Hellblazer in Hellmouth

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-04-28 01:56am

Ok, all john wants is some drinks, and he has something that the watchers want....

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-04-28 06:40am

The only real question is how many end up dead and eternally damned

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-04-28 10:15am

ggs wrote:The only real question is how many end up dead and eternally damned

and does he score with any of the slayer chicks?

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-04-28 01:33pm

Darth_Zod wrote:
ggs wrote:The only real question is how many end up dead and eternally damned
and does he score with any of the slayer chicks?

I bet there are some comments on how the hellmouth really isnt that important since all the big stuff can crossover to Earth when ever they care to anyway. And the higher ups of hell wouldnt allow the type of Hell on Earth card which so often gets played as a problem in BtVS-verse, simply because they dont want to provoke the Angels & Co.

Bonus points if John gets trapped in a room of Bad Things(tm) and they all go insane/crazy or drop dead via some magic we(the reader) never quite get to see.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2005-04-28 02:40pm

Well, first of all, John would have to get used to a Cthulhu-Based magic system instead of a Judeo-Christian Magic system. He can't just walk over there, he'd have to literally cross over there.

I keep TELLING people: THere is about as much evidence for the Judeo-Christianity in the Buffyverse as there is in the real world. And in a world Like Buffy's, that's NOT a good thing!

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2005-04-28 02:46pm

Majin Gojira wrote:Well, first of all, John would have to get used to a Cthulhu-Based magic system instead of a Judeo-Christian Magic system. He can't just walk over there, he'd have to literally cross over there.

I keep TELLING people: THere is about as much evidence for the Judeo-Christianity in the Buffyverse as there is in the real world. And in a world Like Buffy's, that's NOT a good thing!

I'd have thought that crosses and holy water being an effective deterrant to the undead are a little more in favour of its existence than nothing at all.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2005-04-28 03:06pm

Gee, and that couldn't be just normal Magic instead of a sign from on high? Blessed objects having a nasty effect on Vamps and nothing else doesn't support an all powerful God. Just that blessings burn vampires. Nothing more.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-04-28 04:56pm

Majin Gojira wrote:Well, first of all, John would have to get used to a Cthulhu-Based magic system instead of a Judeo-Christian Magic system. He can't just walk over there, he'd have to literally cross over there.

Constantine's magic experience is not all Judeo-Christian based.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2005-04-28 06:27pm

didn't we have this a couple of weeks ago?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-04-28 06:36pm

Majin Gojira wrote:Well, first of all, John would have to get used to a Cthulhu-Based magic system instead of a Judeo-Christian Magic system. He can't just walk over there, he'd have to literally cross over there.

I keep TELLING people: THere is about as much evidence for the Judeo-Christianity in the Buffyverse as there is in the real world. And in a world Like Buffy's, that's NOT a good thing!

read hellblazer sometime. constantine goes up against -alot- more than judeo christian stuff. he's faced off against all kinds of nasties from aztec death gods to african hunger demons. and the op never specified which version.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-04-28 06:44pm

Darth_Zod wrote:read hellblazer sometime. constantine goes up against -alot- more than judeo christian stuff. he's faced off against all kinds of nasties from aztec death gods to african hunger demons. and the op never specified which version.

The title of the thread does say Hellblazer.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-04-28 06:45pm

neoolong wrote:
Darth_Zod wrote:read hellblazer sometime. constantine goes up against -alot- more than judeo christian stuff. he's faced off against all kinds of nasties from aztec death gods to african hunger demons. and the op never specified which version.
The title of the thread does say Hellblazer.

eh. still helps if it specifies comic or movie version, but feh. either way works.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2005-04-28 07:38pm

Appologies, but I've only read 2 Constantinte TPB so far, and both of them deal only with the Judeo-Christian Aspect (they were BTW:
"Dangerous Habits" and "Son of Man").

I'm sure he'll be able to adapt to the new environs eventually, it's just a mater of adapting.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2005-04-28 07:43pm

(Re-reads the scenarios)

At what point of Buffy is this set? Before or after her ties to the council are cut?

If not, I assume it's something Giles wants...

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-04-29 10:58am

Majin Gojira wrote:Appologies, but I've only read 2 Constantinte TPB so far, and both of them deal only with the Judeo-Christian Aspect (they were BTW:
"Dangerous Habits" and "Son of Man").

I'm sure he'll be able to adapt to the new environs eventually, it's just a mater of adapting.

check out all his engines, rare cuts and original sins. they feature some particularly nasty, decidedly non christian demonic nasties.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-04-29 01:04pm

Darth_Zod wrote:
Majin Gojira wrote:Appologies, but I've only read 2 Constantinte TPB so far, and both of them deal only with the Judeo-Christian Aspect (they were BTW:
"Dangerous Habits" and "Son of Man").

I'm sure he'll be able to adapt to the new environs eventually, it's just a mater of adapting.
check out all his engines, rare cuts and original sins. they feature some particularly nasty, decidedly non christian demonic nasties.

