Buddhism=essentially atheist?

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-05-03 03:24pm

My father, for all the fundie he is, has a fair bit of knowledge regarding other religions. Once we were discussing Eastern religions, and in passing he mentioned that Buddhism is essentially atheist; while many people venerate Siddartha Gautama, the Buddha, the core of the religion is upon finding 'nirvana' for oneself, through one's actions in life, and no deity is worshipped.

Is this correct? It floated to mind when reading the reincarnation thread, and I didn't want to hijack it...

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2005-05-03 03:46pm

I took a Chinese Religions course once to fill out a requirement. While I don't remember much about Bhuddism, there were definately a lot of mystical and mythological beliefs in it.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2005-05-03 04:01pm

Those are from other religions. And Buddhism's from India.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2005-05-03 04:02pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Those are from other religions. And Buddhism's from India.

Ghetto edit:

And if Buddhism was from China, Siddartha's name would be like: Yao Ming or something. Not Siddartha Guatama something-something.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-05-03 04:03pm

Buddhism is sort of an attaché to a religion, it's not really got much to say about gods, you can believe in one and be buddhist, or you can equally be an atheist and still be buddhist. IIRC the siddharta was hindu.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-05-03 04:29pm

to sum it up, yes. as there is no magic sky pixie in buddhism to satisfy, and the primary goal of the system is to basically overcome human suffering, which is seen as an inherent condition of being human. once you figure out how to do that, no more reincarnation, and you get to go on to a higher plane of existence, effectively. no belief in a higher power required whatsoever.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-05-03 05:18pm

It seems that there is still a belief in the human soul, and an odd belief that suffering is something to be overcome... odd to me, that is.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-05-03 05:36pm

Zero132132 wrote:It seems that there is still a belief in the human soul, and an odd belief that suffering is something to be overcome... odd to me, that is.

the vast majority of religions believe in a soul of some sort. i don't see what's so odd about that.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2005-05-03 05:36pm

Buddhism is an atheist religion. Souls, mysticism etc. don't matter, just that no god is involved.

Though, there seem to be a few theist interpretations out there.

Wikipedia wrote:In the Japanese religion of Shintoism Buddha is seen as a Kami (god). The Bahá'í Faith states he was an independent Manifestation of God. Siddhartha Gautama is thought to have been sanctified by the Roman Catholic Church as Saint Josaphat based on a mistaken account of his conversion to Christianity. Some Muslims believe that Gautama Buddha is Dhul-Kifl, one of the prophets mentioned in the Qur'an.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-05-03 05:49pm

Some sects of Buddhism actually do venerate people who reach nirvana in a manner approximating that of a God. Other Buddhist sects adopted many Hindu gods into their pantheons, so to claim that all Buddhists are atheists is to oversimplify. That said, the other posters are correct in that the central tenants of Buddhism do not require the worship of anything.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » 2005-05-03 07:49pm

It boils down to this (as we visited a Buddhist monastery and asked this of one of the monks):

You can worship gods if you want to. If belief in them helps you reach nirvana, go for it.

Buddha's not a god though.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-05-03 08:20pm

I consider it a religion, since it still believes in a form of supernatural power, although that power is within you and not in the form of any specific being. If you are a buddhist, I do not consider you to be an atheist.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-05-03 08:53pm

There are gods incorporated into Japanese Buddhism, but it's Shinto- and in Shinto, you don't have to believe in the gods to pray to them. It's just a thing you do.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2005-05-03 11:31pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Those are from other religions. And Buddhism's from India.

I am aware of that. That Chinese Religions course covered all the major religions practiced in China, no matter where they came from.

I have to agree with Guardsman Bass that Bhuddists aren't atheist. Their central beliefs about souls and reincarnation can't be backed up with evidence.

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-05-04 01:19am

I like Buddhism. It's quite a laid back religion. I appreciate any group whose central tenet is "chill out".

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2005-05-04 01:31am

I would have to say the Buddhism is probably the most reasonable organized religion to date. Chill out, search for inner peace, be compassionate, no preaching, no proselytizing, no guilt tripping or creation mythical crap and no magical all powerful sky pixie demanding your worship or eternal damnation.

