Serenity (Firefly Movie) Trailer Now On-line [SPOILERS]

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Il Saggiatore wrote:
Coyote wrote: (My theory on Book)
Book is a representative from another faction, either within the gov't or a anti-gov't group, that is spying on River. Whether it is to protect her, evaluate her, or potentially kill her I can't place yet. He's biding his time and waiting to make a move.
Didn't he get on board of Serenity before the Tam Bros showed up?
Book and Simon Tam bought their places on Serenity on the same day. They were both at the Eavesdown Docks on Persephone at the same time. Now if Book's story is to be believed, he was in a monastary on Persephone for years before the Tams arrived, but that was never independently confirmed (never questioned, either).

I sincerely doubt Book is Alliance. He's had any number of opportunities to turn in River, a person the Alliance desparately wants, and he hasn't taken any of them. If he really is working undercover for someone (and is not, as I suspect, a FORMER someone important who became a preacher), it's not the Alliance government.
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Post by Alex Moon »

Apparently there's going to be a sneak preview of the unpolished movie here in Denver on the 5th. Should I get tickets?
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Alex Moon wrote:Apparently there's going to be a sneak preview of the unpolished movie here in Denver on the 5th. Should I get tickets?
Never mind. Tickets are already sold out.
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Post by Anarchist Bunny »

RedImperator wrote:
Il Saggiatore wrote:
Coyote wrote: (My theory on Book)
Book is a representative from another faction, either within the gov't or a anti-gov't group, that is spying on River. Whether it is to protect her, evaluate her, or potentially kill her I can't place yet. He's biding his time and waiting to make a move.
Didn't he get on board of Serenity before the Tam Bros showed up?
Book and Simon Tam bought their places on Serenity on the same day. They were both at the Eavesdown Docks on Persephone at the same time. Now if Book's story is to be believed, he was in a monastary on Persephone for years before the Tams arrived, but that was never independently confirmed (never questioned, either).

I sincerely doubt Book is Alliance. He's had any number of opportunities to turn in River, a person the Alliance desparately wants, and he hasn't taken any of them. If he really is working undercover for someone (and is not, as I suspect, a FORMER someone important who became a preacher), it's not the Alliance government.
I never said he was still Alliance, atleast not actively. He has to be Alliance with the response he got from the Alliance ship. But I do think he had some hand in one happened to River, nothing concrete to suggest this, just a feeling.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Alex Moon wrote:
Alex Moon wrote:Apparently there's going to be a sneak preview of the unpolished movie here in Denver on the 5th. Should I get tickets?
Never mind. Tickets are already sold out.
Tickets sold out 4 hours after they went on sale for every theater. I'm going to the screening in Sac.
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Post by Il Saggiatore »

RedImperator wrote:
Il Saggiatore wrote:
Coyote wrote: (My theory on Book)
Book is a representative from another faction, either within the gov't or a anti-gov't group, that is spying on River. Whether it is to protect her, evaluate her, or potentially kill her I can't place yet. He's biding his time and waiting to make a move.
Didn't he get on board of Serenity before the Tam Bros showed up?
Book and Simon Tam bought their places on Serenity on the same day. They were both at the Eavesdown Docks on Persephone at the same time.
Alright, but Book was the first person Kaylee got on board.
We see Simon and his cargo only later, right before take-off.
And based on what Simon said about choosing Serenity, there is no reason to believe that Book had anything to do about getting him on board of that ship.
RedImperator wrote: Now if Book's story is to be believed, he was in a monastary on Persephone for years before the Tams arrived, but that was never independently confirmed (never questioned, either).

I sincerely doubt Book is Alliance. He's had any number of opportunities to turn in River, a person the Alliance desparately wants, and he hasn't taken any of them. If he really is working undercover for someone (and is not, as I suspect, a FORMER someone important who became a preacher), it's not the Alliance government.
I don't think that he is still Alliance or working undercover for anybody, but rather "a FORMER someone important who became a preacher". Maybe he had a crisis of conscience and decided to turn to religion (a bit of a stereotype bad guy turning preacher).
In the past as "someone important" in the Alliance, he might have heard or come into contact with the program that dealt with River.
If you remember in "Objects in Space", Book seems to have unfriendly thoughts about River ("I don't give a hump if she is innocent!"). It appears that he knows more about River than he is saying (alright, this is trivial comment).

