A question about starships and landing on planets

Darth Bowser · Post by **Darth Bowser** » 2005-04-30 10:29pm

I don't think this has been posted before.

Is there any documentation of the largest starship that was able to land on a planet without any major accomidations?

Old Plympto · Post by **Old Plympto** » 2005-04-30 10:44pm

We can see Acclamators landing on Geonosis and taking off from Coruscant in AOTC.

And ROTS spoilers: we see Venators loading up troops and vehicles on Coruscant.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-04-30 10:50pm

The Victory Star Destroyer is said to be able to go into high atmospheric flight. The Acclamator can actually land to offload clonetroopers and vehicles.

Presumably most could go into low orbit; whether they can get out of it, is another question. The Lusankya-- an Executor-class SSD-- was buried on Coruscant, with an enormous repulsorlift sled underneath it, to perform as an one-time escape vehicle for the Emperor; however, without a similar sled, I seriously doubt you could get it back down to ground again, if you wanted to in the first place.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-04-30 10:56pm

Couldn't the World Devestators touch down? It at least appears so from their design.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-30 11:05pm

I don't think so. While they look like AT-AT feet, IIRC, those are the repulsorlift engines. Also, I think parts of several of the World Devastators' designs actually extend somewhat below the "soles."

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-04-30 11:37pm

Old Plympto wrote:We can see Acclamators landing on Geonosis and taking off from Coruscant in AOTC.

And ROTS spoilers: we see Venators loading up troops and vehicles on Coruscant.

The Droid Battleship 'Core' ,which if the whole ship is ~3000m, should be larger by volume than an Acclamator or Venetor can land.

Since the damn things have gear, at that, it looks like they're designed to land. Which really doesn't make much sense if you think about it. The HUGE freighter is designed in that only the huge part that isn't the large cargo carrying arms, can land, leaving the cargo in space.

Imperator Galacticus · Post by **Imperator Galacticus** » 2005-05-01 10:20am

Well according to this old Marvel comic, the Executor may be able to enter a planet's atmosphere with special modifications to its deflector shields. And really, with their technological ability to suspend multi-kilometer long objects in the atmospheres of gas giants or install repulsorlifts on 160 km battlestations, I honestly can't imagine why a ship like the Executor wouldn't have repulsorlifts and be able to venture into the skies of a terrestrial planet like Earth.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-01 10:58am

Canonically, the Venator-class is the largest such ship. RotS, confirmed.

Darth Bowser · Post by **Darth Bowser** » 2005-05-01 02:01pm

Vympel wrote:Canonically, the Venator-class is the largest such ship. RotS, confirmed.

What's the size on that?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-05-01 02:08pm

Vympel wrote:Canonically, the Venator-class is the largest such ship. RotS, confirmed.

Trade Fed 'Core' ship should be larger than a Venator.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-05-01 02:12pm

Knife wrote:
Vympel wrote:Canonically, the Venator-class is the largest such ship. RotS, confirmed.
Trade Fed 'Core' ship should be larger than a Venator.

The Venator is a bit smaller than an ISD. The Core ship probably has a fair bit of bulk in it, though; likely the volume's almost or just as much as an ISD, I'm not sure, I'd have to check the sizes again. The total TF freighter, though, is about 3 km long, and the 'ball' is roughly a third of that... so... yeah.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-01 02:42pm

The ball is 800 meters wide.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-05-01 02:44pm

Imperator Galacticus wrote:Well according to this old Marvel comic, the Executor may be able to enter a planet's atmosphere with special modifications to its deflector shields. And really, with their technological ability to suspend multi-kilometer long objects in the atmospheres of gas giants or install repulsorlifts on 160 km battlestations, I honestly can't imagine why a ship like the Executor wouldn't have repulsorlifts and be able to venture into the skies of a terrestrial planet like Earth.

Wouldn't something that large.. double digits kilometers cause massive overpressure issues against the ground and like... flatten buildings/people/hapless furry creatures by passing over? Rather like the bit on how ID4's alien city-ships would flatten all sorts of things without even bothering with their weapons, because of displacement and such.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-05-01 03:01pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
Knife wrote:
Vympel wrote:Canonically, the Venator-class is the largest such ship. RotS, confirmed.
Trade Fed 'Core' ship should be larger than a Venator.
The Venator is a bit smaller than an ISD. The Core ship probably has a fair bit of bulk in it, though; likely the volume's almost or just as much as an ISD, I'm not sure, I'd have to check the sizes again. The total TF freighter, though, is about 3 km long, and the 'ball' is roughly a third of that... so... yeah.

IIRC, the SW.comdatabank has it at ~3km. So the ball would be ~1000meters which is just a bit shorter than a Venator, yet the Core ship is a sphere so it would have much higher volume.

It may not have as much mass, though, if the hypermatter silo's *which combined with the hypermatter fuel itself should mass more than the entire ship* are not in the Core ship then I guess it's possible for the Venator (which would have it's hypermatter and hypermatter storage onboard) would mass more.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-01 03:38pm

I just said that the diameter of the spheres is a little over 800 meters. It says so in the AOTC ICS.

Imperator Galacticus · Post by **Imperator Galacticus** » 2005-05-01 06:30pm

Nephtys wrote:
Imperator Galacticus wrote:Well according to this old Marvel comic, the Executor may be able to enter a planet's atmosphere with special modifications to its deflector shields. And really, with their technological ability to suspend multi-kilometer long objects in the atmospheres of gas giants or install repulsorlifts on 160 km battlestations, I honestly can't imagine why a ship like the Executor wouldn't have repulsorlifts and be able to venture into the skies of a terrestrial planet like Earth.
Wouldn't something that large.. double digits kilometers cause massive overpressure issues against the ground and like... flatten buildings/people/hapless furry creatures by passing over? Rather like the bit on how ID4's alien city-ships would flatten all sorts of things without even bothering with their weapons, because of displacement and such.