Later in the series, we finally get told John is a "magus". Which typically involves scary amounts of magical ability.

For example;
He visits an alternative reality were his twin lived at birth and he didnt(in his universe it is the other way around) the 2 then merge an continue on.

Another example is him chucking out all the evil stuff in himself into a body made out of mud which then fools a demon who has a claim on his soul into releasing a few million or so innocent children damned to hell for some reason.

While in prisoner isolation sitting on his ass in a USA jail, John makes the prisoners break free and take control of the jail. When a FBI agent goes in, it looks like an Cthulhu-style Old One had gotten loose.

Only the truely insane/desperate interact with with John Constantine.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2005-04-29 01:18pm

When John Constantine first appeared, in Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, he was dealing with the repercussions of the Crisis on Infinity Earths. That eventually led him, and his allies, to face of with the Ultimate Evil. He's run with guys like Dr. Fate and the Specter. Despite some of his amazingly un-epic adventures Constantine is not one to be fucked with.

Constantine in Sunnydale would probably be the equivalent of a vacation for him. If an ex-girlfriend of his is in town she'll probably die. Or if he hooks up with some girl, she'll probably die, forcing Constantine to take justice into his own hands.

The man could probably fuck over the Senior Partners, if he were so inclined.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2005-04-29 01:21pm

Hmm...I think I'll pick those up...now, if only I had money...

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2005-04-29 01:23pm

Majin Gojira wrote:Hmm...I think I'll pick those up...now, if only I had money...

They're my favorite Constantine, next to Gaiman's Constantine. I prefer Moore's Constantine because he's so epic. Later stories seemed to make him so petty and fucked up I sometimes wondered how he managed to get his pants on in the morning.

I think Gaiman manages to strike a better balance between epic Constantine and monstrous Constantine.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-04-29 01:53pm

Crom wrote:The man could probably fuck over the Senior Partners, if he were so inclined.

I doubt there is any 'probably' about it, but rather them doing something stupid enough to be noticed by him. Like say killing/maining yet another girlfirend.

Later stories seemed to make him so petty and fucked up I sometimes wondered how he managed to get his pants on in the morning.

The later stories really do push the incompetent angle more than the epic.

The latest few editions (206 is the latest I have read*cought*aquired*cought*) definitely push a rather incompetent John Constantine.

Another example of some of the screwball stuff he has pulled off; turning off his central nervous system to avoid being possessed(The Swamp Thing did the breathing & pumping the blood around for him to keep the body alive). However the leadup to that wasnt the best.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-04-29 08:18pm

ggs wrote:Later in the series, we finally get told John is a "magus". Which typically involves scary amounts of magical ability.

Interestingly enough, he actually has no real power. Zatanna says as much when she sees a roomful of extremely powerful beings, all capable of destroying him, back down from John.

He's just so damned good that he doesn't really need innate ability.

Tzeentch · Post by **Tzeentch** » 2005-04-29 08:44pm

Crom wrote:
Majin Gojira wrote:Hmm...I think I'll pick those up...now, if only I had money...
They're my favorite Constantine, next to Gaiman's Constantine. I prefer Moore's Constantine because he's so epic. Later stories seemed to make him so petty and fucked up I sometimes wondered how he managed to get his pants on in the morning.

I think Gaiman manages to strike a better balance between epic Constantine and monstrous Constantine.

I kind of think that the two Constantines are really flip sides of the same coin - John is really good at manipulation, seducing women, screwing people/demons over, and getting out by the seat of his pants. On the other hand, however, he has a lot of trouble living a normal life, sustaining relationships, protecting people he loves. I love the very petty, very british nature of the smaller-scale arcs. When one man defeats demon kings and gods too often, it sometimes skirts character wanking.

I've been reading through hellblazer from the beginning (I'm well into Ennison's run right now), and my favorite storyline is The Family Man, which for some perverse reason has never been collected. You know how in Sandman, at the serial killer convention, the Family Man can't make it? That's because he's busy with Constantine. There's no magic in this story; no demons, no monsters. Just people, and the the things they do to each other. In some ways, Constantine is out of his league.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-04-30 12:34am

neoolong wrote:
ggs wrote:Later in the series, we finally get told John is a "magus". Which typically involves scary amounts of magical ability.
Interestingly enough, he actually has no real power. Zatanna says as much when she sees a roomful of extremely powerful beings, all capable of destroying him, back down from John.

The whole "magus" thing is really about crazy amounts of knowledge and the ability to use it. Knowledge is power, and John has knowledge in spades.

Thats his real power, not his magical abilities(which he has).

He's just so damned good that he doesn't really need innate ability.

He will often resort to using his magical powers as an utter last resort. John has truely mastered the fine art of delegation, and is awesome at getting other people todo the legwork for him

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-04-30 12:54am

why risk your life casting a spell that only the ten most powerful mages on earth can cast safely when your boffing on of the ten most powerful mages on earth....

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-04-30 12:59am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:why risk your life casting a spell that only the ten most powerful mages on earth can cast safely when your boffing on of the ten most powerful mages on earth....

Exactly!