PCMag: OMFG GAMING DOOMED?! Or something.

[Drooling Iguana]

I've always figured that someday in the future we'll see the converging of different genre's.

Imagine a real time strategy where you can take over individual characters like an FPS game.

Dungeon Keeper 2

Or an FPS combined with a platformer?

Metroid Prime.

[Losonti Tokash]

I've always figured that someday in the future we'll see the converging of different genre's.

Imagine a real time strategy where you can take over individual characters like an FPS game.

Dungeon Keeper 2

Don't forget Urban Assault or Hostile Waters.

[Drooling Iguana]

I've always figured that someday in the future we'll see the converging of different genre's.

Imagine a real time strategy where you can take over individual characters like an FPS game.

Dungeon Keeper 2

Don't forget Urban Assault or Hostile Waters.

Haven't played those.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

I've always figured that someday in the future we'll see the converging of different genre's.


Imagine a real time strategy where you can take over individual characters like an FPS game.

Remember: there's always scope limitation for real-time games. This is more important when you're able to take over each individual units. You cannot, for example, have a version of Hostile Waters with hundreds of units on the battlefield.

Also, the ability to take over individual unit should be accompanied by good AI, so you do it for enjoyment instead of being forced to do such thing to win the game.

Their Finest Hour is a good example of "unit jumping" since you can move from one gun station to another without being worried (when you're flying a bomber). Israeli Air Force is one hell of a bad example, when taking control of every fighter, not to mention the timing, is fucking mandatory to win the game.

[Ra]

I wish I could share your , but I'm afraid the self-destructing act may cost us gamers as well. And then everybody will start playing solitaire on their PC after the fallout.

I don't really want the gaming companies to self-destruct altogether, but they do need to stop with constantly demanding higher performance for so-so games. Not everyone can keep up with the latest titles and their high demands, myself included. Basically, I can't even buy new games without expensive upgrading that I can't afford.
- Ra

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

I wish I could share your , but I'm afraid the self-destructing act may cost us gamers as well. And then everybody will start playing solitaire on their PC after the fallout.

I don't really want the gaming companies to self-destruct altogether, but they do need to stop with constantly demanding higher performance for so-so games. Not everyone can keep up with the latest titles and their high demands, myself included. Basically, I can't even buy new games without expensive upgrading that I can't afford.
- Ra

I rememember the days of CGA graphics, where everybody had to resort to gameplay to make their games stand out among the crowd *cough*Pirates!*cough* because everything looked equally awful.

Probably such trend will repeat? Only this time because everything looks equally good?

[Ra]

I hope so. And maybe then I can get a system that'll actually run em!
- Ra

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

I hope so. And maybe then I can get a system that'll actually run em!
- Ra

It's probably more demanding, because you have better AI, dynamic in-game world, and such things beside all those beautiful graphics.

[Praxis]

I've always figured that someday in the future we'll see the converging of different genre's.

Imagine a real time strategy where you can take over individual characters like an FPS game.

Dungeon Keeper 2

Or an FPS combined with a platformer?

Metroid Prime.

Exactly, and I figure further in the future these kinds of convergences will increase.

[Ra]

It's probably more demanding, because you have better AI, dynamic in-game world, and such things beside all those beautiful graphics.

True, but improved AI and campaigns would depend on better processor power and RAM (which is rather easy to upgrade, I went from 250mb to about 768 mb), not on graphics cards that cost around US$200. Now, processors are extremely expensive, but they don't reach obsolescence nearly as often. Has a Pentium V come out yet? Nope, although give Intel half a year and they will. The Pentium IV is still good as gold.
- Ra

[Praxis]

I've always figured that someday in the future we'll see the converging of different genre's.


Imagine a real time strategy where you can take over individual characters like an FPS game.

Remember: there's always scope limitation for real-time games. This is more important when you're able to take over each individual units. You cannot, for example, have a version of Hostile Waters with hundreds of units on the battlefield.

Also, the ability to take over individual unit should be accompanied by good AI, so you do it for enjoyment instead of being forced to do such thing to win the game.

Their Finest Hour is a good example of "unit jumping" since you can move from one gun station to another without being worried (when you're flying a bomber). Israeli Air Force is one hell of a bad example, when taking control of every fighter, not to mention the timing, is fucking mandatory to win the game.

Which is why I don't think we'll get such functionality to the extend I describe until the average computers/console is considerably more powerful than it is now; enough to run many decently intelligent AI at once, across the battlefield.

And thats why I said it will happen in the future.



I'm imagining an online RTS game (say, like SW: Empire at War) where each side has generals (people controlling it like an RTS, building ships and vehicles, moving capships around, etc), then players who play the fighters, then players who play the people on the ground, etc.

THAT would be cool. We're still a long way off from that, though probably the biggest obstacle is bandiwidth for internet connections. Short of everyone having 3000k connections, that'd be difficult.

[Praxis]

I wish I could share your , but I'm afraid the self-destructing act may cost us gamers as well. And then everybody will start playing solitaire on their PC after the fallout.

I don't really want the gaming companies to self-destruct altogether, but they do need to stop with constantly demanding higher performance for so-so games. Not everyone can keep up with the latest titles and their high demands, myself included. Basically, I can't even buy new games without expensive upgrading that I can't afford.
- Ra

I rememember the days of CGA graphics, where everybody had to resort to gameplay to make their games stand out among the crowd *cough*Pirates!*cough* because everything looked equally awful.

Probably such trend will repeat? Only this time because everything looks equally good?

That's basicly Nintendo's slogan this time around, in fact. "The graphics all look amazingly good, so its more important to have the best gameplay and new ways to play than having the best graphics". Fanboys interpret as, "Nintendo has the worst graphics"...

