Are there any linguists in the house?

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-04-26 06:32pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Virtually all expressions come from peoples' names. "Crap," or "To take a crap" and all of its various offshoots from from Thomas Crapper (inventer of the toilet).

Dude, the inventor of the toilet wasn't Thomas Crapper. It was some English guy (I forget his name). It's a joke/myth, man. :p

SCRawl · Post by **SCRawl** » 2005-04-26 06:41pm

How about to be "hoist by your own petard". I found the precise meaning using Google, and couldn't say it better myself:

A petard is an explosive device used to break down doors or walls. Hence - hoist on ones... Used by Shakespeare in Hamlet 'For tis the sport to have the enginer / Hoist with his owne petar'. From the French 'péter' - to fart.

I'd like to know the etymology of the expression "to fuck the dog" (i.e. to be lazy and do nothing). I can imagine a rather sinister (i.e. left-handed) story behind that one....

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2005-04-26 07:08pm

To pull a wilson

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2005-04-26 07:12pm

Also "to be like captain Aranha".

Post by **Kuja** » 2005-04-26 08:24pm

"Straight arrow" or "Straight shooter."

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2005-04-26 10:36pm

While not metaphorical, Pwned (if it were to be considered a word) would be quite incomprehensable if you did not know of the QWERTY Typeboard (or have a good guess at the nature of how a typo entered the vocabulary) and the word Owned.

Anything involving "Alice In Wonderland" or "Wonderland" for an unreal world or just something plain weird would qualify. Same with "Follow(ing) the White Rabbit" or any other character in that book.

To "Blackball" or deny admittance/expel comes from the practice of using white and black marbles as secret ballot method in older fraternities and clubs.

Getting "Pink Slipped" or "Canned" in the same vein for being fired refers to the pink termination notices stereotypical of getting fired, and canned to (?) getting thrown in a trash can, perhaps? Maybe being "sealed", which in turn comes from something like sealing an envelope?

Now I'm just guessing wildly, but you can see if it doesn't make sense to someone who grew up with the language...

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2005-04-26 11:17pm

Most days of the week are named after Teutonic or Roman gods.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2005-04-26 11:56pm

Kinda getting off-topic here. Most of these later examples are simply things bearing culturally-significant names and their direct meaning isn't symbolic; you could just translate them directly and skim over the references.

Now if you'll excuse me, Captain Ahab has to go hunt his whale.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2005-04-27 04:35am

Gordian Knot
Alamo
Uncle Sam

If China was another planet, I don't believe a universal translator would be able to translate these:

"Horse Tiger"
sloppy
"Push knock"
deep consideration
"Apricot altar"
the sum of educationers
"Apricot forest"
the sum of medical doctors
"River and lake"
Sorry I don't even know how to properly translate this.

And I don't wanna get into the idioms and "omitted sayings".....

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2005-04-27 09:43am

Ted C wrote:Most days of the week are named after Teutonic or Roman gods.

I recently noticed that the order of the names seems to be quite consistent throughout different languages., which I found to be singularly fascinating...

Moon-Mars-Mercury-Jupiter-Venus-Saturn-Sun

English keeps that order with a few Teutonic substitutions...

And the months have historical significance too. It bugs me no end that September, October, November and December are the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th months respectively. Damn Julius and Augustus Ceasar! Damn them to Hades!

Morilore · Post by **Morilore** » 2005-04-27 12:39pm

Lusankya wrote:And the months have historical significance too. It bugs me no end that September, October, November and December are the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th months respectively. Damn Julius and Augustus Ceasar! Damn them to Hades!

Dude, you think that was the point?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-04-27 01:28pm

Should this thread be stickied for future reference?

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2005-04-27 01:49pm

Also, the word quaranteen comes from the italian word for fourty (or possibly fourty four) and references the fact that in the time of the black death cities would disallow anyoneone from entering for a fourty (or fourty four) day period, because they thought this would make them safe from the plague.

Il Saggiatore · Post by **Il Saggiatore** » 2005-04-27 01:57pm

speaker-to-trolls wrote:Also, the word quaranteen comes from the italian word for fourty (or possibly fourty four)...

Quarantena = Quaranteen.
Quaranta = Forty (40).
Quarantina = Approximately forty (~40).

Il Saggiatore · Post by **Il Saggiatore** » 2005-04-27 01:59pm

Il Saggiatore wrote:
speaker-to-trolls wrote:Also, the word quaranteen comes from the italian word for fourty (or possibly fourty four)...
Quarantena = Quaranteen.
Quaranta = Forty (40).
Quarantina = Approximately forty (~40).

