Vader's Injuries and Cloning

[Stravo]

We get hints in the ROTS trailers that Anakin cannot use the Force through his bionic arm and that GL himself states in ROTJ commentary that Vader can never achieve his potential because the cybernetic parts interfere with his connection to the Force.

If this is true then why didn't Vader attempt to have cloned limbs and such grafted onto his broken body? A society that can effortlessly clone trillions of warriors shouldn't have a problem cloning parts for the second most powerful man in the Empire no?

Frankly if they can bring back the wreck of his body to live on in a walking iron lung they can certainly start chopping away the machine bits and using cloned material as replacements once he's stabilized. And for the "cybernetic parts are as good or better than natural parts" crowd that's not quite true if they hamper his ability to use the force now is it?

If there are pertinent ROTS plot spoilers then please be aware that I am spoiler free so make sure you tiny text them.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Because in terms of the Force, clones suck compared to originals.

Even when you do all the right things (or cheat) to avoid and prevent cloning madness, it seems that the Force still fucking hates clones.

[Stravo]

Because in terms of the Force, clones suck compared to originals.

Even when you do all the right things (or cheat) to avoid and prevent cloning madness, it seems that the Force still fucking hates clones.

Is there any evidence that cloned limbs would drive the person mad?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

No, that's patently absurd.

[Vympel]

We get hints in the ROTS trailers that Anakin cannot use the Force through his bionic arm

How do you mean?

We've seen Vader channel the force through his bionic arms in ANH and TESB- strangling Admiral Motti, yanking the gun out of Han's hand, flipping the carbonite chamber switch, etc.

What Vader's bionics do mean, however, is that he can never channel force lightning- or defend himself against it- except maybe with his lightsabre. RotS VD. Which makes sense, given that he's practically a badly injured torso, dependent on cybernetics to keep him alive. I wonder though if he would've been able to conjure lightning through his one good arm, before Obi-Wan took that too.

Of course, that he was turned into so much less than what he was is not in dispute.

[Kurgan]

Clone Army. Send them to the Valley of the Jedi for processing. Flash brain implant of Jedi Friggin' Master. Put them in Dark Trooper armor threaded with Cortosis enhanced with shield generators.

'Nuff said.

As for Vader, okay, fine, put a Lightning Gun (from Quake3) into his bionic wrists (al la Boba Fett). Block that Jedi scum!

Alternately for Vader, transfer is soul into a cloned body (or bionic Grevious style full robot). Done. Ownage.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Damn it, Vympel, you did it again!

[Vympel]

GODDAMIT!

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

How do you mean?

We've seen Vader channel the force through his bionic arms in ANH and TESB- strangling Admiral Motti, yanking the gun out of Han's hand, flipping the carbonite chamber switch, etc.

You screwed up again, Vympel. You are supposed to put a Size tag on the head and on the end of the area you want to resize. I want you to use the Preview function from now on to make sure you get this important procedure right, got it?

NecronLord or any other mod that comes by, fix it please.

EDIT: Too late. Darn it!

I always took it to mean that he can't induct the Force into the Material Plane from the Astral Plane with his cybernetics, which makes sense (astralogically). Of course you can pass the Force through the arms once inducted. The Force can after all flow through matter.

Personally, I think that when Anakin got his limb cut off, part of his Soul Mass evaporated with the loss of so much of the body the soul attaches to. So perhaps even if he cloned a limb, he would not recover that force ability, because the soul mass is permanently unsalvageable, back into the chaos Greater Current of the Force.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I think it could be possible to sort of weave both explenations together.

[Stark]

<snip>
I always took it to mean that he can't induct the Force into the Material Plane from the Astral Plane with his cybernetics, which makes sense (astralogically). Of course you can pass the Force through the arms once inducted. The Force can after all flow through matter.

Personally, I think that when Anakin got his limb cut off, part of his Soul Mass evaporated with the loss of so much of the body the soul attaches to. So perhaps even if he cloned a limb, he would not recover that force ability, because the soul mass is permanently unsalvageable, back into the chaos Greater Current of the Force.

Are you serious? Are you Paul Hume?

[Stofsk]

What Vader's bionics do mean, however, is that he can never channel force lightning- or defend himself against it- except maybe with his lightsabre. RotS VD. Which makes sense, given that he's practically a badly injured torso, dependent on cybernetics to keep him alive. I wonder though if he would've been able to conjure lightning through his one good arm, before Obi-Wan took that too.

Why shouldn't he be able to do the 'dissipate energy' trick, as per the infamous Han Solo quickdraw scene from ESB?

Also, why is this spoilerised? It's a minor spoiler at best, and really only relevant to these kinds of discussions. It doesn't give away any plot developments in ROTS, does it? Do you know something you're not saying? *squints eyes suspiciously*

[Spanky The Dolphin]

What Vader's bionics do mean, however, is that he can never channel force lightning- or defend himself against it- except maybe with his lightsabre. RotS VD. Which makes sense, given that he's practically a badly injured torso, dependent on cybernetics to keep him alive. I wonder though if he would've been able to conjure lightning through his one good arm, before Obi-Wan took that too.

Why shouldn't he be able to do the 'dissipate energy' trick, as per the infamous Han Solo quickdraw scene from ESB?

Also, why is this spoilerised? It's a minor spoiler at best, and really only relevant to these kinds of discussions. It doesn't give away any plot developments in ROTS, does it? Do you know something you're not saying? *squints eyes suspiciously*

I think it's because Force Lightning is sort of different from normal forms of energy.

