Buddhism=essentially atheist?

[Shinova]

I like Buddhism. It's quite a laid back religion. I appreciate any group whose central tenet is "chill out".

Interestingly, I have heard of Buddhist fundies starting riots somewhere in the world. Plus the infamous self-immolation story from the Vietnam war. Just goes to show, there are fanatics everywhere.

The act itself was pretty incredible though. Set yourself on fire and not utter a single sound or make a single movement until the moment you are dead and you are more ash than flesh.

[Mobiboros]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bhuddism based around self denial of everything that gives you pleasure? I remember something about having to desire nothing before being able to reach Nirvana or something. Doesn't sound very cool to me.

Kinda depends on your take on the 8 fold path and the 4 noble truths. For some they go deply into ascetism and self-denial. For others they view it not as 'self denial' but 'self-control'. I favour the latter myself in my practice. You don't deny yourself a pleasure, but you also dont make that pleasure or the persuit of it the end all be all of life.

The goal is to alleviate suffering. To a Buddhist you do this by following the 4 noble truths and the 8-fold path.

Strictly speaking Buddhism isn't Atheist insofar as gods aren't really addressed. There's no denial of gods, but there's no promotion of it. It's simply not really a factor. Many people even "add" buddhism into other religions (commonly Hindu). So there are theistic Buddhists and atheistic and agnostic buddhists. Depends on your take on it.

[Lord Pounder]

I like Buddhism. It's quite a laid back religion. I appreciate any group whose central tenet is "chill out".

Interestingly, I have heard of Buddhist fundies starting riots somewhere in the world. Plus the infamous self-immolation story from the Vietnam war. Just goes to show, there are fanatics everywhere.

How the fuck can you get a milliant group in a religion/philosphy that above all teaches pacifism? Where they American?

[Mobiboros]

How the fuck can you get a milliant group in a religion/philosphy that above all teaches pacifism? Where they American?

How do you get Christian Fundies persecuting people in a religion that preaches turning the other cheek?

How do you have Islamic Fundies setting off car bombs in a religion that explicitly says that all vengeance belongs only in Allah?

How do you get Wiccan fundies telling you about the evils of christianity and berating them for their beliefs in a religion who's central tenet is "An it harm none, do as thou will"?

You get hardcore fundies in any religion who take the core of the religion, then agressively promote the religion to the point of believing that their view o the religion is the only way.

Buddhism is easy as easy to pervert as anything else. It's easy to extrapolate the noble truths "There is suffering in the world", "Suffering is caused by desire" (both are paraphrased) into "If you eliminate the cause of the suffering the suffering ends." So you wind up with people with the devotion of monks with the idea that if they cause the downfall of those who cause suffering they are doing 'right'. Never seeing that they case suffering because what they do is 'for the greater good'.

[wolveraptor]

I never like Buddhism for its unwillingness to let you live life a little. Yes, you shouldn't be obssessed with any one thing, but don't reserve yourself. That only causes psychological shit to accumulate.

[General Zod]

I never like Buddhism for its unwillingness to let you live life a little. Yes, you shouldn't be obssessed with any one thing, but don't reserve yourself. That only causes psychological shit to accumulate.

buddhism itself acknowledges that living its path isn't for everyone, and it suggests that if you know you won't be able to follow it, then don't, or try to live it as best as you can, but it realizes that not everyone can emulate the buddha. it's doesn't expect all of its members to be perfect, and acknowledges that they can't be. unlike hardcore christianity, which expects everyone that follows it to uphold impossible standards.

[Sean Howard]

That's the good thing about it, most other fundies blow shit up (Or at least advocate it). Buddhist fundies take it out on themselves.

I think it was Dennis Leary that said "those Buddhists know how to put on a fucking PROTEST"

There are many sects of buddhism, some are essentially atheist or pantheist. Others actually have a complex heirarchy of gods/heavens/hells/etc. Because the core of Buddhism doesn't necessarily require any specific gods, it can be adapted and incorporated easily into indigenous belief systems.

Whats weird about that though, is that the central story of the Buddha involves him being tempted by Maya, who is a Hindu god. I think the later forms of Buddhism that do not involve gods gloss over things like this and say Maya was more like the Universe itself, or Guatama's own flawed inner nature.

Any of those reincarnation religions just make me ask why would I want to stop being reincarnated? If I can have infinite lives on Earth, that's cool with me. Nirvana is the extinction of the self, which doesn't sound to fun to me.

[Jawawithagun]

Any of those reincarnation religions just make me ask why would I want to stop being reincarnated? If I can have infinite lives on Earth, that's cool with me. Nirvana is the extinction of the self, which doesn't sound to fun to me.

Because you may have outlived your interest in living on this Earth.

[Drooling Iguana]

Any of those reincarnation religions just make me ask why would I want to stop being reincarnated? If I can have infinite lives on Earth, that's cool with me. Nirvana is the extinction of the self, which doesn't sound to fun to me.

Because you may have outlived your interest in living on this Earth.

But your memory gets blanked every time, so that's not an issue.

[Sean Howard]

Any of those reincarnation religions just make me ask why would I want to stop being reincarnated? If I can have infinite lives on Earth, that's cool with me. Nirvana is the extinction of the self, which doesn't sound to fun to me.