However, its not perfect, and their are buddhist "fundies" out their as well (the ones who've lit themselves on fire at protests, or the hardcore monks that get rid of all but the most basic living requirments, etc) But at least they never advocate crusading, intolerance, or holy war against others who dont follow them.

If I was ever forced into following a religion it'd be buddhism.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2005-05-04 01:38am

Icehawk wrote:However, its not perfect, and their are buddhist "fundies" out their as well (the ones who've lit themselves on fire at protests, or the hardcore monks that get rid of all but the most basic living requirments, etc) But at least they never advocate crusading, intolerance, or holy war against others who dont follow them.

That's the good thing about it, most other fundies blow shit up (Or at least advocate it). Buddhist fundies take it out on themselves.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2005-05-04 01:46am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bhuddism based around self denial of everything that gives you pleasure? I remember something about having to desire nothing before being able to reach Nirvana or something. Doesn't sound very cool to me.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2005-05-04 01:49am

I am curious about something though. In recent anime I watched, in one a few of the episodes that took place in medieval Japan, the buddhists were portrayed as bad in the sense that they appeared to be aggressively driving out the original Japanese religion and put a horrible curse on one of the main characters.

Of course, its a fictional fantasy story, but anime tends to have alot of real cultural/historical stuff in it like that and I have to wonder, does Buddhism actually have blood on its hands that we don't typically hear about?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-05-04 01:57am

Jim Raynor wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bhuddism based around self denial of everything that gives you pleasure? I remember something about having to desire nothing before being able to reach Nirvana or something. Doesn't sound very cool to me.

I though the original story about Siddartha was the extravagant life of his high ranking hindu caste didn't do it for him, so he tried the extremism of (IIRC) Jainism. The legend says during this period he got so thin he could grab his spine through the front of his abdomen. This didn't work for him either. So he came up with Budhism or "the middle path.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-05-04 01:59am

Anyway, Budhism does have deities so they can't be atheist. Atheism says there are NO gods. Zero. To believe in any gods, even if you don't worship them or even care about what they think is not atheism.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-05-04 02:05am

Darth Servo wrote:Anyway, Budhism does have deities so they can't be atheist. Atheism says there are NO gods. Zero. To believe in any gods, even if you don't worship them or even care about what they think is not atheism.

You don't have to believe in the gods to be a Buddhist, though.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2005-05-04 03:28am

Most people who are buddhist by default (i.e. born into the religion) are likely to be nominally deist in that they will have vague references to "god" if it suits them. then when you consider that most chinese buddhists are very likely to be nominal Taoist and ALSO nominal followers of "traditional chinese folk religion" it all becomes very confusing, so we just go to the temple, whichever one, light some joss-sticks and pray just because we can. then we go and feast. because there is nothing that can't be turned into an excuse to feast.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2005-05-04 03:39am

Icehawk wrote:I am curious about something though. In recent anime I watched, in one a few of the episodes that took place in medieval Japan, the buddhists were portrayed as bad in the sense that they appeared to be aggressively driving out the original Japanese religion and put a horrible curse on one of the main characters.

Of course, its a fictional fantasy story, but anime tends to have alot of real cultural/historical stuff in it like that and I have to wonder, does Buddhism actually have blood on its hands that we don't typically hear about?

AFAIK Buddhism itself doesn't. I've never heard of Buddhist wars, or persecution. In Chinese history there were some times in when the emperor was a Buddhist fundie and the most they could do was promote Buddhism. The worst I think was probably just not caring about the nation.

In Japan there was a so called "monk soldier problem", before that time because the emperor was a fundie, Buddhist temples rose into power and became like nobles. Later on these temples hired people and trained them to protect their land. When there were territory problems, these soldiers were sent to fight. No belief based war I think.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-05-04 03:53am

Dalton wrote:I like Buddhism. It's quite a laid back religion. I appreciate any group whose central tenet is "chill out".

Interestingly, I have heard of Buddhist fundies starting riots somewhere in the world. Plus the infamous self-immolation story from the Vietnam war. Just goes to show, there are fanatics everywhere.