Beast's real mark devalued to '616'

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2005-05-04 09:32am

I have no idea where to put this story but this is too funny not to share

Linky

Satanists, apocalypse watchers and heavy metal guitarists may have to adjust their demonic numerology after a recently deciphered ancient biblical text revealed that 666 is not the fabled Number of the Beast after all.

A fragment from the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament, dating to the Third century, gives the more mundane 616 as the mark of the Antichrist.

Ellen Aitken, a professor of early Christian history at McGill University, said the discovery appears to spell the end of 666 as the devil's prime number.

"This is a very nice piece to find," Dr. Aitken said. "Scholars have argued for a long time over this, and it now seems that 616 was the original number of the beast."

The tiny fragment of 1,500-year-old papyrus is written in Greek, the original language of the New Testament, and contains a key passage from the Book of Revelation.

Where more conventional versions of the Bible give 666 as the "number of the beast," or the sign of the anti-Christ whose coming is predicted in the book's apocalyptic verses, the older version uses the Greek letters signifying 616.

"This is very early confirmation of that number, earlier than any other text we've found of that passage," Dr. Aitken said. "It's probably about 100 years before any other version."

The fragment was part of a hoard of previously illegible manuscripts discovered in an ancient garbage dump outside the Egyptian city of Oxyrhynchus. Although the papyrus was first excavated in 1895, it was badly discoloured and damaged. Classics scholars at Oxford University were only recently able to read it using new advanced imaging techniques.

Elijah Dann, a professor of philosophy and religion at the University of Toronto, said the new number is unlikely to make a dent in the popularity of 666.

"Otherwise, a lot of sermons would have to be changed and a lot of movies rewritten," he said with a laugh. "There's always someone with an active imagination who can put another interpretation on it.

"It just shows you that when you study something as cryptic and mystic as the Book of Revelation there's an almost unlimited number of interpretations."

The book is thought to have been written by the disciple John and according to the King James Bible, the traditional translation of the passage reads: "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

But Dr. Aitken said that translation was drawn from much later versions of the New Testament than the fragment found in Oxyrhynchus. "When we're talking about the early biblical texts, we're always talking about copies and they are copies made, at best, 150 to 200 years after [the original] was written," she said.

"They can have mistakes in the copying, changes for political or theological reasons ... it's like a detective story piecing it all together."

Dr. Aitken said, however, that scholars now believe the number in question has very little to do the devil. It was actually a complicated numerical riddle in Greek, meant to represent someone's name, she said.

"It's a number puzzle -- the majority opinion seems to be that it refers to [the Roman emperor] Nero."

Revelation was actually a thinly disguised political tract, with the names of those being criticized changed to numbers to protect the authors and early Christians from reprisals. "It's a very political document," Dr. Aitken said. "It's a critique of the politics and society of the Roman empire, but it's written in coded language and riddles."

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-05-04 10:41am

"They can have mistakes in the copying, changes for political or theological reasons ... it's like a detective story piecing it all together."

But, but the Bible is infallible.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2005-05-04 10:51am

Just wait a few months, when there'll be a special Mark Down of the Beast to $5.99.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2005-05-04 11:49am

Revelation was actually a thinly disguised political tract, with the names of those being criticized changed to numbers to protect the authors and early Christians from reprisals. "It's a very political document," Dr. Aitken said. "It's a critique of the politics and society of the Roman empire, but it's written in coded language and riddles."

So Revelation is just a glorified political editorial then? It would be interesting to reconstruct the evolution of its various incarnations and interpretations thereof through the ages...

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2005-05-04 12:09pm

So the number of the Beast is the same number as the normal Marvel Universe?

That explains a lot...

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2005-05-04 12:21pm

Isn't Satan so smart?

He convinced us that the number of the beast is 666, so when he comes in wearing the number 616, no one will be none the wiser.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2005-05-04 12:25pm

Patrick Degan wrote:Just wait a few months, when there'll be a special Mark Down of the Beast to $5.99.

I love SDN humor.

Post by **Coyote** » 2005-05-04 01:23pm

"This millenium only, 'Blue Light Special of the Beast,' now only $5.50!"

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2005-05-04 02:06pm

No wonder I've kept accidentally calling different demons all these years; I've had the Wrong Number of the Beast!

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2005-05-04 02:17pm

Quick. Someone needs to inform the Yellow Pages!

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-05-04 04:55pm

Interesting. I always thought that it was to represent Nero and give the Christians under the Roman persecution hope, but I didn't consider that the Bible is always a maze of riddles and hidden messages.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-05-04 05:13pm

Next thing you know, Satan's number will be the good ole 69. Oh yeah...

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2005-05-04 06:16pm

This means that Iron maiden are going to have to redo one of there best songs.

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2005-05-04 06:45pm

2000AD wrote:This means that Iron maiden are going to have to redo one of there best songs.

NOOOOOOO! You beat me too it!

Anyways, Grand Rapids, Michigan is the area code of the beast. Guess that means that the other valley-in-israel-that's-hell hell has frozen over.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2005-05-04 07:50pm

My birthday is 6/16.

Come burn me at the stake.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-05-04 07:52pm

Goddamnit this is gonna be a paperwork nightmare. Satan will not be happy.

Quadlok · Post by **Quadlok** » 2005-05-04 08:02pm

I wonder if I'm going to start noticing 616 a popping up whole lot, the way I do with 666.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2005-05-04 08:12pm

Damn...this recession knows no bounds.

Avalon616 · Post by **Avalon616** » 2005-05-04 08:37pm

Yay, Grand Moff Yenchin and I share a b-day!

I hope I get something really good this year, seeing as I'm officially devilspawn.

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2005-05-04 10:43pm

Chardok wrote:Damn...this recession knows no bounds.

LOL.....You KNOW things are tough when the Devil has to start making budget cuts.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2005-05-04 10:57pm

The research group has a page with the image here. There is also a brief discussion on why the difference matters.

Avalon616 wrote:I hope I get something really good this year, seeing as I'm officially devilspawn.

Well since now the truth is revealed, probably we'll get some suits.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-05-04 10:59pm

irishmick79 wrote:
Chardok wrote:Damn...this recession knows no bounds.
LOL.....You KNOW things are tough when the Devil has to start making budget cuts.

"...Yeah, I got laid off by Satan, and now I work as a corporate CEO."

You knew someone was going to make the joke.

Post by **Kuja** » 2005-05-04 11:24pm

Avalon616 wrote:Yay, Grand Moff Yenchin and I share a b-day!

Well, at least now we know where Antichrist is coming from.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-05-04 11:50pm

Castor Troy wrote:Interesting. I always thought that it was to represent Nero and give the Christians under the Roman persecution hope, but I didn't consider that the Bible is always a maze of riddles and hidden messages.

They might have changed it to be such.

Trinity · Post by **Trinity** » 2005-05-05 03:16am

I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist this one. That 666 stuff is pretty funny. Just one more way to show how stupid strict interpretation of the Bible is. I don't mean to slam Christianity or anything, but I tried reading the Bible and couldn't get past Genesis. When I read that on the 7th day God rested I dropped the damn thing I was laughing so hard! What kind of deity needs to take a nap after a hard days work building planets?? Just seemed pointless to go any further. Good thing there isn't a hell or they'd be making up my room as I type this. ( "Right this way Ms.Trinity, you're in room 666. That's on the 13th floor by the brimstone machine...." )