STvsSW in Highschool?!

Failed Glory · Post by **Failed Glory** » 2002-11-18 12:41pm

Shadow wrote:The Galactic Empire letter is written very poorly.

The guy is in high school! Yes, his work is fragmented in thought and borrowing heavily, but to even endeavour such an abstract point of view for a sophomore English paper should be applauded. It's far better than the typical analysis of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet for the 2 billionth time this century.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-18 12:47pm

Failed Glory wrote:The guy is in high school! Yes, his work is fragmented in thought and borrowing heavily, but to even endeavour such an abstract point of view for a sophomore English paper should be applauded. It's far better than the typical analysis of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet for the 2 billionth time this century.

Romeo and Juliet is the most overrated romance in history. Most of the dialogue in that play (even if cleaned up for modern diction) is so utterly atrocious that it makes Anakin's lines in AOTC sound like poetry. It gets a free ride because no one dares say anything bad about Willy Shakespeare.

Failed Glory · Post by **Failed Glory** » 2002-11-18 01:49pm

Darth Wong wrote: Romeo and Juliet is the most overrated romance in history.

I was getting at the fact that every high school student must read it and do a paper on it, not the fact that there are far better Bard plays to be had.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-11-18 03:29pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Failed Glory wrote:The guy is in high school! Yes, his work is fragmented in thought and borrowing heavily, but to even endeavour such an abstract point of view for a sophomore English paper should be applauded. It's far better than the typical analysis of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet for the 2 billionth time this century.
Romeo and Juliet is the most overrated romance in history. Most of the dialogue in that play (even if cleaned up for modern diction) is so utterly atrocious that it makes Anakin's lines in AOTC sound like poetry. It gets a free ride because no one dares say anything bad about Willy Shakespeare.

...but... it's so romantic...

*swoons*

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-18 05:09pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Failed Glory wrote:The guy is in high school! Yes, his work is fragmented in thought and borrowing heavily, but to even endeavour such an abstract point of view for a sophomore English paper should be applauded. It's far better than the typical analysis of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet for the 2 billionth time this century.
Romeo and Juliet is the most overrated romance in history. Most of the dialogue in that play (even if cleaned up for modern diction) is so utterly atrocious that it makes Anakin's lines in AOTC sound like poetry. It gets a free ride because no one dares say anything bad about Willy Shakespeare.

Except that Anakin's AotC lines aren't written in iambic pentameter. And anyway, SW is likely to be a smaller version of Romeo and Juliet in the distant future. I predict that it will be one of the few movies that survives for the next few centuries, so the comparison is not really fair.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-11-18 06:43pm

Just how many times was Romeo and Juliet made into a movie anyway? I find it quite annyoing to do a report on it. Shakespeare wrote 36 other plays, why not read one of them?

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-18 06:49pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:Just how many times was Romeo and Juliet made into a movie anyway? I find it quite annyoing to do a report on it. Shakespeare wrote 36 other plays, why not read one of them?

Because all 36 of his other plays sucked even more.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-18 08:06pm

data_link wrote:
Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:Just how many times was Romeo and Juliet made into a movie anyway? I find it quite annyoing to do a report on it. Shakespeare wrote 36 other plays, why not read one of them?
Because all 36 of his other plays sucked even more.

Oh bullshit.

I liked Macbeth.

...but... it's so romantic...

What is Juliet, 13?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-18 08:08pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:Just how many times was Romeo and Juliet made into a movie anyway? I find it quite annyoing to do a report on it. Shakespeare wrote 36 other plays, why not read one of them?

R&J was Shakespeare's greatest play. The one that is inexplicably considered great, IMO, is A Midsummer Night's Dream. A highly respected author will almost always have his greatest work be the one that survives him. Look at how, when someone is teaching Golding, they invariably insert Lord of the Flies, or when someone is teaching Spenser they invariably select The Faerie Queene, even though it was unfinished.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-18 09:10pm

Master of Ossus wrote:R&J was Shakespeare's greatest play. The one that is inexplicably considered great, IMO, is A Midsummer Night's Dream. A highly respected author will almost always have his greatest work be the one that survives him. Look at how, when someone is teaching Golding, they invariably insert Lord of the Flies, or when someone is teaching Spenser they invariably select The Faerie Queene, even though it was unfinished.

