Would the psychological ST weapons work against SW?

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-04-29 08:40pm

I was just wondering, would the fear-producing beams that the Furies had from Star Trek The Next Generation: Invasion! Book Two, The Soldiers of Fear, would have on Imperial crews on their warships?

Here's a brief description: It sends a beam through interspace which can transmit human fear. The beam itself is conical in shape, which spreads out the farther the range.

I'll search for ranges for the fear beam.

Anyways, what effect would this have on Imperial warships? Has this ever been brought up in Star Trek vs. Star Wars debates?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-04-29 08:42pm

I don't see any reason why not. Humans make up large portions of both sides militaries.

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2005-04-29 08:44pm

I don't suppose an Imperial warship's droids/main computer would be able to determine that the crew has been incapacitated and take over?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-04-29 08:45pm

This is from a non-canon source so it's irrelevant anyway but the effect of those beams on TT/PT level shielding was what, exactly?

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-04-29 08:47pm

Batman wrote:This is from a non-canon source so it's irrelevant anyway but the effect of those beams on TT/PT level shielding was what, exactly?

It's not canon? Why? Who declared it non-canon?

Anyways, I don't know what effect it would have on such powerful shielding, but the Federation did have to modify their shields with some bizarre subspace field or what not.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-04-29 08:47pm

Castor Troy wrote:
Batman wrote:This is from a non-canon source so it's irrelevant anyway but the effect of those beams on TT/PT level shielding was what, exactly?
It's not canon? Why? Who declared it non-canon?

Paramount.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-04-29 08:51pm

Hunh. Wierd.

Anyways, besides the fact that it isn't canon, what would the effects be? Has this been brought up in previous debates? (NOTE: I am not arguing for a "Trek can beat Wars" point or anything like that, I'm just curious what would happen)

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-04-29 08:56pm

Castor Troy wrote:Hunh. Wierd.
Anyways, besides the fact that it isn't canon, what would the effects be?

As those beams were never used against Wars shields the effects are-undeterminable?

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-04-29 09:39pm

Castor Troy wrote:It's not canon? Why? Who declared it non-canon?

Only the shows and movies are considered Trek canon

Anyways, I don't know what effect it would have on such powerful shielding, but the Federation did have to modify their shields with some bizarre subspace field or what not.

If the beam is subspace in nature it way be able to bypass Imperial shielding, seeing as it's traveling through a different dimension and all. That's by no means certain though, especially since it obviously does interact with the physical universe (i.e. cause uncontrollable terror in its victims). It might be more useful in ground combat if shields stop it.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-04-29 10:11pm

Actually, Wars shields block other dimensional transit; subspace sensors and hyperspace signals are screened out by them(AOTC ICS). And really, subspace tech has nasty problems with dense metals as it is.

As for the fear weapons? Well, they'd probably work well in most cases, but it would be going up against Palpatine's mass-mental-buffering he used to make his entire military fight effectively together.

Yea, Palpatine apparently could link billions of minds together to make them fight better. Crazy shit.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-04-29 10:13pm

One would think that any starship crew which had worked under Vader would already be quite accustomed to fear.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-04-29 10:14pm

Darth Wong wrote:One would think that any starship crew which had worked under Vader would already be quite accustomed to fear.

Executor and his ISDs before that are therefore okay...

I'd call that a few dozen down, tens of thousands to go...

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-04-29 10:21pm

Good point about Palpatine and his mass mental mind buffering. Speaking of which, out of curiosity, when does he do this?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-04-29 10:28pm

Castor Troy wrote:Good point about Palpatine and his mass mental mind buffering. Speaking of which, out of curiosity, when does he do this?

According to Dark Force Rising, throughout his career as Emperor. Right up to his death(At which point the fleet splintered at the seams, their morale already hit hard by the loss of the Executor).

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-04-29 11:32pm

SirNitram wrote:According to Dark Force Rising, throughout his career as Emperor. Right up to his death(At which point the fleet splintered at the seams, their morale already hit hard by the loss of the Executor).

I would have thought he meant only the Imperial Fleet at Endor. Wasn't it Heir to the Empire that rolled around this?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-04-29 11:37pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
SirNitram wrote:According to Dark Force Rising, throughout his career as Emperor. Right up to his death(At which point the fleet splintered at the seams, their morale already hit hard by the loss of the Executor).
I would have thought he meant only the Imperial Fleet at Endor. Wasn't it Heir to the Empire that rolled around this?

I remember it mostly as the second, but it was around the whole trilogy, I think.