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Post by andrewgpaul »

I had heard a theory that Book was Alliance commander at Serenity Valley.
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Post by RedImperator »

Il Saggiatore wrote:
RedImperator wrote: I sincerely doubt Book is Alliance. He's had any number of opportunities to turn in River, a person the Alliance desparately wants, and he hasn't taken any of them. If he really is working undercover for someone (and is not, as I suspect, a FORMER someone important who became a preacher), it's not the Alliance government.
I don't think that he is still Alliance or working undercover for anybody, but rather "a FORMER someone important who became a preacher". Maybe he had a crisis of conscience and decided to turn to religion (a bit of a stereotype bad guy turning preacher).
In the past as "someone important" in the Alliance, he might have heard or come into contact with the program that dealt with River.
If you remember in "Objects in Space", Book seems to have unfriendly thoughts about River ("I don't give a hump if she is innocent!"). It appears that he knows more about River than he is saying (alright, this is trivial comment).
Or he could have just been just as fed up with her craziness as everyone else. Maybe more so, because he's morally bound not to vent his frustration about her. Remember, her own brother was having unfriendly thoughts about her in the same episode.

Book was definitely somebody, and most likely somebody Alliance. He couldn't have been a public figure of any kind, because there'd be no way he could expect to keep his identity a secret. Remember, not even the commander of Magellan knew who he was on sight--it wasn't until he scanned Book's identcard that he realized he was important. And he still might not have known who Book was--the card might just have said, "Give this man special treatment, by order of the President of the Alliance", or somesuch thing.

There's no evidence at all he knows anything about the psychic program. It's hard to believe a man who was unwilling to use lethal force against gangsters who had captured and were in the process of torturing Mal would know about a program in which children are subjected to horrible experiments and not say or do anything about it. Furthermore, this is a program so secret that the Blue Hands Men killed at least half a dozen Alliance marshalls, including one officer, simply because they'd talked to her and Simon while they were in custody. Would they let someone who knew anything about the program just walk away and join the priesthood? And if not, why wasn't Book as wanted as River and Simon?
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

given book's knowledge and the reactions I always just figured he was like Clint's Preacher in "Pale Rider", or Brother Cadfile.
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Post by RedImperator »

andrewgpaul wrote:I had heard a theory that Book was Alliance commander at Serenity Valley.
So Book was the commander of the other side of the battle about which Mal has been obscessing over for six years, where his cause was crushed, most of his friends and comrades were killed, and after which he's named his ship, and Mal doesn't recognize him? This would be akin to Ulysses S. Grant joining the crew of a tramp freighter crewed by former Confederates after the Civil War, and nobody knows who he is.
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Post by Durandal »

For those who have sufficiently fast Macs, Apple just released high definition versions of the trailer encoded in h.264. Unfortunately, QuickTime 7, which is required to view them, is not yet available for Windows.

The 1080p version is absolutely gorgeous.
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Post by andrewgpaul »

RedImperator wrote:
andrewgpaul wrote:I had heard a theory that Book was Alliance commander at Serenity Valley.
So Book was the commander of the other side of the battle about which Mal has been obscessing over for six years, where his cause was crushed, most of his friends and comrades were killed, and after which he's named his ship, and Mal doesn't recognize him? This would be akin to Ulysses S. Grant joining the crew of a tramp freighter crewed by former Confederates after the Civil War, and nobody knows who he is.
True. Mind you, Mal was only a sergeant in the separatist forces. Depending on how self-publicising the Alliance high command was, it's entirely possible he wouldn't recognise him
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Post by RedImperator »

andrewgpaul wrote:
RedImperator wrote:
andrewgpaul wrote:I had heard a theory that Book was Alliance commander at Serenity Valley.
So Book was the commander of the other side of the battle about which Mal has been obscessing over for six years, where his cause was crushed, most of his friends and comrades were killed, and after which he's named his ship, and Mal doesn't recognize him? This would be akin to Ulysses S. Grant joining the crew of a tramp freighter crewed by former Confederates after the Civil War, and nobody knows who he is.
True. Mind you, Mal was only a sergeant in the separatist forces. Depending on how self-publicising the Alliance high command was, it's entirely possible he wouldn't recognise him
It's possible, but highly unlikely. They were in Serenity Valley for months, going by the deleted scenes. In all that time, they wouldn't have heard of who was commanding the other side?

