New SW: Empire at War info, and more Battlefront 2.

[Ace Pace]

YES, goddamit how many people DON'T know of Ground Control(1, not 2).

Get Ground Control, should be 10-15$ by now.

I played GC... for five minutes. The whole 'my squad of guys didn't bring any demo charges and destroying this building is taking five minutes' thing put me off. I think it was the demo?

Anyway, that hanger is gold. Lowest common denominator game design strikes again!

Holy shit, a small part of the game thats a SIDELINE pisses you off so you dump the entire game?

[Illuminatus Primus]

I think his beef is that its indicative of a consistent "take this cookie-cutter and slash up the SW dough and sell it to fanboys" formula which produce slavish, derivative, and unimaginative games that are exactly like everything else, relying on the same tired, dry storyline and contents and locales from Star Wars to float it. Again.

If they tried for SW realism it would show they cared about the franchise. Judging from the past and looking at the fact that they took shortcuts and derivations, that doesn't look bright.

[Fire Fly]

Are there RTSs that don't involve the 'you start with a HQ and a constructor, now defeat the huge enemy base full of idiots' cliche?

YES, goddamit how many people DON'T know of Ground Control(1, not 2).

Get Ground Control, should be 10-15$ by now.

Ground Control was a damn good game (I liked 2). Now there was a game that could incorporate terrain, weather, game play, and balance. I especially loved that infantry units could enter and occupy buildings and turn them into fortresses. It was always thrilling, exciting, and you could actually lose to the AI.

LucasArts has always been weak on the strategy games. A game like Ground Control à la Star Wars would work perfectly with some minor modifications. Now why couldn't they have bought the Ground Control engine instead of Ages of Empire for god sake???? Would've been a much better idea, imo, and would've perfectly fit into the Star Wars universe.

[Vympel]

Empires at War will have this "feature" whereby ships shields don't work against torpedoes. Brilliant.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

I think his beef is that its indicative of a consistent "take this cookie-cutter and slash up the SW dough and sell it to fanboys" formula which produce slavish, derivative, and unimaginative games that are exactly like everything else, relying on the same tired, dry storyline and contents and locales from Star Wars to float it. Again.

If they tried for SW realism it would show they cared about the franchise. Judging from the past and looking at the fact that they took shortcuts and derivations, that doesn't look bright.

I think Ace Pace is referring to Stark's condemnation of Ground Control, not Battlefront 2.

But I agree with you totally. Probably more so than many on SD.net would prefer.

[Stark]

I didn't 'condemn' GC: the demo didn't impress me, so I didn't play it, thus I don't if it's a standard-ass RTS or not. Christ. Bad old me for thinking 'bleh, nothing special'.

Lucasarts has been weak on EVERY STARWARS GAME EVER. They have ALL had serious problems. Actually, the later Jedi shooters were *technically* okay, but the 'Dark Side [x] threatens the galaxy' plot got pretty fucking old. Just like 'playing through the movies'.

Alot of it isn't there fault, since I imagine they had to toe the line on EU crap, but really. Force Commander, anyone? Lucasarts DOESN'T CARE, because they know IDIOTS will buy anything with 'Star Wars' written on it.

[SPOOFE]

Lucasarts DOESN'T CARE, because they know IDIOTS will buy anything with 'Star Wars' written on it.

Ironically, in the past it's been the non-Star Wars games that have been Lucasarts' shining stars. Full Throttle, anyone? Day of the Tentacle?

Why they were never capable of extending that game quality into the very heart and soul of the company is beyond me.

[lordmakalpine]

I agree that Lucas had lost something over the years. The classic games like Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, and TIE Fighter/X-Wing were amazing games, and are still loads of fun to play now. Clone Wars, Jedi Outcast and Academy have really smashed the Star Wars gaming franchise around quite a bit.

[Stark]

I agree that Lucas had lost something over the years. The classic games like Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, and TIE Fighter/X-Wing were amazing games, and are still loads of fun to play now. Clone Wars, Jedi Outcast and Academy have really smashed the Star Wars gaming franchise around quite a bit.

Dark Forces (which I don't like, but eh) might be a good GAME, but it's a terrible STAR WARS game. And that's the point: Lucasarts churns out derivate genre-games like Dark FPS or Force RTS or Jedi Shooter. There is no honest effort to fit the games into the universe, or draw on the movies beyond 'Every game must have a Hoth level'. Frankly, if you changed the Stormies into something else, DF could be any kind of FPS, what with it's health bars and silly FPS guns. Excuse me while I'm unimpressed.

And the Force powers in the Jedi games! Sigh.

As an aside, Lucasarts games used to the really, really good. As SPOOFE mentions, Day of the Tentacle will remain a classic: it's good because it's CREATIVE and ORIGINAL and INTERESTING. Not 'SW FPS' or 'SW HW' or whatever.

Star Wars games, like Star Trek games, are in my opinon victims of fan loyalty. It's a shame, because both licenses have such scope.

[Vympel]

I think Dark Forces is a very good Star Wars game, actually- it wasn't derivative and IIRC all the locations were locations that haven't been beaten to death elsewhere.

Same goes for Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight.

Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast was also pretty darn good in that regard- it was Academy where it got derivative, with the levels we've seen all before- Tatooine, Hoth, Yavin blah blah blah- though the game was still good, dammit.

[White Haven]

Meh. Academy was a shoddy mod. Crappy level design, poorly thought-out new saber types, a few token ranged weapons, a couple new moves. Uh...where's the new game supposed to be again?

[Vympel]

I don't think they ever claimed it was a "new game" like say, Jedi Knight II was- I expected little more than an expansion based on it using the Quake 3 engine again.

[General Brock]

Empire at War was looking good, till I saw the screenshot of a Star Destroyer taking damage from a few A-wings. The SDs and even the AT ATs on surface battles look really underpowered. Of course, I don't know the context, but it does seem like a wussy concession to gameplay.

At least they are sticking to canon technology, instead of making the eye-candy up poorly, as in some Trek games. I don't know why they are so reluctant to apply 'realism', except that they might have to write the story and design the gameplay more cleverly.

[Stark]

Empire at War was looking good, till I saw the screenshot of a Star Destroyer taking damage from a few A-wings. The SDs and even the AT ATs on surface battles look really underpowered. Of course, I don't know the context, but it does seem like a wussy concession to gameplay.

It's not even necessary: if they had a brain they'd work it in intelligently, and make the game something a little different. But nah, it's LA It is very pretty, however.

At least they are sticking to canon technology, instead of making the eye-candy up poorly, as in some Trek games. I don't know why they are so reluctant to apply 'realism', except that they might have to write the story and design the gameplay more cleverly.

I remember the Trek games! Of *course* Nebulas fire bouncy balls that get more powerful with each bounce! I mean, clearly. In almost every episode!

I don't actually think it's a design problem: anyone can work out ways of representing SW and ST properly in a game of this nature. They don't WANT to, because they want the maximum number of potential players. Like Starcraft, everything must be like Starcraft.