Yes, but I still don't see why R&J was a great or even acceptable play. If somebody made a movie today with its one-dimensional characters and cheesy "ROMEO: you're so hot ... JULIET: Really? I'll love you forever" romance dialogue, it would be incinerated by the critics.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-18 09:14pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:R&J was Shakespeare's greatest play. The one that is inexplicably considered great, IMO, is A Midsummer Night's Dream. A highly respected author will almost always have his greatest work be the one that survives him. Look at how, when someone is teaching Golding, they invariably insert Lord of the Flies, or when someone is teaching Spenser they invariably select The Faerie Queene, even though it was unfinished.
Yes, but I still don't see why R&J was a great or even acceptable play. If somebody made a movie today with its one-dimensional characters and cheesy "ROMEO: you're so hot ... JULIET: Really? I'll love you forever" romance dialogue, it would be incinerated by the critics.

Critics can burn anything. But damn that play was bad. Macbeth and it are the only examples of his work I've read and it was not volentary. Macbeth was marginal, R&J was awful at best.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-11-18 09:18pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Critics can burn anything. But damn that play was bad. Macbeth and it are the only examples of his work I've read and it was not volentary. Macbeth was marginal, R&J was awful at best.

You seem to have gotten off easy. How old are you again? I had to read R&J in 9th grade, Julius Caesar in 10th, Macbeth in 12th and Hamlet and Measure for Measure in Freshman year of college. Damn.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-18 09:27pm

I don't know about how bad R&J would be as a movie. I liked the Baz Luhrman R&J where it was a modern setting, but used the original text mostly.

Oh, and I liked Much Ado About Nothing, at least it told you in the title that it wasn't anything heavy.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-18 09:49pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:Critics can burn anything. But damn that play was bad. Macbeth and it are the only examples of his work I've read and it was not volentary. Macbeth was marginal, R&J was awful at best.
You seem to have gotten off easy. How old are you again? I had to read R&J in 9th grade, Julius Caesar in 10th, Macbeth in 12th and Hamlet and Measure for Measure in Freshman year of college. Damn.

17 in 11th grade. I was at a private school for my first two years though. If I'd been in public there would be one or two more of his works on my list.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-11-18 10:18pm

I read midsummers night dream in 9th grade, and macbeth on my own. havent read any other shakespeare.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-18 10:19pm

In school I've had to read:
Romeo and Juliet
Midsummer Night's Dream
Comedy of Errors
Taming of the Shrew
Macbeth (three times)
Othello
Hamlet

I enjoyed the three tragedies, and found Comedy of Errors and Taming of the Shrew funny.

The movie "O" is a fairly good modernization of Othello (far better than the Leonardo diCraprio R&J). It changes it to a high school basketball player instead of a general, and it works surprisingly well.

Failed Glory · Post by **Failed Glory** » 2002-11-19 12:55pm

See Richard III the movie set in the 1930s. Good stuff.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2002-11-19 01:51pm

To add some realism:

The Empire would honestly believe that the federation would be better off under their rule. The Empire is not there to rape the Federation, rather liberate it from the confinement of its communist government masquerading as a democracy. A democratically elected government is weak and slow; it lacks the ability to make the decisive changes the Emperor has made for the people of the Galactic Empire. The wisdom and guidance of the Emperor would lead the federation into a new age. With the framework of the Empire, federation citizens will enjoy new freedoms, such as the freedom to pursue ones *own* goals, rather than that of their former communist oppressors.

blah, blah, propaganda like that.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-19 09:24pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:R&J was Shakespeare's greatest play. The one that is inexplicably considered great, IMO, is A Midsummer Night's Dream. A highly respected author will almost always have his greatest work be the one that survives him. Look at how, when someone is teaching Golding, they invariably insert Lord of the Flies, or when someone is teaching Spenser they invariably select The Faerie Queene, even though it was unfinished.
Yes, but I still don't see why R&J was a great or even acceptable play. If somebody made a movie today with its one-dimensional characters and cheesy "ROMEO: you're so hot ... JULIET: Really? I'll love you forever" romance dialogue, it would be incinerated by the critics.

