EU canon questions

[18-Till-I-Die]

Now...i know this has been asked before, sorry, but i need some advice.

I'm ina debate...Palpatine at his peak vs Kerigan from StarCraft, and being the Warsie that i am i take the Palpy side...and this dude keeps saying the EU isnt canon except for the KOTOR games. This was in response to when i brought up the peak of Palpy's powers were flet-destroying force storms.

Now, i know there is some evidence to support the EU comics and novels being canon, i've heard it mentioned, but i've never seen it.

So if anyone could give me some advice, maybe soem evidence, i'd be very greatful.

[Lord Revan]

Now...i know this has been asked before, sorry, but i need some advice.

I'm ina debate...Palpatine at his peak vs Kerigan from StarCraft, and being the Warsie that i am i take the Palpy side...and this dude keeps saying the EU isnt canon except for the KOTOR games. This was in response to when i brought up the peak of Palpy's powers were flet-destroying force storms.

Now, i know there is some evidence to support the EU comics and novels being canon, i've heard it mentioned, but i've never seen it.

So if anyone could give me some advice, maybe soem evidence, i'd be very greatful.

well everything that's not N-level is Canon KOTOR1&2 are very low C-level with most of EU being higher. this is said on official site.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

I'm ina debate...Palpatine at his peak vs Kerigan from StarCraft, and being the Warsie that i am i take the Palpy side...and this dude keeps saying the EU isnt canon except for the KOTOR games. This was in response to when i brought up the peak of Palpy's powers were flet-destroying force storms.

Strange. Why make an exception only for the KOTOR games?

The fastest piles:
http://www.mrpoesmorgue.com/usvsd/sources.html
http://66.39.46.41/Empire/HateMail/RSA/Canon.html

In fact, ask him to explain why he might think it isn't. Generally, it is not a great argument to ask people to prove a negative, but in my experience, a common assumption is that if something is licensed, it at least has some validity - a little assumption that causes us trouble as we have to point out that the Star Trek novels generally aren't canon in any way. So why would he start out assuming they have no validity?

[Lord Revan]

I'm ina debate...Palpatine at his peak vs Kerigan from StarCraft, and being the Warsie that i am i take the Palpy side...and this dude keeps saying the EU isnt canon except for the KOTOR games. This was in response to when i brought up the peak of Palpy's powers were flet-destroying force storms.

Strange. Why make an exception only for the KOTOR games?

probaly because SW weapons are nerfed due to game mechanics in KOTOR series.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I'm ina debate...Palpatine at his peak vs Kerigan from StarCraft, and being the Warsie that i am i take the Palpy side...and this dude keeps saying the EU isnt canon except for the KOTOR games. This was in response to when i brought up the peak of Palpy's powers were flet-destroying force storms.

Strange. Why make an exception only for the KOTOR games?

Personally...i think it's cause Palpatine wasnt tossing out TTs of energy in KOTOR...and he wants his little Brood Queen to pwn the old fart.

I honestly cant imagine why they'd make an exceptoion either. Like the games are somehow higher than books that reference the movies directly.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Another poster tried to direct them towards this site, but it was dismissed because "Wong's site is so biased. You can tell...cause he named it Stardestroyer.net for Christ's sake!"

Being the SD.Net denizen that i am i tried to take up for the site...but i cant argue with eight people at once. I think a few of them are folks who got banned here, one is named T-1000 and says he has "personal experience with Mike Wong's bias!" so i get the idea he got flamed and booted out of here before.

[Lord Revan]

Another poster tried to direct them towards this site, but it was dismissed because "Wong's site is so biased. You can tell...cause he named it Stardestroyer.net for Christ's sake!"

Being the SD.Net denizen that i am i tried to take up for the site...but i cant argue with eight people at once. I think a few of them are folks who got banned here, one is named T-1000 and says he has "personal experience with Mike Wong's bias!" so i get the idea he got flamed and booted out of here before.

When they try post agument on bias on things, that everybody and their dog can check you know it's no use debating them (and yeah T-1000 (if he's the same) was banned for being a troll).