Because you may have outlived your interest in living on this Earth.

I guess the theory is that on the whole, your lives will suck. For every life where you are a millionare rock star, you will have 100 lives that are starving Chinese peasants.

Still, I don't care. I'd rather deal with that than not exist.

[Jalinth]

How the fuck can you get a milliant group in a religion/philosphy that above all teaches pacifism? Where they American?

You need to read some Japanese history. Militant monks were a serious power base/threat/problem - and these monks definitely included Buddhists.

Anything can be perverted - whether by the purely powerhungry or those who truly believe their path is the righteous one. And of course, everyone must follow the "one true path" - willingly or no.

[wolveraptor]

Any of those reincarnation religions just make me ask why would I want to stop being reincarnated? If I can have infinite lives on Earth, that's cool with me. Nirvana is the extinction of the self, which doesn't sound to fun to me.

Because you may have outlived your interest in living on this Earth.

I can't imagine that being a problem. Wouldn't a man from ancient Greek times find today fascinating? The longer you live, the more of humanity's story you would get to see. It'd be disappointing, though, to see it all be consumed by nuclear radiation. Climactic, but disappointing

[Darth Wong]

Personally, I would like to see a source for this story about violent rioting Buddhists. It certainly doesn't sound familiar to me.

[Zero]

The whole idea is that life is pain, and pain is bad. The whole buddhist philosophy doesn't include the idea that your own life is precious, simply because you're living it. The idea is that pain is bad, and all things will bring pain eventually. Personally, I see life as being worth the pain it brings you. Pain aint bad.. just another way to know that what's going on might not be good for you.

[Stofsk]

Personally, I would like to see a source for this story about violent rioting Buddhists. It certainly doesn't sound familiar to me.

It was a brief blurb on the evening news a long time ago. I mean, so long ago I can't even remember when exactly. I also don't know the context, because the report was so brief. I do remember that it was about buddhists, because I distinctly recall exclaiming at the TV screen "WTF? You're Buddhists! You don't fight!"

But with no follow-up I just assumed it wasn't that important, or they weren't 'real' Buddhists, or it was an event that was exaggerated. I don't think I'm mistaken, and it may have been a bad story which the network just dropped anyway.

How the fuck can you get a milliant group in a religion/philosphy that above all teaches pacifism? Where they American?

No. Something about my memory gives me the impression it was from some 3rd world country.

Look I'm sorry I brought it up. I don't have a source and I was making a more or less idle comment. I was just pointing out that there are fanatics in every religion, and in Buddhism there is the famous tale of the guy who set himself on fire.

Incidentally I googled 'Buddhist rioting' and this was top of the page. It's all I could find. I don't know how good a source that is. But it seems familiar, and it did take place a few years ago, which would be about right for it not to be familiar to anyone else. Like I said, I dimly recall a news report but that it was so long ago I can't remember it all that well. And Burma sounds about right for the country, because I remember it being a place I wouldn't want to go to.

[Mobiboros]

The whole idea is that life is pain, and pain is bad. The whole buddhist philosophy doesn't include the idea that your own life is precious, simply because you're living it. The idea is that pain is bad, and all things will bring pain eventually. Personally, I see life as being worth the pain it brings you. Pain aint bad.. just another way to know that what's going on might not be good for you.

It's not really about "pain". At least not in the "I burned my hand it hurts" kind. It's about suffering and the alleviation of that suffering. The basic premise is that if you live a 'right' life, then you'll lessen suffering for all. The goal is a world without suffering from wanting. It's not necessarily a 'realistic' goal, but it's a high set ideal that people should try their best to work towards.

[HemlockGrey]

Buddhist temples in Japan fielded large, powerful armies of warrior-monks, although they never really fought "holy wars" like the Catholic Church.

[General Zod]

The whole idea is that life is pain, and pain is bad. The whole buddhist philosophy doesn't include the idea that your own life is precious, simply because you're living it. The idea is that pain is bad, and all things will bring pain eventually. Personally, I see life as being worth the pain it brings you. Pain aint bad.. just another way to know that what's going on might not be good for you.

It's not really about "pain". At least not in the "I burned my hand it hurts" kind. It's about suffering and the alleviation of that suffering. The basic premise is that if you live a 'right' life, then you'll lessen suffering for all. The goal is a world without suffering from wanting. It's not necessarily a 'realistic' goal, but it's a high set ideal that people should try their best to work towards.

i think this page covers the basics more accurately than most of us here can.

[Losonti Tokash]

But with no follow-up I just assumed it wasn't that important, or they weren't 'real' Buddhists, or it was an event that was exaggerated. I don't think I'm mistaken, and it may have been a bad story which the network just dropped anyway.

It may have been in Sri Lanka. There's apparently some war between the Hindus and Buddhists over there but I don't know the particulars.

[kheegster]

AFAIK, the main Buddhist countries with unrest are Sri Lanka, Burma and Tibet. In Sri Lanka, I think there are some Buddhist factions which are resolutely against giving any leeway to the Hindu Tamils. As for Tibet, the very fact that they basically sat back and let the Chinese steamroll into their country without much violent resistance is an indication of their pacifist philosophy.