The Delegation of 2000 (minor ROTS Spoilers)

[The Original Nex]

Alright, so we know that Mon Mothma, Bail Organa and other Senators create a petition in Episode III that is known as the "Delegation of 2000" which protests Palpatine's amendments to the Constitution in the "name of security" and his appointment of Regional Governors in their given sectors. Fine. But there may be a continuity problem with the number of Senators in the Republic.

According to earlier sources (including the TPM Novelization IIRC) there are ~1000 Senators in the Galactic Republic, however, according to Episode III, the "Delegation" has 2000 signatures opposing Palpatine. That's more than double the 1000 Senators total alleged in earlier sources. Further more, these 2000 Senators are said to be less than they need to stop Palpatine's supermajority in the Senate. So there's at least 4001 Senators total as of RotS and probably many more.

Question is, how is this reconciled with the earlier 1000 Senators number? If anything the number of Senators should have gone down slightly given the secession of a small number of sectors, not gone up by more than 400%!

Can this be reconciled, or is it simply another "fact" that needs to be retconned?

Also, how does this effect the alleged number of sectors in the Galaxy?

[Imperator Galacticus]

I have two theories that may be able to explain this at the moment.

1) I think most likely that Palpatine added a substantial number of Senators along with the regional governors, only so that the ability of the Senate to act on crucial matters and against himself will be much harder. I haven't read the novelization yet, but from what I've been reading one reason Palpatine has been granted so many extraordinary powers during the war was because of the Senate's inability to act through the duration of the emergency.

2) Maybe the Republic conquered some of the Outer Rim territories from the Separatists which the Empire seems to possess by the ANH period and new senators have been installed for each new sector? Those territories do seem to be very vast indeed.

Number one sounds better to me. It reminds me of what Julius Caesar did with the Senate when he achieved total power, raising Senate membership from 300 to 900 so that they wouldn't be able to act as easily against him.

[Xenophobe3691]

Isn't there also a House?

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Senators in the Grand Conovocation Chamber could simply be a presidium of the larger Senate where many small Senators throw in their votes in caucuses with more important Senators (there is a much larger and older Senate building in the Sith War comics, with millions of Senators), or it could be Sectorial senators collecting signatures from subordinate planetary and system representatives from their Sector.

[Alyeska]

Its nice to see a tie in with Mothma and Organa, but I don't suppose there was any mention of Bel Iblis?

[Vympel]

Yes, Bel Iblis is in the RotS novelization.

I recently read the TPM novelization, I don't recall a statement saying there were 1,000 senators, though.

[Alyeska]

Made it in the novel eh? Well thats good to hear.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Yes, Bel Iblis is in the RotS novelization.

I recently read the TPM novelization, I don't recall a statement saying there were 1,000 senators, though.

There are geometric limitations on the number of Senate pods in the Grand Conovcation Chamber - 1,026 IIRC.

[The Original Nex]

The Senators in the Grand Conovocation Chamber could simply be a presidium of the larger Senate where many small Senators throw in their votes in caucuses with more important Senators (there is a much larger and older Senate building in the Sith War comics, with millions of Senators), or it could be Sectorial senators collecting signatures from subordinate planetary and system representatives from their Sector.

Perhaps the first, though the second won't work because mon Mothma explicitly says they have "the signatures of a full two thousand Senators" (emphasis mine), not Representatives, only Senators.

Even if the Grand Convocation Chamber is only a presidium of a larger body, would not the alleged number of sectors in the known galaxy (~1200 IIRC) be incorrect if there are indeed many thousands of Senators?

Also, the Sith War is set during an earlier incarnation of the Galactic Republic, and it is likely that the Sectorial Senate representation system had not yet been established, and Senators at that time may have represented only a system or two rather than an organized Sector.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Senators in the Grand Conovocation Chamber could simply be a presidium of the larger Senate where many small Senators throw in their votes in caucuses with more important Senators (there is a much larger and older Senate building in the Sith War comics, with millions of Senators), or it could be Sectorial senators collecting signatures from subordinate planetary and system representatives from their Sector.

Perhaps the first, though the second won't work because mon Mothma explicitly says they have "the signatures of a full two thousand Senators" (emphasis mine), not Representatives, only Senators.

Even if the Grand Convocation Chamber is only a presidium of a larger body, would not the alleged number of sectors in the known galaxy (~1200 IIRC) be incorrect if there are indeed many thousands of Senators?

Also, the Sith War is set during an earlier incarnation of the Galactic Republic, and it is likely that the Sectorial Senate representation system had not yet been established, and Senators at that time may have represented only a system or two rather than an organized Sector.

Well, it is possible that the Republic only confined the Core and some annular regions by sector-by-sector represenation, the rest ceding their vote to large leagues or other bodies, like the Trade Federation. No doubt by this stage in the war and the polarization wrought by the Seperatism, most of the sectors have fallen out of league or proxy representation or been reconquered and now have direct sectorial representation in the Galactic Republic. Remember that the ISB informs us that there are regions in the Empire containing "thousands of sectors."