I forgot: quarantena is also an alternative spelling for quarantina.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2005-04-27 02:33pm

that raises an interesting question - when writing stories set in universes not our own, say, Star Wars -
would one refer to "pyrrhic victories"? let's say in a characters conversation? would it be assumed to be a translation of a equivalent metaphor?
or would it be better to invent a totally new word?

same for aircraft manuvers? would a plane in a universe where Immelman never existed have "Immelman" turns?

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2005-04-27 07:39pm

Utsanomiko wrote:Kinda getting off-topic here. Most of these later examples are simply things bearing culturally-significant names and their direct meaning isn't symbolic; you could just translate them directly and skim over the references.

You could do the same with "wossname and wossname in the ocean" or whatever. Meaning? Teamwork, monster-killing or whatever the heck it was supposed to mean.

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2005-04-27 08:11pm

To muse over something comes from the ancient Greek Muses, little dieties of inspiration, or something similar.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2005-04-27 08:48pm

AMX wrote:Correction: Pandora delivered the box, she didn't open it.
That task was left to Epimetheus (brother of the famous Prometheus).

Depends on the version of the myth. I've read versions where Pandora opens it as soon as she sees Epimetheus, where she opens it because the gods gave her curiosity, and versions where Epimetheus opens the box.

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2005-04-27 09:26pm

AniThyng wrote:that raises an interesting question - when writing stories set in universes not our own, say, Star Wars -
would one refer to "pyrrhic victories"? let's say in a characters conversation? would it be assumed to be a translation of a equivalent metaphor?
or would it be better to invent a totally new word?

same for aircraft manuvers? would a plane in a universe where Immelman never existed have "Immelman" turns?

Well if I were translating from Chinese to English, I'd translate all of those damned idioms into an appropriate English metaphor, because directly translating them would make no sense whatsoever. I don't see why it would be different translating from Starwarsese to English.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-04-27 11:05pm

Satyriasis and Nymphomania should be mentioned, from greek myth, there (satyrs could be biblical, not sure, i know they're mentioned once in reference to babylon).

This is actually quite old English, but "Helling potatoes" refers to unearthing potatoes, derived from the norse goddess of the underworld, Hel.

There's also the posh expletive "by Jove!" which is one of Jupiter's names.

Soul, something has a lifeforce, feeling, potency. Soul music. Souls come from the same root as Psyche, the greek goddess of the soul, who lead a dualistic life.

Psyche, meaning mind, again from the greek goddess I just mentioned.

Serendipity - from an ancient persian fairy tale, The Three Princes of Serendip, who made such discoveries as characterised by what it means.

Hermaphrodite - greco-roman myth again, hermaphroditus, the son of Hermes and Aphrodite, who became united in one body with the nymph Salmacis.

"Speak of the devil" - i suspect this is to do with summoning rituals, or it could be just medieval superstition.

Spare the rod and spoil the child - biblical.

Sour grapes - biblical again.

A drop in the bucket - biblical again.

Post by **Edi** » 2005-04-28 03:25am

The phrase "come hell or high water" comes from a medieval form of torture. Suspected devil-worshippers would be required to stick their hand in boiling water, and it was believed an innocent man would not be harmed by such an action. Depending on the severity of the suspected offenses, the level of water could be as high as almost up to the shoulder, hence "come hell or high water", as they were essentially the same.

Edi

Karza · Post by **Karza** » 2005-04-28 04:12am

"As cold as in the hell of Russians."

AFAIK used only in Finland, and means the weather is cold.

I think it's a reference to frozen corpses of enemy soldiers during the Winter War.

Penfold · Post by **Penfold** » 2005-04-28 05:04am

"Cross to bear" refers to a burden someone must take alone, and refers to the Crucifixion of Jesus.
"Adam's apple" is a nickname for the thyroid gland, and refers to the story of Adam and Eve.
"Holy Grail" is a desired object, and refers to King Arthur's search for the cup Jesus used at the Last Supper.
"Fiddling while Rome Burns" is wasting time when there are important matters at hand, and apparently something Nero Caesar did.
Anything refering to the playing of violins is a sarcastic reference to the violin music that often accompanies sad scenes in movies.

And more brand names:

Kleenex - facial tissue
Xerox - used as a verb in place of photocopy
Dumpster - the large trash bins outside buildings
Hoover - I've heard this is used as a verb in some countries in place of vacuum
Mc[whatever] - used to describe anything convenient but low-quality, just like the food from the original Mc[whatever], McDonald's

I've caught myself saying Starbuck's when talking about any coffee house, but I'm not sure if other people do it.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-04-28 05:10am

Actually, the Adam's Apple is a nickname for the larynx or voice box in Layman's terms. And Hoover refers to vacuum cleaners, yes, because of that company being so prolific in the field.