Hayden instead of Sebastian- RotJ

Comosicus · Post by **Comosicus** » 2005-04-29 06:30pm

One of the Romanian Television posts aired tonight ROTJ. And at the end scene, when the spirits of Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin appear to Luke, I have noticed that the old image of mature Anakin (Vader) has been replaced with Anakin looking as in the new to come ROTS. Anyone knowing more about this thing?

Flakin · Post by **Flakin** » 2005-04-29 06:32pm

My understanding was that Lucas changed it in the ROTJ DVD release.

UCBooties · Post by **UCBooties** » 2005-04-29 06:33pm

It was changed for the DVD release of the original trilogy. One of many changes, but probably the most notable. A lot of people were upset and, I'll admit, I thought it was pretty anoying too, but I think we've mostly come to terms with it.

Comosicus · Post by **Comosicus** » 2005-04-29 06:58pm

Well, that fits in, because I've never seen the DVD releases.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-04-29 07:38pm

I don't mind that they replaced the old actor with Christensen. After all, now know that's what he looked like before his fall. What bugs me is that they couldn't get a shot of him looking non-creepy.

ds615 · Post by **ds615** » 2005-04-29 08:27pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:After all, now know that's what he looked like before his fall.

It also means that there is no redemption for Vader, and he dies as the Sith Lord we all know love, not the wimpy jedi/father he was in the original.

I perfer the original myself, but I can accept the fact that Vader never turns back.

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2005-04-29 09:01pm

Could the images be what Anakin had as his self image? All people have their own self image vs real image.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-04-29 09:04pm

Admiral Drason wrote:Could the images be what Anakin had as his self image? All people have their own self image vs real image.

So why would Obi-wan look about sixty, then? One would imagine he'd have a younger 'self-image'....

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2005-04-29 09:08pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
Admiral Drason wrote:Could the images be what Anakin had as his self image? All people have their own self image vs real image.
So why would Obi-wan look about sixty, then? One would imagine he'd have a younger 'self-image'....

Shhh! Don't give Lucas ideas for what to change in the next release.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-04-29 09:18pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
Admiral Drason wrote:Could the images be what Anakin had as his self image? All people have their own self image vs real image.
So why would Obi-wan look about sixty, then? One would imagine he'd have a younger 'self-image'.... :P

Why would Obi-Wan's self-image be at the age at which he made his greatest mistakes?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-29 09:35pm

Anakin's spirit was basically locked at the time of his betrayal.

Panzer Grenadier · Post by **Panzer Grenadier** » 2005-04-29 09:39pm

The only thing that really bothers me is that it seems like one of the most pointless changes lucas could have done. I mean does it really, really do anything to enhance our understanding or feeling for the characters? Just a waste of time for the special effects guy who had to go back and do that.

lordmakalpine · Post by **lordmakalpine** » 2005-04-30 12:13pm

I loved the change. It was one of the most touching moments in the movie, and kudos to Lucas for making it.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-04-30 12:26pm

I edited the title.

Anyway, I'm of two minds about the change- on the "that's crap!" side, it's yet more revisionism, which always rubs a fan the wrong way.

On the "that's cool" side- Sebastian Shaw, "normally", doesn't look anything like Hayden Christensen. One would think that a 43-year old Anakin Skywalker, as he obviously should be given what we know, should look much different. However, Hayden Christensen looking as he was when he was 22/23 years of age is a bit of a strech too.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-04-30 01:45pm

What bugs me is that they couldn't get a shot of him looking non-creepy.

I actually like his creepy smile, shows that just because he did one good thing and helped end the Empire, doesn´mean he´ll revert to a hippie-ghost state automatically. Think about it, the guy is standing there, watching the people he fought for years on end, celebrate his death and the destruction of his empire. I´d be a bit "ambivalent" about the whole situation, too.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-04-30 01:53pm

I think the ideal solution would've been to combine the visages of Sebastian Shaw and Hayden Christensen, and aged the image to mid-forties.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-04-30 02:06pm

True, but Lucas has said he wanted Hayden to look like his ROTS-self to show that his Anakin-side went into "hybernation" for 24 years, only to be ressurected at the end of Jedi.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-04-30 02:24pm

VT-16 wrote:True, but Lucas has said he wanted Hayden to look like his ROTS-self to show that his Anakin-side went into "hybernation" for 24 years, only to be ressurected at the end of Jedi.

Yeah, but that's stupid.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-04-30 02:29pm

Yeah, but that's stupid.

You do realise we´re talking about ghosts ressurected by a magical energyfield, right? One form makes as much sense as the other.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-04-30 02:30pm

VT-16 wrote:
Yeah, but that's stupid.
You do realise we´re talking about ghosts ressurected by a magical energyfield, right?

Its still stupid.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-04-30 02:39pm

I agree with IP. Doesn't make much sense to me. A Hayden Christensen in makeup to make him look 43 rather than 23 would be better.

SCRawl · Post by **SCRawl** » 2005-04-30 03:13pm

Vympel wrote:I agree with IP. Doesn't make much sense to me. A Hayden Christensen in makeup to make him look 43 rather than 23 would be better.

To do that at the last scene, you'd also have to make an aged/damaged Hayden head for Anakin's death scene, and re-do that somehow. Not a terrible idea, but it couldn't be easy to pull off.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-04-30 03:19pm

SCRawl wrote:
Vympel wrote:I agree with IP. Doesn't make much sense to me. A Hayden Christensen in makeup to make him look 43 rather than 23 would be better.
To do that at the last scene, you'd also have to make an aged/damaged Hayden head for Anakin's death scene, and re-do that somehow. Not a terrible idea, but it couldn't be easy to pull off.

Why? Leave Sebastian for the unmasking just like before?

SCRawl · Post by **SCRawl** » 2005-04-30 03:35pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
SCRawl wrote:
Vympel wrote:I agree with IP. Doesn't make much sense to me. A Hayden Christensen in makeup to make him look 43 rather than 23 would be better.
To do that at the last scene, you'd also have to make an aged/damaged Hayden head for Anakin's death scene, and re-do that somehow. Not a terrible idea, but it couldn't be easy to pull off.
Why? Leave Sebastian for the unmasking just like before?

You could do that, sure. I don't know think that you could realistically expect someone to believe that Shaw looked like Anakin would after c. 20 years and a lava dip. The film as it exists now on the DVD doesn't account for this, either, so I guess it's not a big issue.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-04-30 03:45pm

SCRawl wrote:You could do that, sure. I don't know think that you could realistically expect someone to believe that Shaw looked like Anakin would after c. 20 years and a lava dip. The film as it exists now on the DVD doesn't account for this, either, so I guess it's not a big issue.

Uh, the man hasn't seen sunlight in nearly twenty-five years. Not to mention the Dark Side clearly does bad juju to you. He had full-body skin burns. I'm surprised he doesn't look inhuman. You ought to see what some survivors of car accidents look like.