It's a story of destiny, more than of characters. And besides, look what happened with Titanic. Leo says, "You're hot." Girl says, "Okay, I'll never forget you." Not only is it fairly well received by critics, but the movie is probably the most successful one of all time!

Hendrake · Post by **Hendrake** » 2002-11-20 09:52am

Well, Shakespeare is my favorite non-sf author.
Though I agree R&J is not that good, I loved most of his works, especially Othello, The Tempest and A Midsummer Night's Dream.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-11-20 10:16am

In Bill's defence most of his work was written a long time ago, people were very different, tney considered something as tame as MacBeth to be absolutely terrifying. His work does hold up well but i agree people do make too much outta Romeo & Juliet. MacBeth was far far superior a play, and i'm not bias by the fact that i acted in MacBeth in High School, I was Lord MacDuff the Thaine of Fyfe banana

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-20 05:36pm

In Bill's defence most of his work was written a long time ago, people were very different, tney considered something as tame as MacBeth to be absolutely terrifying. His work does hold up well but i agree people do make too much outta Romeo & Juliet. MacBeth was far far superior a play, and i'm not bias by the fact that i acted in MacBeth in High School, I was Lord MacDuff the Thaine of Fyfe banana

I'm sure his plays were considered good at the time, else we wouldn't have even heard of them today. The point is, now that being able to write is no longer only the province of the aristocracy, the stuff we have now makes Shakespeare look like chopped liver. The problem with English professors in my opinion, is that they refuse to realize that classics are not timeless and that like everything else, the arts evolve over time. We do not consider a wooden frigate to be the equal of a modern aircraft carrier, we do not consider the abacus to be equal to a pocket calculator, why should Shakespeare be considered the equal of today's motion pictures?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-20 05:45pm

data_link wrote:
In Bill's defence most of his work was written a long time ago, people were very different, tney considered something as tame as MacBeth to be absolutely terrifying. His work does hold up well but i agree people do make too much outta Romeo & Juliet. MacBeth was far far superior a play, and i'm not bias by the fact that i acted in MacBeth in High School, I was Lord MacDuff the Thaine of Fyfe banana
I'm sure his plays were considered good at the time, else we wouldn't have even heard of them today. The point is, now that being able to write is no longer only the province of the aristocracy, the stuff we have now makes Shakespeare look like chopped liver. The problem with English professors in my opinion, is that they refuse to realize that classics are not timeless and that like everything else, the arts evolve over time. We do not consider a wooden frigate to be the equal of a modern aircraft carrier, we do not consider the abacus to be equal to a pocket calculator, why should Shakespeare be considered the equal of today's motion pictures?

I think it's more along the lines of the stories are timeless. Nearly any modern movie or television epsiode can be traced back (admittedly loosely) to a Shakespeare play of some sort. Add the other "classics," and it's almost certain. The names and settings may change, but the guts of the story are the same.

Oh, and were you aware that the flagship of the United States Navy is a wooden frigate? It's definitely not the equivalent of an aircraft carrier, but the U.S.S. Constitution is still the flagship of the fleet.

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2002-11-20 05:48pm

Stravo wrote:Wait...Did I read that right? Did Kirk basically say: THE FEDERATION LIVES

Funny. I thought the Tarkin ultimatum sounded like something out of my fic.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-20 05:53pm

Tarkin sounds totally out of character. At best a C.