[Vympel]

EDIT: Too late. Darn it!

Indeed. By an entire 2 mins. I am 2 fast for j00!

I liked Kaz's explanation. What's lost is lost.

[Vympel]

Also, why is this spoilerised? It's a minor spoiler at best, and really only relevant to these kinds of discussions. It doesn't give away any plot developments in ROTS, does it? Do you know something you're not saying? *squints eyes suspiciously*

Because I don't think Stravo knows how much Vader loses by the end of RotS. His use of the phrase "bionic arm" reveals he likely is unaware that both of Vader's arms are robotic, never mind that so are his legs

[Stravo]

And another thing. Anakin's arm gets chopped off in AOTC. Why couldn't it be reattached? Its right there on the fucking ground. This isn't Luke's hand falling down a shaft into the gas giant of Bespin. Anakin's arm is RIGHT THERE. Are their surgical techniques unable to fuse an arm back together but can bring back a guy that lost most of his body to lava?

Also the Star Wars databanks on the Clone Troopers specifically state that one of the advantages of the clone army is that they have spare parts available at all times and all the parts are interchangable making it easy to replace limbs and organs. They can replace limbs and organs on a clone trooper but not the second most powerful man in the galaxy?

[Stofsk]

Speculation? Perhaps clone limbs were not in great supply at that point, and Anakin realised he would be needed out on the field. Perhaps he elected to undergo cybernetic surgery, for whatever reason?

[Vympel]

And another thing. Anakin's arm gets chopped off in AOTC. Why couldn't it be reattached? Its right there on the fucking ground. This isn't Luke's hand falling down a shaft into the gas giant of Bespin. Anakin's arm is RIGHT THERE. Are their surgical techniques unable to fuse an arm back together but can bring back a guy that lost most of his body to lava?

Also the Star Wars databanks on the Clone Troopers specifically state that one of the advantages of the clone army is that they have spare parts available at all times and all the parts are interchangable making it easy to replace limbs and organs. They can replace limbs and organs on a clone trooper but not the second most powerful man in the galaxy?

Re-attaching limbs may possibly not apply when the limb was removed with a lightsabre. Sizzle sizzle. That's just a theory.

[18-Till-I-Die]

It might be problematic in other ways...

Palpatine may have put failsafes in his armor to insure his continued...gratitude...and he may actually not be able to survive without his cybernetic parts now.

I mean, literally it may have a failsafe like 'remove bionic arm for clone parts, shut down lungs' or such. It would make sure he never got back to full power and wouldnt be a threat to Palpy.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

And another thing. Anakin's arm gets chopped off in AOTC. Why couldn't it be reattached? Its right there on the fucking ground. This isn't Luke's hand falling down a shaft into the gas giant of Bespin. Anakin's arm is RIGHT THERE. Are their surgical techniques unable to fuse an arm back together but can bring back a guy that lost most of his body to lava?

Perhaps a simple matter of time? If the arm is left alone for too long, it'd begin to decay. Add the difficulty created by the lightsaber, it might no longer fuse neatly and a bionic arm might be easier to fuse.

[Stravo]

And another thing. Anakin's arm gets chopped off in AOTC. Why couldn't it be reattached? Its right there on the fucking ground. This isn't Luke's hand falling down a shaft into the gas giant of Bespin. Anakin's arm is RIGHT THERE. Are their surgical techniques unable to fuse an arm back together but can bring back a guy that lost most of his body to lava?

Perhaps a simple matter of time? If the arm is left alone for too long, it'd begin to decay. Add the difficulty created by the lightsaber, it might no longer fuse neatly and a bionic arm might be easier to fuse.

Or a cloned arm easier to grow and attach later? Its been two years (IIRC) between AOTC and ROTS. NO one said "Anakin, hero of the Republic we've got this arm waiting for you. Should be a nice out patient procedure." Anakin replies "You know what, I like this bionic limb better, I'm not as strong with the Force now as I used to be but black makes it so easy to accessorize."

As to the sizzle sizzle of lightsaber burns, surely they could trim away the burned tissue and regrow the missing length. They can replace clone trooper limbs lost in combat wholesale, Anakin didn't rate better than a ground pounder? Plus you have the added minus of him not being able to access the force as easily because of the limb giving impetus to replacing it.

[Vympel]

There'd probably be no point to a cloned arm- it wouldn't be Anakin's original. In that circumstance, a droid arm would be superior.

[Stravo]

There'd probably be no point to a cloned arm- it wouldn't be Anakin's original. In that circumstance, a droid arm would be superior.

But if cybernetic parts interfere with a Jedi's connection to the force wouldn't a cloned organic arm prove far superior for Anakin's purposes?

[Knife]

There'd probably be no point to a cloned arm- it wouldn't be Anakin's original. In that circumstance, a droid arm would be superior.

But if cybernetic parts interfere with a Jedi's connection to the force wouldn't a cloned organic arm prove far superior for Anakin's purposes?

It's possible that it may go against religious beliefs of Jedi. Reverence of life and all that, to grow an organizim just to hack it's arm off an use it for your self. Talk about attachment.

[Vympel]

But if cybernetic parts interfere with a Jedi's connection to the force wouldn't a cloned organic arm prove far superior for Anakin's purposes?

I don't think they interfere. The problem is part of your life just got hacked off. Replacing that with a surrogate doesn't give back what you lost. At least, that's my theory. It's the loss of the limb that's the issue, more than what you replace it with.