And anyway, in "Bushwhacked", the Alliance commander, who should have either recognized Book or known who Book was thanks to his identicard if this hypothesis is correct, did NOT address Book as you would think an Alliance officer would address the general who won the battle which won the Unification War. Didn't even ask why a great general like him gave up all his laurels to become an itenerant preacher on a bucket of bolts tramp freighter.
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Post by consequences »

Plastic surgery, biomods, whatever. There's no reason if he's an Alliance higher up for him to be wandering around with his own face.

Lets look at the facts:


Alliance officers who would have left him to die without giving anything remotely resembling a damn immediately made every effort to save his life once they scanned his id.

He's intimately familiar with Alliance federal marshal procedure and territories.

Serious h-t-h skills, knowledge of spec ops procedures, and tracking methods.

His sympathy to River when she picks up on everyone's thoughts/ subvocalisations/whatever towards her can delicately be described as completely nonexistent.
The bounty hunter makes the assessment "That's no Shepherd".


My personal guess would be that he's a member of a rival Alliance intelligence group to the one that messed with River in the first place, and that he's looking to use her to gain advantage over them. Everything that she does that they have to work to cover hurts them, but she isn't worth anything to him except a marker in a game.

Makes as much sense as anything else I've heard, anyway.
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Post by RedImperator »

consequences wrote:Plastic surgery, biomods, whatever. There's no reason if he's an Alliance higher up for him to be wandering around with his own face.

Lets look at the facts:


Alliance officers who would have left him to die without giving anything remotely resembling a damn immediately made every effort to save his life once they scanned his id.
A well-known Alliance higher-up who's had his appearance altered so he can move around anonymously...but he carries his real identicard.
He's intimately familiar with Alliance federal marshal procedure and territories.

Serious h-t-h skills, knowledge of spec ops procedures, and tracking methods.
How many higher-ups actually have these skills? A former Alliance soldier, cop, special-ops guy, I can believe. A former general? No.
His sympathy to River when she picks up on everyone's thoughts/ subvocalisations/whatever towards her can delicately be described as completely nonexistent.
So could Simon's, in the same episode.
The bounty hunter makes the assessment "That's no Shepherd".
And that automatically means, "He's not a Shepherd" instead of "He's more than a Shepherd", how? I'm not contending Book isn't more than what he appears to be. That's a long way from "He's a spy!"
My personal guess would be that he's a member of a rival Alliance intelligence group to the one that messed with River in the first place, and that he's looking to use her to gain advantage over them. Everything that she does that they have to work to cover hurts them, but she isn't worth anything to him except a marker in a game.

Makes as much sense as anything else I've heard, anyway.
Except it runs totally counter to everything we've seen in Book's personality, and is based on pure speculation.
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Post by consequences »

Presumably their ID cards are coded. There could be any number of apparently random data groupings that would actually signal 'VIP, critical personnel, render all assistance' when scanned. Its also possible that he's carrying a false ID of the requisite level to provide him with that type of pull.

How many grunts know about precise sector boundaries, and how one sector will react to the murder of another sector's people on their turf?



There is a profound difference between "I would be there if it weren't for you" delivered in a slightly accusatory tone, and"I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not!" said with positive relish of the fact that this person means nothing to you.

Um, he said 'that's no shepherd', not 'that's not all he is', or 'you think that's all there is to him?'. That would seem to indicate a lack of sheperdhood, not someone who was once something else but became a shepherd to escape his past.

Hey, if you want an alternative theory, he's one of the head independents who caved in and betrayed his people to the Alliance. As such, he presumably knows where a number of the bodies are buried, and has time bombs of info ready to be released if he should buy it, therefore the Alliance wants to keep him alive.

