Federation Overcentralization

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2002-11-18 12:17pm

As most of us know, the UFP's major facilites (Utopia planetia shipyard, Starfleet Academy, Starfleet HQ, etc.) are located on Earth or in the Sol system. Is this due to a lack of resources to develop similar facilites elsewhere, or is it due to a mercantilist view of their colonies, using them only for acquiring resources? I think that UFP could very likely be treating its member systems like Britain treated its colonies.

Failed Glory · Post by **Failed Glory** » 2002-11-18 12:33pm

I twould seem that less-developed systems "specialize" in certain areas. Either research, medical tech, vacation resorts, antimatter or other resource production.

However, I doubt that the entire set of ships that comprise SF were built in the the Sol system. It just seems that Earth is one of the few systems that is focused on all of the industrious, political, and research facets.

I'm sure that might have something to do with the fact that the UFP is centerd there.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-11-18 12:46pm

I would say it is because Earth is the only area we ever see. Look at the comission and start dates for the ships. 4 years seems to be average. And they can produce over 40 per year. No way the few shipyards we see at earth can do it. So there must be more, we just don't see them.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-11-18 01:36pm

Mars has its share of shipyards also Starbase 74 may be able to construct small ships like Frigates and runabouts

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-11-18 01:38pm

My opinion would be that, there are selective factors at work in ST (the same is true in SW, how many times is Tatoonie reference

). We never see any truly important planets outside of the respective species homeworlds. The Federation has existed what 300 years? Surely the early colony worlds should be on par with Earth by the 24 century. If they are not it would speak very poorly of the Fed economy.

The point really is that the shows center on exploration, and you don't go exploring in your own backyard. Thus when we see Fed planets in the shows we relatively newly minted colonies.

Honestly I would expect that they have a feudal or manorial system. The important planets (the lords) control or oversee the new colonies (the serfs) produce the: minerals, produce, and raw material that are then sent on to majors worlds to be turned into finished goods.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-11-18 02:53pm

Setzer wrote:As most of us know, the UFP's major facilites (Utopia planetia shipyard, Starfleet Academy, Starfleet HQ, etc.) are located on Earth or in the Sol system. Is this due to a lack of resources to develop similar facilites elsewhere, or is it due to a mercantilist view of their colonies, using them only for acquiring resources? I think that UFP could very likely be treating its member systems like Britain treated its colonies.

I think it's do to a stupid creative staff. If they spent as much time on developing the background info for the Federation as they do on technobabble, the Federation could be as colorful as the old Republic.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-18 05:10pm

paladin wrote:
Setzer wrote:As most of us know, the UFP's major facilites (Utopia planetia shipyard, Starfleet Academy, Starfleet HQ, etc.) are located on Earth or in the Sol system. Is this due to a lack of resources to develop similar facilites elsewhere, or is it due to a mercantilist view of their colonies, using them only for acquiring resources? I think that UFP could very likely be treating its member systems like Britain treated its colonies.
I think it's do to a stupid creative staff. If they spent as much time on developing the background info for the Federation as they do on technobabble, the Federation could be as colorful as the old Republic.

Too bad they don't.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-18 07:11pm

Perhaps because Earth the military arm of the Federation (vast majority of SF) so they'd have the shipyards.

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-11-18 07:40pm

Once again our nationalism and xenopohbia has taken course and we are paranoid and have to keep the power where us human can control it!!!!!

The sad fact of the universe....were still racist

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-18 07:54pm

Mike_6002 wrote:Once again our nationalism and xenopohbia has taken course and we are paranoid and have to keep the power where us human can control it!!!!!

The sad fact of the universe....were still racist

Or the 149 other races want US to do the dirty work.

Or just because Star Fleet was an Earth force first. The second were the Vulcans who have some officers.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-18 08:05pm

I think it's an ethnocentric statement about the Galaxy. If the humans don't build it, chances are it's not going to get done. I find it impossible to believe that NONE of the other races in ST had a major orbital shipyard before they joined the UFP (particularly since the Vulcans were so far ahead of the Terrans for so long).