But I recall nothing in Thrawn's revelation that would indicate it was just that battle. Shit, Pelleaon counted the reduced efficiency as morale; does that sound like it was only one occasion of improved combat abilities?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-04-30 01:29am

It would seem that the Emperors will had become almost like a narcotic effect and wore off as he used it, but he required to use it to maintain fleet effenciency. Remove his influence, fleet effenciency drops in many areas (though not all, elite units and highly trained individuals still retained their fighting will).

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-04-30 01:31am

Alyeska wrote:It would seem that the Emperors will had become almost like a narcotic effect and wore off as he used it, but he required to use it to maintain fleet effenciency. Remove his influence, fleet effenciency drops in many areas (though not all, elite units and highly trained individuals still retained their fighting will).

Precisely, and they were suffering from a Withdrawal at Endor, making their performance hopeless. People who are suffering from severe drug withdrawal effects don't fight well.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2005-04-30 01:34am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Alyeska wrote:It would seem that the Emperors will had become almost like a narcotic effect and wore off as he used it, but he required to use it to maintain fleet effenciency. Remove his influence, fleet effenciency drops in many areas (though not all, elite units and highly trained individuals still retained their fighting will).
Precisely, and they were suffering from a Withdrawal at Endor, making their performance hopeless. People who are suffering from severe drug withdrawal effects don't fight well.

So Imperial training is so pathetic they require a Force user to strengthen their will and ability to fight?

GeneralTacticus · Post by **GeneralTacticus** » 2005-04-30 01:43am

No, they'd simply become so used to fighting with the benefits of Palpatine's Force guidance that when it was suddenly taken away, they were less effective than they would have been otherwise.

Look at it like this: modern military forces depend on accurate communications. Take that away, and, all other things being equal, they become less effective than a military that has never had such communications and is therefore used to fighting without them. Does this make modern military training pathetic?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-04-30 02:05am

Or thats all rubbish and the Empire was defeated because of internal squabbles, poor leadership, and a loss of support.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-04-30 02:12am

Robert Walper wrote:So Imperial training is so pathetic they require a Force user to strengthen their will and ability to fight?

Not really. Think of it like drugs. You fight well. I want you to fight better. So I give you a bunch of amphetamines and various other stimulants. So you fight better than normal. But then I can't give you more and the drug runs out. You go into withdrawal and get really down.

There's a lesson about drugs in all this...

Or thats all rubbish and the Empire was defeated because of internal squabbles, poor leadership, and a loss of support

A possibility. That was just Thrawn's theory after all, though it is true that C'baoth could enhance performance.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-04-30 01:33pm

Robert Walper wrote:So Imperial training is so pathetic they require a Force user to strengthen their will and ability to fight?

The skill is called battle meditation and if Force user concentrates on using it may be next to impossible to defeat the forces on that Force users side. It does not only increase morale and skill on your side, it also decreases morale and skill of the opponent (unless their will is stong enough to resist). It's really powerfull skill if you can use it correctly. And the Empires training was probaly good enough for most cases, but Palpatine wanted his forces to be perfect.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-04-30 01:38pm

Lord Revan wrote:The skill is called battle meditation and if Force user concentrates on using it may be next to impossible to defeat the forces on that Force users side. It does not only increase morale and skill on your side, it also decreases morale and skill of the opponent (unless their will is stong enough to resist). It's really powerfull skill if you can use it correctly. And the Empires training was probaly good enough for most cases, but Palpatine wanted his forces to be perfect.

I would have thought he was using Enhanced Coordination actually. The difficulties for that is lower than full blown Battle Meditation, so it should be more efficient to do just that.

If the Emperor was really using Battle Meditation, he should have concentrated it on Lando, so he'd run

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-04-30 01:49pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:The skill is called battle meditation and if Force user concentrates on using it may be next to impossible to defeat the forces on that Force users side. It does not only increase morale and skill on your side, it also decreases morale and skill of the opponent (unless their will is stong enough to resist). It's really powerfull skill if you can use it correctly. And the Empires training was probaly good enough for most cases, but Palpatine wanted his forces to be perfect.
I would have thought he was using Enhanced Coordination actually. The difficulties for that is lower than full blown Battle Meditation, so it should be more efficient to do just that.

If the Emperor was really using Battle Meditation, he should have concentrated it on Lando, so he'd run

They're basically the same skill, the other just weaker also Palpatine wasn't concentrating on the battle or on using the battle meditation so the effects would be weaker.