The trouble is, there's no easy way to reconcile his theoretical regard for human life with the contempt he displays for River in Objects in Space. One of the two is an act. The only people I can recall him making extraordinary effort to keep alive were Alliance, in both the first episode, and the Message. His behavior in the episode where they go tor escue Mal may have been the pragmatic approach of leaving wounded alive to demoralise the enemy, force them to expend effort to care for them, and possibly expose themselves in an effort to drag a buddy out of fire. There's nothing saying that the decision to shoot to wound has to be made out of niceness.
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Post by Stofsk »

So could Simon's, in the same episode.
No way, Simon's thoughts on River centred on mild bitterness or loss, depending on how you want to see it, that he's away from his home and his former job. But at no point did he think of her as anything other than his sister. He only wanted to be back home and his old life. Book's thoughts were more or less hostile towards River (if we assume he was actually thinking about her). Furthermore Simon takes a bullet for River, so I think we can say that his thoughts on his sister aren't on the same level as Book's.
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consequences wrote:Presumably their ID cards are coded. There could be any number of apparently random data groupings that would actually signal 'VIP, critical personnel, render all assistance' when scanned. Its also possible that he's carrying a false ID of the requisite level to provide him with that type of pull.
It's possible this, it's possible that. You're doing a very good job building a castle on thin air. But we'll run with this "it's possible" for a moment. If he's trying to keep his head down, why would he have a code on his card that will draw attention anytime the Alliance scanned it? Just in the off chance he got shot and the nearest hospital happened to be on an Alliance cruiser? Maybe River isn't the only psychic on Serenity.

Remember, according to you, Book is really part of a rival intelligence agency within the Alliance which knows about the Hands of Blue project--a project so secret and so important that the Blue Hands guys casually murdered Alliance marshalls in a brutal, agonizing manner just for talking to River. So your spy, who knows about the project and is opposed to it, has taken the trouble to change his face and his identity, but he just so happens to be carrying an identicard which could potentially draw the attention of his most dangerous enemies.
How many grunts know about precise sector boundaries, and how one sector will react to the murder of another sector's people on their turf?
Who said anything about precise? They were EIGHT SECTORS outside Womack's jurisdiction. You don't need to know exactly where the boundary line is to tell you're way the hell past it. And a former cop WOULD know how other cops would react to Womack disappearing.
There is a profound difference between "I would be there if it weren't for you" delivered in a slightly accusatory tone, and"I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not!" said with positive relish of the fact that this person means nothing to you.
Three psychics, since apparently you're one too. The fact of the matter is, her own brother had hostile thoughts about her--and for that matter, Kaylee didn't look glad to see her, either--and you're taking the fact that Book was MORE hostile to mean that he's a spy. Of course, River is capable of detecting this contempt, but not the fact he's a spy. She knew Jayne sold her and Simon out right away, but she's been riding with Book for months and isn't afraid of him, hasn't made any cryptic remarks about him, nothing.

But hey, you're apparently a mind reader, because you know that Book wasn't just frustrated at that moment, or indulging in the evil thoughts that everyone occasionally has but rarely reacts upon, that that thought was directed at Jayne (Inara and Mal weren't thinking about her, and they still seemed to address her when she read their thoughts), or even that a girl who moments later saw the floor of the cargo bay covered in leaves simply misread him. Book thinks that one thought at that one moment, and you know it means he's a spy.
Um, he said 'that's no shepherd', not 'that's not all he is', or 'you think that's all there is to him?'. That would seem to indicate a lack of sheperdhood, not someone who was once something else but became a shepherd to escape his past.
More mind-reading of fictional characters. Another borderline lunatic makes a statement with more than one possible meaning, with no further explanation ever offered, and you know it means whatever is necessary to support your hypothesis.
Hey, if you want an alternative theory, he's one of the head independents who caved in and betrayed his people to the Alliance. As such, he presumably knows where a number of the bodies are buried, and has time bombs of info ready to be released if he should buy it, therefore the Alliance wants to keep him alive.
That's not an alternative theory, that's more unfounded explanation. You're just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
The trouble is, there's no easy way to reconcile his theoretical regard for human life with the contempt he displays for River in Objects in Space. One of the two is an act.
A crazy girl who can't tell a gun from a stick reads one line which may or may not have been directed at her, and that somehow overrides the fact that he's NEVER said or done anything that supports your theory.