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Keep in mind guys, that the better games look, the more expensive they are to make. That's partically why there's been rather a drop in the quality and level of innovation in gameplay, because these days, graphics and engines take up so much time, money, and people in development teams.

[McNum]

If you're talking convergence of genres then Will Wright's coming Spore might be worth keeping an eye on.

Also with his idea on user generated shared content he might be on to something new. Of course... Spore could fail, but so far the concept seems good.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

And thats why I said it will happen in the future.



I'm imagining an online RTS game (say, like SW: Empire at War) where each side has generals (people controlling it like an RTS, building ships and vehicles, moving capships around, etc), then players who play the fighters, then players who play the people on the ground, etc.

THAT would be cool. We're still a long way off from that, though probably the biggest obstacle is bandiwidth for internet connections. Short of everyone having 3000k connections, that'd be difficult.

Umm... nope. I guess the biggest obstacle is collecting enough on-line players to actually play the game in such coordinated manner. Even when such game exist, will the gameplay good enough to attract people to play the game?

[Drooling Iguana]

Exactly, and I figure further in the future these kinds of convergences will increase.

Of course, since it's a bloody obvious idea that has already been done countless times dating back to near the beginning of the medium. The problem is that it pretty much always sucks. When I load up an RTS, it's because I want to play an RTS. If I wanted a first-person shooter I'd play one of those instead. I consider it an immense failing of a strategy game if I have to go in and micromanage individual units. That's not the point of that type of game.

Of course, RTS/FPS hybrids are a somewhat extreme example. There have been instances where combining genres has worked rather well, such as in the Hero's Quest series and Guardian Legend. The thing is, in both those cases, the genres that were being combined were fairly similar to begin with. RPGs and graphic adventures are both fairly slow-paced games that rely on the player's ability to think their way through the various problems they encounter, instead of being primarily a test of reflexes, and action/adventure games and shoot-'em-ups are fairly similar for precisely the opposite reason.

I actually hope that game companies stop trying to constantly "innovate" by tossing togeather gimmicks for no reason other than the fact that they haven't been done too many times recently. I don't care if a game is made using a well-used framework, as long as it's a well-done use of that framework and, above all, fun to play. For instance, one of my favourite games of all time, The Longest Journey, is essentially identical from a gameplay perspective as The Secret of Monkey Island, produced a decade before, however is was still good because it was extremely well-executed and because the gameplay model it was based on worked, and worked well.

Of course, then they decided to throw all that out for the sequel and make it yet another hybrid game, but I'll reserve judgement on that until I play it.

[Utsanomiko]

As far as future graphics go, once games can achieve 'perfect' photorealism on all fronts developers will be met with two distinct choices: Stick with this level of realism in a market now swarming with identical 'real' graphics. or take a step or two back to achive distinct style. The chatacter designs in the movie The Incredibles is a good example of style; they're extremely detailed with lots of underlying movements and deep, semi-tranparent skin, yet are clearly not real. It defines its own limitations and works with them, like any good 2D art would do.

Also, as Spanky pointed out, the complexity and buget of modern games prevents depth frombeing present in every part of the game. Want it to cover several genres? Don't expect each one to be very deep in of itsel (Grant Theft Auto III). Complex gameplay? Simple graphics (Fallout II and Master of Orion II, though from '98-'99 they're still simple, considering Half Life is from then).

The gaming community is going to have to learn to deal with such limitations if the industry is going to settle into a zenith of advancement and still make refined and distinct titles. It's the same deal with computers right now; we can make them at maximum levels in everything right now because we haven't hit their limit of physical space or reasonable cost of production/sale price.

[Praxis]

If you're talking convergence of genres then Will Wright's coming Spore might be worth keeping an eye on.

Also with his idea on user generated shared content he might be on to something new. Of course... Spore could fail, but so far the concept seems good.

Yup, I loved the concept of Spore.

[Coalition]

One option from another page is where you designate a certain building as (for example) a warehouse. The game then selects one of the various warehouse designs (or uses parts from each), and automatically renders the warehouse. It could even randomly lay out boxes etc. inside the warehouse.

That would make various FPS or similar games a little more enjoyable, as the layout inside the rooms is never the same.

You could also use it to design your own levels, by using existing floor plans and having the mapmaker render them. Go one level higher, and you make your own walls, stairs, ceilings and floors too. Include ratings for them too, you don't want the kids stumbling upon your porno central while playing the game.

Another option might be similar to Spore, where all you store is a basic graphic of the critter, and the game sets up the movement renders for each mission, based upon the critters present. So if you have 2000 critters in the library, and only have 8 of them in a level, the game only does the rendering for 8 of them, rather than all 2000 for every level.

If you gather data on critters, the game can store the data on each critter in its own folder, and merely record in the savegame which data is known. Store the text information as text, and have the game render it to look fancy.

Serious Sam 2 is looking interesting as well. They have a physics engine, so if you take out a critter's kneecap, the leg just folds. The critter can even fall downhill afterwards. The explosions are also helped by a randomizzer, so they look different every time. Almost everything is outside too.

A third option might be used for the Zerg in Starcraft. You release a standard set of Zerg units, but you also have the ability to design new units for the Zerg. Costs are adjusted as well, so your super clawed Zergling will cost more than the usual. You play the Zerg scenarios as usual, using the game units or your own personal designs, then play the other sides. However, when you play the other sides, the Zerg in those games will be using your custom designs. Or you can download/upload your designs to a server, and store them in a custom folder. Similar cold be done for Terran, Protoss, and any other factions that might pop up.

[mauldooku]

Of course, RTS/FPS hybrids are a somewhat extreme example.

IMO, easily the best RTS/FPS hybrid is Natural Selection for Half-Life. If you've never played it, I highly recommend it.