[Jim Raynor]

What's there to even debate? I like SC, but even I have to say that there's almost no information on it that's not game mechanics, and what little exists is pretty low end for scifi. Is there any information about Kerrigan's abilities?

And yeah, these guys sound like dumbasses.

[Stofsk]

there is precisely fuck all information about Kerrigan's abilities which ISN'T game mechanics. IE this is impossible to debate objectively. You might as well say Kerrigan will get down on her knees and blow Palpatine because, frankly, that's worth more than saying "OMG she'll pwn j00 LOL."

If you want to include game mechanics (you shouldn't, but whatev):

• she can cloak herself, but not for an unlimited time. In response, Palpatine can use the Force to cloak himself as well and wait her out.
• She can cause a 'psi storm' that damages you, but it works over several seconds and hero units like Tassadar and Fenix have enough hitpoints to survive (and if Palpatine were a SC unit, he'd be a hero too... if that makes any sense. Bah SC players will know what I mean). Problem with psi storm is that it's area-effect, not directed. So in response, Palps can throw force lightning and fry that bitch.
• She can 'consume' zerglings to increase her energy. THis won't help her because there aren't any zerglings in this scenario. Technically speaking, Force users or Sith can consume humans to do the same (hey, he said KOTOR is canon right? Darth Malak at the Starforge. If he knew it, Palps ought to as well, throw it back in his face)
• I forgot what other spells she had. Ensnare i think it was. Yes, and that will do jack shit given that Palpatine has FL, choke, and so on at his disposal.
• Melee... she's got some bizarre 'whip' thing that can damage tanks as well as chop marines wearing battle armour in half. But he's got a lightsaber.

This thing is fucked. Palpatine bitchslaps Kerrigan, who becomes his slave.

[Lord Revan]

that whip thing is her secondary limbs (she has 8 limb in total (IIRC)).

[18-Till-I-Die]

The argument is, the crux anyway, that she is faster than him and could hit him with a psi-storm and weaken him then kill him with her bare hands.

There is another debate where it's argued that yes, the IoM would loose to the Empire in a battle but they wouldnt fight outright...cause one Imperial assassin would sneak onto Coruscant and kill Palpatine. I'm in that one too...my Warsie pride.

[Stofsk]

I feel a great disturbance in the Force. As though a million voices cried out "OMG the stupid, it burns!" and were suddenly silenced.

How is the Imperium assassin going to get past Darth Vader? The Royal Guard? Actually you know what? Don't tell me. The SC thing is what I'm really laughing about. Faster than Palpatine? Bullshit. Point out Force-speed. If Jedi can do it, it's possible Sith can as well.

[Lord Revan]

There's that Revan, Malak and The Exile are all early to mid 30's, Darth Sidious is in 50's and 60's during the PT and in his 90's during ROTJ so his sure as hell a 20+ level Sith Lord (probaly even 30+ level) so would know every skill there is in KOTOR2

[Stofsk]

There's that Revan, Malak and The Exile are all early to mid 30's, Darth Sidious is in 50's and 60's during the PT and in his 90's during ROTJ so his sure as hell a 20+ level Sith Lord (probaly even 30+ level) so would know every skill there is in KOTOR2

That's not how it works though, Revan. Heh. Jolee, when you first meet him, is in his 60s or older, but he's only a low level Jedi consular.

For the record though, Palpatine is a 20 Level character in the SW D20 RPG. I can give the stats - only they'd be completely useless for a real debate. And 18 has enough to go with already. Just say "the movies trump what meager abilities Kerrigan has demonstrated in the game" and that should be enough. Otherwise you're dealing with a troll and you can be doing better things with your time. Like learning to sew or... making a milkshake. Christ, anything.

Kerrigan vs Palpatine. Holy fuck, that is STILL stupid.

[Vympel]

It's possible? Bah? Palpatine is the greatest lightsabre duellist in the galaxy.

[Lord Revan]

There's that Revan, Malak and The Exile are all early to mid 30's, Darth Sidious is in 50's and 60's during the PT and in his 90's during ROTJ so his sure as hell a 20+ level Sith Lord (probaly even 30+ level) so would know every skill there is in KOTOR2

That's not how it works though, Revan. Heh. Jolee, when you first meet him, is in his 60s or older, but he's only a low level Jedi consular.