You know what? Even if you're totally right about that line, and he really does despise her, do you know what that proves? That he despises her. That's it. All your silly spy bullshit still falls to pieces because you don't have a shred of evidence holding it together.
The only people I can recall him making extraordinary effort to keep alive were Alliance, in both the first episode, and the Message. His behavior in the episode where they go tor escue Mal may have been the pragmatic approach of leaving wounded alive to demoralise the enemy, force them to expend effort to care for them, and possibly expose themselves in an effort to drag a buddy out of fire. There's nothing saying that the decision to shoot to wound has to be made out of niceness.
Um, you DO realize it's much, much harder to make a knee shot than a chest shot, right? Are you contending he was risking his own life and that of his fellows in order to demoralize the enemy? They were trying to get in and get out as quickly as possible, and do it alive, and shooting to wound, especially a difficult shot like a kneeshot against a moving target, is counterproductive. The ONLY thing that makes and sense is that he was genuinely trying not to kill people for moral reasons, because there's no practical reason for him to do so.
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Post by RedImperator »

Stofsk wrote:
So could Simon's, in the same episode.
No way, Simon's thoughts on River centred on mild bitterness or loss, depending on how you want to see it, that he's away from his home and his former job. But at no point did he think of her as anything other than his sister. He only wanted to be back home and his old life. Book's thoughts were more or less hostile towards River (if we assume he was actually thinking about her). Furthermore Simon takes a bullet for River, so I think we can say that his thoughts on his sister aren't on the same level as Book's.
Simon may not have been as hostile as Book, but there was still hostility there--it was on Kaylee's face, too. It's a long, long way from "Book was thinking a nasty thought about her at that moment for no reason we can know from the evidence in the episode" to "He's a spy!", which is the argument consequences is trying to make.
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Post by Stofsk »

RedImperator wrote:Simon may not have been as hostile as Book, but there was still hostility there--it was on Kaylee's face, too. It's a long, long way from "Book was thinking a nasty thought about her at that moment for no reason we can know from the evidence in the episode" to "He's a spy!", which is the argument consequences is trying to make.
True. I wasn't trying to argue "He's a spy!" I do think his past is pretty damn shady. It's just... you seemed to be saying that Simon and Book's thoughts were equivalent with each other, and I thought otherwise. The former says "I would be there right now..." The unspoken part is "...if not for her" which is directed at River. Yeah, it's bitter but I don't see it as hostile as Book's snarling "I don't give a damn if she's innocent" then laughing right after. (interestingly, I didn't even think Book was referring to River with that line, I interpreted it to mean something from his past, but that doesn't make sense)

The former is sad and bitter, but the latter is scary - we know there's more to Book than meets the eye, but even then he's a Shepherd, you just assume he's a nice guy. The way he says that line just unnerves me.

Also Kaylee may have been hostile, but to be honest I can't remember what expression she had on her face so I'll take your word for it.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

So has anyone heard about whether or not we'll be hearing from Blue Sun in the movie?
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Post by Stofsk »

HemlockGrey wrote:So has anyone heard about whether or not we'll be hearing from Blue Sun in the movie?
Who? What?
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Post by HemlockGrey »

When you watch through the episodes, keep a sharp eye out. You'll see posters for Blue Sun, the Blue Sun logo painted on walls, hell, Jayne even owns a "Blue Sun" T-shirt. In the commentary, Whedon mentions that Blue Sun was supposed to be a huge corporation that was an integral part of the government and it would have featured heavily in later episodes.
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Post by McC »

"I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. Where does that put you?"

and

"That ain't a shepherd."

Are the lines in question. For clarification's sake ;)
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Post by McC »

Blue Sun was conjectural spoilers actually the company behind River's transformation. I tend to think that a corporate-driven entity like the Alliance would have something like that going on. I also think that the "important people" who came to pick up River and Simon in Ariel were Blue Sun representatives (two by two, hands of blue). As mentioned, there were often Blue Sun posters and Jayne had a Blue Sun shirt.
-Ryan McClure-
Scaper - Browncoat - Warsie (semi-movie purist) - Colonial - TNG/DS9-era Trekker - Hero || BOTM - Maniac || Antireligious naturalist
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