[Ender]

A holonet news article said Palpatine shifted to give the core more voting power, he may have done that by increasing core senators.

[Mange]

Yes, Bel Iblis is in the RotS novelization.

I recently read the TPM novelization, I don't recall a statement saying there were 1,000 senators, though.

There are geometric limitations on the number of Senate pods in the Grand Conovcation Chamber - 1,026 IIRC.

According to John Knoll, there are over two thousand pods in the Senate chamber (I can't remember the exact figure).

Most of these scenes has been cut from the movie, but it was hinted during the C3 that some of them would be reinserted for the DVD (a.o. Bail Organa's office).

[000]

There are 1,024 pods in the senate. Assuming every pod has two senators (which isn't the case, but whatever) there's a very max of 2,048 senators. So no, it doesn't make sense.

One explanation is that the 2,000 number is the total number of sector and planetary senators (assuming that there's a bunch of sector senates). So basically 2,000 worlds. Or else the 2,000 number is the number of senators, aides, and such, which wouldn't make sense, but would make for a more impressive number than, say the Delegation of 20.

The best explanation I think is that Mothma and Organa basically pulled the number out of their collective ass. It's awfully convenient that it hasppens to be exactly 2,000. The Rebellion is known anyway for its rampant propaganda and disinformation-- I guess they were just starting early.

[Mange]

There are 1,024 pods in the senate. Assuming every pod has two senators (which isn't the case, but whatever) there's a very max of 2,048 senators. So no, it doesn't make sense.

One explanation is that the 2,000 number is the total number of sector and planetary senators (assuming that there's a bunch of sector senates). So basically 2,000 worlds. Or else the 2,000 number is the number of senators, aides, and such, which wouldn't make sense, but would make for a more impressive number than, say the Delegation of 20.

The best explanation I think is that Mothma and Organa basically pulled the number out of their collective ass. It's awfully convenient that it hasppens to be exactly 2,000. The Rebellion is known anyway for its rampant propaganda and disinformation-- I guess they were just starting early.

As I said, John Knoll said there were over 2,000 pods (it could've been 2,048) so that trumps over the VD stats. Besides, it could be that the Delegation of 2000 represents that number of planets. The Naboo senator for example, represents 36 planets alone, and according to the TPM:VD, Valorum's sector contained over a thousand planets.

[The Original Nex]

There are 1,024 pods in the senate. Assuming every pod has two senators (which isn't the case, but whatever) there's a very max of 2,048 senators. So no, it doesn't make sense.

One explanation is that the 2,000 number is the total number of sector and planetary senators (assuming that there's a bunch of sector senates). So basically 2,000 worlds. Or else the 2,000 number is the number of senators, aides, and such, which wouldn't make sense, but would make for a more impressive number than, say the Delegation of 20.

The best explanation I think is that Mothma and Organa basically pulled the number out of their collective ass. It's awfully convenient that it hasppens to be exactly 2,000. The Rebellion is known anyway for its rampant propaganda and disinformation-- I guess they were just starting early.

As I said, John Knoll said there were over 2,000 pods (it could've been 2,048) so that trumps over the VD stats. Besides, it could be that the Delegation of 2000 represents that number of planets. The Naboo senator for example, represents 36 planets alone, and according to the TPM:VD, Valorum's sector contained over a thousand planets.

The RotS Novelization is explicit. 2000 Senators, not planetary Representatives or other minor dignitaries. The novelization also says that each Senator controls a Sector not a lesser territorial state (although this may not be true of all Senators, RotS suggests that many do).

[The Original Nex]

Perhaps the first, though the second won't work because mon Mothma explicitly says they have "the signatures of a full two thousand Senators" (emphasis mine), not Representatives, only Senators.

Even if the Grand Convocation Chamber is only a presidium of a larger body, would not the alleged number of sectors in the known galaxy (~1200 IIRC) be incorrect if there are indeed many thousands of Senators?

Also, the Sith War is set during an earlier incarnation of the Galactic Republic, and it is likely that the Sectorial Senate representation system had not yet been established, and Senators at that time may have represented only a system or two rather than an organized Sector.

Well, it is possible that the Republic only confined the Core and some annular regions by sector-by-sector represenation, the rest ceding their vote to large leagues or other bodies, like the Trade Federation. No doubt by this stage in the war and the polarization wrought by the Seperatism, most of the sectors have fallen out of league or proxy representation or been reconquered and now have direct sectorial representation in the Galactic Republic. Remember that the ISB informs us that there are regions in the Empire containing "thousands of sectors."

Well, Naboo isn't a Core world and it had full Senatorial, Sectorial representation. So does Mon Calamari, Ryloth, Rodia and many other non-Core worlds. Although you probably do have a point, the Commercial Conglomerates do seem to control many systems and be in charge of their foreign affairs. However, this would most likely occur in the Outer Rim or Mid-Rim rather than areas closer to the Core.