I fail to see what you're striving to say. That something the size of an SSD cruising just over a city like say...Los Angeles...would flatten everything underneath itself simply by doing a fly by of the place?

I'd guess that it depends on how fast said ship is traveling, what altitude it might cruise at, and whether it's using its ion thrusters at even a fraction of their full power (if they're as powerful as Curtis Saxton says that would be some serious ownage there), assuming the SSD's captain were to engage the ion drive for some purpose.

UCBooties · Post by **UCBooties** » 2005-05-01 06:48pm

In order for a Super Star Destroyer to escape a planet without the aformentioned repulser sled it would most likely need to get itself line up roughly perpendicular to the planet's surface so it could start exerting its drive engines against the planets gravity. I don't think we have seen any canonicla indications that its maneuvering thrusters are powerful enough to move somthing that massive into the vertical position necesary for escape.

To Imperator Galacticus, Nephtys is saying that having somthing with that much mass coming down through the atmosphere will literaly compress the air beneath it. This is regardless of whether or not the thrusters are being used and has nothing to do with cruising once the ship has entered the atmosphere.

Also, comics are extremely low level canon, so we're going to have to say for now, that a ship the size of the Executor can not enter or escape a Planet without added componants to expand its capabilities.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-01 06:51pm

Comics aren't as low as you think, although I think the Dark Horse titles are higher than the Marvel line.

UCBooties · Post by **UCBooties** » 2005-05-01 06:57pm

I'm not saying that they are totaly inadmissible, but am I mistaken in thinking they are considered lower than novels? I don't think we have seen anything near that sort of entry/escape capabilities in the films, so I'm going to take the word of the books over that of the comics because they at least gave a semi-plausible explanation for how they were getting that much mass out of the gravity well of Coruscant (leaving aside the assanine fact of it being burried there in the first place).

Imperator Galacticus · Post by **Imperator Galacticus** » 2005-05-01 07:07pm

UCBooties wrote: To Imperator Galacticus, Nephtys is saying that having somthing with that much mass coming down through the atmosphere will literaly compress the air beneath it. This is regardless of whether or not the thrusters are being used and has nothing to do with cruising once the ship has entered the atmosphere.

Okay, I understood it much better now, thank you.

And yeah, I imagine a novel would be higher on the scale than an antique comic, for obvious reasons. But that's just me. Personally I suspect that comic art of the movies however is higher than the status of the EU novels, simply because it's based on the events of a canon movie, similar to how the ICSs are said to be canon because they're based on the movies.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-05-01 08:24pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I just said that the diameter of the spheres is a little over 800 meters. It says so in the AOTC ICS.

Yeah, I saw your post right after I posted. Since the meat and potatoes of what I was saying didn't change for the ~200 meters, I didn't edit my post.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-05-01 08:32pm

Imperator Galacticus wrote: I fail to see what you're striving to say. That something the size of an SSD cruising just over a city like say...Los Angeles...would flatten everything underneath itself simply by doing a fly by of the place?

I'd guess that it depends on how fast said ship is traveling, what altitude it might cruise at, and whether it's using its ion thrusters at even a fraction of their full power (if they're as powerful as Curtis Saxton says that would be some serious ownage there), assuming the SSD's captain were to engage the ion drive for some purpose.

Here's where I was thinking of it from. Look at point 5.

http://www.ultimax.com/whitepapers/1996_3.html

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2005-05-01 10:35pm

UCBooties wrote:In order for a Super Star Destroyer to escape a planet without the aformentioned repulser sled it would most likely need to get itself line up roughly perpendicular to the planet's surface so it could start exerting its drive engines against the planets gravity. I don't think we have seen any canonicla indications that its maneuvering thrusters are powerful enough to move somthing that massive into the vertical position necesary for escape.

To Imperator Galacticus, Nephtys is saying that having somthing with that much mass coming down through the atmosphere will literaly compress the air beneath it. This is regardless of whether or not the thrusters are being used and has nothing to do with cruising once the ship has entered the atmosphere.

Also, comics are extremely low level canon, so we're going to have to say for now, that a ship the size of the Executor can not enter or escape a Planet without added componants to expand its capabilities.

Comics are still canon enough to NOT dismiss this evidence. In light of the passage, we must assume that some form of thrusters and/or engines are capable of allowing a ship like the Executor to enter and depart the atmosphere of a planet. Not to mention it's gravitation effects. While it could be said that the 'descent' mentioned is in regards to moving closer to the planet, it seems unlikely since in the Executor is already in a low orbit position. I also find it ludicrous that the engines and thrusters of said ship can accelerate, maintain and bring a ship like that into and out of hyperspace, yet somehow can't manage to handle going through a planet's atmosphere.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-05-01 10:50pm

We know that the Empire is capable of supporting moon-size objects in low orbit (DSII). Vader refers to 'Force Field Control' in the comic panel above. Perhaps 'twasn't on the ship itself, but rather below, on the planet-- some kind of Imperial facility equipped to bring starships down to ground in order for repairs/maintenance?

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2005-05-01 11:58pm

If the Republic wants to load troops onto neutronium impregneted starships on a planetary surface then they can certainly throw massive amounts of lottawatts into making sure their cities aren't crushed by the air pressure or adjacent buildings to the landing field being undesirably attracted to the ship.

How is a question best answered by someone with more knowledge of theoretical physics.