Absorb/Dissipate Energy

[Illuminatus Primus]

1) Vympel obviously thinks that Clone Wars is too Jedi-wank.

Yup. I mean, there comes a time when "where the fuck was this when [insert event x"] is a valid question- it's a bullshit question when it comes to most things, but the feats of Mace Windu, Yoda, and even Obi-Wan are so out of tune with what we see in the films that I just have to shake my head. I mean, it's not like anything had changed in between AotC and CW to somehow increase their abilities immensely. If CW Ch 12 & 13 are to be believed, Mace Windu could've taken out the droids in the arena by himself with a wave of his hand. It's obviously not meant to be taken as absolute direct observation.

The story is awknowledged IIRC to be "in-universe" sourced from a child's recounts/drawings who witnessed the battle.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Qui Gon never pulled a stunt like the one mentioned about Obi Wan deflecting Droideka fire with his hand. They stood on the Trade Federation battleship, only two droidekas and Qui Gon never even attempted such a feat.

Same in the arena, we did not see a single instance of a Jedi deflecting any kind of blaster fire let alone droideka rapid fire bursts and there were a buttload of masters in that arena including Jedi #2 Mace WIndu and he didn't even try that little stunt. The master killed by Jango could have used that little stunt to save his life. I find it hard to believe that Obi Wan is that much more powerful than some of his fellow masters - especially those who have bene masters far longer than he was.

Why would they bother? The concentration and energy expenditure is doubtless much greater than simply deflecting with a lightsabre, so they prefer to rely on that. They would tire much more quickly relying on absorption abilities to deflect the blasterfire. The master who Jango killed was relying on his sabre. He was apparently unprepared for the recoil from Jango's pistols (and his powers are doubtlessly clouded as he standard ten feet from a to-him-unknown Dark Lord of the Sith) and by the time his lightsabre was jerked away from a protective stance, he was shot before he could possibly drop the sabre and block with his hands.

The Mace thing is just BS.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'm curious about how if you can bring yourself to believe (or at least not bitch) that a silly crystal or even "Meditation Sphere" like I heard somewhere could amplify raw Force draw enough so that it can rip a core out of a Sun, why are you particularly against unaided Force induction (from the son of the Chosen, no less) being able to accomplish a feat that's smaller by many orders of magnitude?

For the last fucking time, learn the difference between an "aided' and "unaided" feat. I am talking about the ability to perform feats without the existence of (particularily large) stationary devices. THAT is why I am not including the other examples (such as the massassi temple feat from Darksaber.)

And since when did "Chosen/Son of the Chosen" suddenly become a cop out for excusing wanktastic ability?

[Connor MacLeod]

And The Mace on Dantooine bit where he's disassembling droids by the hundreds with a wave of his hand - that would have been real nice to use at the arena but I guess Mace must have been holding back then right?

Gee, and with the ability to perform thousands-plus gee accelerations on his own body (both in free fall and in latching onto Zam's airspeeder.) Anakin somehow isn't able to do the same thing? Guess Anakin was holding back too.

[Connor MacLeod]

i would explain all of this too you, but i have no idea what u r talkin about.

As I see it:
1) Vympel obviously thinks that Clone Wars is too Jedi-wank.
2) Connor points out that Jedi-wanking is nothing new and lists examples.
3) I point out that there are cases where there is even more Jedi-wanking, yet he doesn't seem to mind those.
4) Connor tries to explain it away by mentioning the Sith machinery.
5) I'm wondering why if he can accept uberwank with machinery, why can't he accept ordinary wank without machinery.

Does that help?

I like the part where you deliberately ignored the difference between "aided" and "unaided" ability.

[Connor MacLeod]

Yup. I mean, there comes a time when "where the fuck was this when [insert event x"] is a valid question- it's a bullshit question when it comes to most things, but the feats of Mace Windu, Yoda, and even Obi-Wan are so out of tune with what we see in the films that I just have to shake my head. I mean, it's not like anything had changed in between AotC and CW to somehow increase their abilities immensely.

Have you even bothered to measure the abilities in the cartoon (at least the first one. The Second part maybe..)? Particularily the ones with Mace? (For example, his "force speed" is about a couple hundred gees, not substantially more than what was displayed in TPM, and clearly less than the "thousands of gees" Anakin displays in AOTC.)

If CW Ch 12 & 13 are to be believed, Mace Windu could've taken out the droids in the arena by himself with a wave of his hand. It's obviously not meant to be taken as absolute direct observation.

You do realize just how absurdly subjective this sounds, don't you?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Gee, and with the ability to perform thousands-plus gee accelerations on his own body (both in free fall and in latching onto Zam's airspeeder.) Anakin somehow isn't able to do the same thing? Guess Anakin was holding back too.

I find doing that to hundreds of different man-sized articles that are not your own person should be more difficult/impractical.

[Connor MacLeod]

Gee, and with the ability to perform thousands-plus gee accelerations on his own body (both in free fall and in latching onto Zam's airspeeder.) Anakin somehow isn't able to do the same thing? Guess Anakin was holding back too.

I find doing that to hundreds of different man-sized articles that are not your own person should be more difficult/impractical.

You don't have to "grab" or "manipulate" individual droids - use a Force-shove/Fore wall to shove them all aside-away (even knocking them off their feet would prove advantageous, even if it doesn't damage/destroy them outright.) Alternately, why not just pick up a few battle droids and use them as battering rams agianst all the others?

[Illuminatus Primus]

You don't have to "grab" or "manipulate" individual droids - use a Force-shove/Fore wall to shove them all aside-away (even knocking them off their feet would prove advantageous, even if it doesn't damage/destroy them outright.) Alternately, why not just pick up a few battle droids and use them as battering rams agianst all the others?

I don't know if we've ever seen a Force push that "wide."

However SPOILER the way Yoda and Palpatine throw those Senate pods around, I think that could take apart a hundred battle droids or so; I figure Mace and them just didn't bother because the super battle droids were too durable and they knew more would just come; using conventional tactics increased their endurance, which was crucial to survival.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

For the last fucking time, learn the difference between an "aided' and "unaided" feat.

I understand the difference fully. What I'm still not fully comprehending is why you place so much importance on whether it was "aided", though you have no idea of the amplification ratios.

Connor: Man, Luke did X. Wank! Wank!
Me: He had a Sith peanut in his pocket, don't you remember?
Connor: Oh yeah. That makes it all OK then.

I like the part where you deliberately ignored the difference between "aided" and "unaided" ability.

That was Part 5! Please re-read.