virtues

[Enforcer Talen]

what, in your mind, is the most valuable virtue?

when I was young and impressionable, I saw people, including my father, that responded overmuch to their environment; lot of rage, lot of hostility, that didnt produce or solve anything. so one of my most valued things is self control. I try to never let my emotions control my thinking.

by extension, which has been polished by my time at sdnet, clear thinking is also incredibly valuable. being able to focus and sort fact from fallacy is key.

[General Zod]

self control, easily. pretty much everything else follows after if you work at it, you just need to control impulse decisions.

[The Spartan]

What you mentioned are excellent virtues to have.

The 7 so called Heavenly Virtues are a good set of attributes to have IMHO:

Truth - Truth is a comprehensive term that in all of its nuances implies honesty, accuracy, sincerity, integrity, and reality.
Love - A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection, devotion, and/or compassion toward a person.
Courage - The state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or change with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery.
Wisdom - Knowledge, and the capacity to use the best means for attaining the best ends; good judgment.
Creativity - The ability to produce through artistic or imaginative effort, characterized by originality and expressiveness.
Tolerance - The practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.
Freedom - The power to act, speak, or think without externally imposed restraints.

[sparrowtm]

I am with Darth_Zod, because:

Truth - Truth is a comprehensive term that in all of its nuances implies honesty, accuracy, sincerity, integrity, and reality.

Your truth is a lie to the next person. Too interpretable to be a virtue.

Love - A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection, devotion, and/or compassion toward a person.

A state of mind or for some people - a chemical reaction - is hardly a virtue. It is nothing you must work for hard to maintain, but a physical condition.

Wisdom - Knowledge, and the capacity to use the best means for attaining the best ends; good judgment.

Again, a condition - nothing you actively do to be a better person.

Creativity - The ability to produce through artistic or imaginative effort, characterized by originality and expressiveness.

Talent is a heavenly virtue?

Freedom - The power to act, speak, or think without externally imposed restraints.

In most societies, freedom is given and taken from you by external influence. Also, too interpretable and passive concept to be a virtue.


I didn't quote the other two things you mentioned because it would boil down to the answers I gave above. Self control, on the other hand - leads to everything you could desire in terms of being a good person - however you may define that. And after all, "being a good person" is the goal behind the concept of virtues.

[General Zod]

I didn't quote the other two things you mentioned because it would boil down to the answers I gave above. Self control, on the other hand - leads to everything you could desire in terms of being a good person - however you may define that. And after all, "being a good person" is the goal behind the concept of virtues.

of course what you consider a "good person" is somewhat subjective, and will naturally determine what you try and develop after getting enough self control to work on them. since no two people will really agree on what's considered a good person 100%.

[sparrowtm]

I may have been stating the obvious, so I'll cut it short: my problem with Spartans virtues are simply that they are passive. A virtue by definition has to be something you actively do to strive towards said subjective goal of being a good person.

[Morilore]

The ability to prevent your wishes from being the father of your thoughts.

[speaker-to-trolls]

The ability to see things as they are, rather than how you would like them to be, think they are or think they should be.

[Darth Wong]

what, in your mind, is the most valuable virtue?

I'd say the two most important virtues are intelligence and sympathy.

People who lack either of those characteristics will generally make trouble for society. Many other positive virtues such as generosity are actually just outgrowths of sympathy, and people who are incapable of sympathizing with others are sociopaths.

[That NOS Guy]

Many other positive virtues such as generosity are actually just outgrowths of sympathy, and people who are incapable of sympathizing with others are sociopaths.

Apathy is the root of all evil eh?

I guess the most important virtue for me would be the desire for truth no matter how frightening.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

I would think two good virtues include beneficence and wisdom.

[Knife]

Loyalty. Not blind loyalty, though. People are social creatures, to keep the best interests of the 'pack' first and foremost is a good survival trait.

[Surlethe]

what, in your mind, is the most valuable virtue?

The desire for knowledge, and self control. Desire for knowledge will lead to learning, which will lead to wisdom. Self control's virtue has, I think, already been rehashed. But the desire for knowledge is, I think, more important.

People are social creatures, to keep the best interests of the 'pack' first and foremost is a good survival trait.

You think the point of being virtuous, then, is to survive?

[Knife]

You think the point of being virtuous, then, is to survive?

Keeping the group together for your benifit and theirs is. Keeping them alive and prosperous only benifts you as well.

[Avalon616]

what, in your mind, is the most valuable virtue?

I'd say the two most important virtues are intelligence and sympathy.

People who lack either of those characteristics will generally make trouble for society. Many other positive virtues such as generosity are actually just outgrowths of sympathy, and people who are incapable of sympathizing with others are sociopaths.

I definitely agree with the sympathy, be it that, or empathy, or compassion. Intelligence is high on my list too, but then I think in D&D terms, and I think Wisdom might be more important. I'm a student, and I hope to be a college professor: I have been called book-smart more times than I can count. And I've met a huge amount of other intelligent people, like myself, who are book-smart. Many of these people I think are assholes, and not virtuous- they have the intelligence, but don't have insight or good judgement.

I don't think intelligence is a virtue unless someone has the wisdom to back it up- having good judgement and insight is key.

Then again, maybe intelligence + empathy = wisdom.

[Zero]

Don't know if these would qualify as virtues, but I definately believe insight and sympathy go well together. But how do you even define what a virtue is, or what makes something a virtue? I also do believe love is important, and it's only a condtion/state of mind in that anything that we feel/think is only a state of mind. How do you define what a virtue is?

[Surlethe]

You think the point of being virtuous, then, is to survive?

Keeping the group together for your benifit and theirs is. Keeping them alive and prosperous only benifts you as well.

But is it virtuous just because it benefits you?

[Knife]

You think the point of being virtuous, then, is to survive?

Keeping the group together for your benifit and theirs is. Keeping them alive and prosperous only benifts you as well.

But is it virtuous just because it benefits you?

It benifts most people.

[Surlethe]

It benifts most people.

So no, then?

[Knife]

It benifts most people.

So no, then?

What do you want? A virtue is something either morally correct or provides some sort of advantage to a person(s)?

How the fuck can loyalty to one's group not be a virtue? In most moral systems, being true to your friends is usually considered a virtue and as I've already pointed out, a nice tight pack usually does well.

Can loyalty be bad? Yes, as I pointed out in my OP. No blind loyalty. So what do you want?

[Surlethe]

What do you want? A virtue is something either morally correct or provides some sort of advantage to a person(s)?

How the fuck can loyalty to one's group not be a virtue? In most moral systems, being true to your friends is usually considered a virtue and as I've already pointed out, a nice tight pack usually does well.

Can loyalty be bad? Yes, as I pointed out in my OP. No blind loyalty. So what do you want?

I was just an asshole. I apologize for it. Sorry!

You've clarified your point. Thank you.

[Knife]

okey doke