For the record though, Palpatine is a 20 Level character in the SW D20 RPG. I can give the stats - only they'd be completely useless for a real debate. And 18 has enough to go with already. Just say "the movies trump what meager abilities Kerrigan has demonstrated in the game" and that should be enough. Otherwise you're dealing with a troll and you can be doing better things with your time. Like learning to sew or... making a milkshake. Christ, anything.

Kerrigan vs Palpatine. Holy fuck, that is STILL stupid.

well Jolee has also been in exile for an unknown time (he ran after he was knighted IIRC) Palpy on the other hand has been ploting to over throw the Jedi for all his life, but it irrelevant as Palpatine has show abilities that own Kerrigan in both the OT and PT (unless those are lower canon then KOTOR now )

[Stofsk]

It's possible? Bah? Palpatine is the greatest lightsabre duellist in the galaxy.

We'll find out later this month. I bought my tickets, have you?

[vakundok]

Well ...
1. Palpatine directly controlls the imperial fleet. Kerrigen directly controlls the Zerg. While I would say that the Zerg are more numerous, but she likely uses cerebrates for that purpose.
2. I do not know about Palpatine unarmed combat capabilities. In Liberty's crusade, it was said that the test for the young potential ghosts was to kill a human pointing a gun at him/her (or at someone with strong emotional ties) before that human could fire.
3. Joruus C'baoth said that even the emperor was not capable to completely and permanently modify others' mind. I do not know whether it still stands or not. Kerrigan was capable to do it.
4. Kerrigen psionic storm is nothing compared to Palpatine's storm.

Palpatine wins.

[Stark]

Just tell them to shut up and go see ROTS. I get the strange feeling any foolish vs Kerrigan nonsense will be put to rest there.


Heh. Kerrigan. That's lame.

[Illuminatus Primus]

It's possible? Bah? Palpatine is the greatest lightsabre duellist in the galaxy.

Proof? That makes Luke pretty damn incredible by DE then.

[wolveraptor]

Psionic abilities tend to have only mental effects, where as the Force can truly affect both the physical and mental. I find it rather implausible that Da Palpmeister (tm) couldn't block a psionic storm. If anything, his telekenetic abilities far surpass his physical dueling abilities.

Also, isn't it true that the handle of his lightsabre is made of some alloy that cannot be cut by lightsabres?

[18-Till-I-Die]

Actually...interestingly we see Darth Maul's saber get cut in half so...the hilts can be cut by lightsabers.

I agree, that Palpy's force powers far exceed that of Kerigan, but convincing some people of that is...problematic.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Also, isn't it true that the handle of his lightsabre is made of some alloy that cannot be cut by lightsabres?

No. I've actually never heard that before.

While it's true that there are some metals that cannot be or are difficult for a lightsabre to cut through (mostly due to things like density or other properties), I've never heard of such a material being used for a sabre handle.

[Kurgan]

Only KOTOR is canon in the EU?

This sounds suspiciously like he's been hoodwinked by SuperShadow, as SS.com's site has long put forth the absurd notion that GL only actually reviews the video games and comic books, and "chose" the KOTOR games as being canon, and the rest of the EU is non-canon. KOTOR happens to be both a comic series (first) and a video game series.

I could even see the development of it as people wrote in and told SS about the KOTOR games, and he wasn't familiar with them. Then (I assume after he played and liked them) he told everyone that GL had accepted them as "canon." SS sounds like he was into the EU early on, but gave up on it, and decided it was all crap (except for KOTOR).

I'd ask him if realizes that SuperShadow is a hoax... just in case.

[GeneralTacticus]

3. Joruus C'baoth said that even the emperor was not capable to completely and permanently modify others' mind. I do not know whether it still stands or not. Kerrigan was capable to do it.

Well, C'Boath was also completely insane and suffering from a severe case of megalomania, so...

Anyway, yes, Palpatine wins. If Kerrigan had anywhere near his level of power, I doubt she'd need Cerebrates to control the Zerg. Nor would she need to bother persuading people like Mengsk and Raynor to help her - simple mind control would have been sufficient, easier, and much safer.