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-18 08:12pm

I think it's just the writers have been always focused *away* from the major planets of the Federation, where major facilities would be located. We haven't heard about non-Solar facilities much because we haven't been to any of the other major Federation homeworlds... save for Vulcan, and they're a bunch of pacifists.

I think you're all reading too much into it. Seriously, you think the TNG writers have thought it out *that* much?

More likely than not it's the result of a *lack* of thought.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2002-11-19 08:24am

Typhonis 1 wrote:Mars has its share of shipyards also Starbase 74 may be able to construct small ships like Frigates and runabouts

I said on Earth or in the Sol system. And as for starbase 74, have we ever seen it do anything like that? Did the TM's say anything about it?

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-11-19 10:09am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Mike_6002 wrote:Once again our nationalism and xenopohbia has taken course and we are paranoid and have to keep the power where us human can control it!!!!!

The sad fact of the universe....were still racist

Or the 149 other races want US to do the dirty work.

Or just because Star Fleet was an Earth force first. The second were the Vulcans who have some officers.

Vuclans are like the token Black guy, there just there to create the illusion of diversty

Hmmm......us doing the dirty work eh!!!!! Make me want to BDZ those 149 spieces

The Federation is to overcenteralized, nuke Earth and the Feds fall like a house of playing cards

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-11-19 01:30pm

No but I got the idea from Federation and Empire ,yes games arent canon but neither are the TMs,Which state that other than the main shipyrd in your captal you can build fighters and frigates at your starbases

Failed Glory · Post by **Failed Glory** » 2002-11-19 04:11pm

Perhaps the fact that the Federation, nor many of it's Alpha quadrant contemporaries have the industrial development equivalent to that seen in the SW galaxy is another point of a less-developed civilization.

ST has not yet had the time required to develop equivalent technology, nor to fully develop many systems other than homeworlds.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-11-19 05:53pm

In the DS9 book Anti-Matter they were building an Ambassador Class ship on Bajor. As such I surmise that there is a ship construction facilities in most systems. But the most extensive building and R'n'D seem to be in the Sol system.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-19 06:05pm

Anyways while there may be minor shipyards everyone, major shipyards are only in key systems.

Ingersoll · Post by **Ingersoll** » 2002-11-19 08:15pm

1. I count three shipyards outside the Sol system in this:
http://www.st-spike.de/ships/dedicationplaques.htm

2. In the mirror universe, DS9 built a Defiant off of one of the docking ports.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-19 09:18pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Perhaps because Earth the military arm of the Federation (vast majority of SF) so they'd have the shipyards.

AH! You have violated B&B's First Law of Star Trek by suggesting the Federation has a military! They are an "exploration fleet." Defense is the least important among their many duties!

And it shows, in their pathetic grasp on tactics and strategy.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-21 12:16am

The Dark wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Perhaps because Earth the military arm of the Federation (vast majority of SF) so they'd have the shipyards.
AH! You have violated B&B's First Law of Star Trek by suggesting the Federation has a military! They are an "exploration fleet." Defense is the least important among their many duties!

And it shows, in their pathetic grasp on tactics and strategy.

I think this was a Gene Roddenberry theme.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-11-21 12:47am

[quote="Uraniun235] I think this was a Gene Roddenberry theme.[/quote]

Sad but true...mainly because TNG was his personal vision without people mucking it up as he said at times(poor Coon...)

bozman · Post by **bozman** » 2002-11-21 03:44am

Yes, it was Gene's theme. But if it's not military, then why do we see Captains, Admirals, etc.?

johnmarkley · Post by **johnmarkley** » 2002-11-21 04:12pm

bozman wrote:Yes, it was Gene's theme. But if it's not military, then why do we see Captains, Admirals, etc.?

Salvation Army in space!

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-22 12:08am

bozman wrote:Yes, it was Gene's theme. But if it's not military, then why do we see Captains, Admirals, etc.?

Why make up your own rank system when you can use one already made?

One would need a chain of command for even an exploratory fleet.

And I think that the "exploration is our focus" is being read wrong. It's not that they're not there to defend. I think it's meant to say "We are so rarely called on to defend that it is not what we do most of the time."

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Federation Overcentralization

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