The Clone Wars - Not what you thought?

[Uraniun235]

I had envisioned the Clone Wars as basically being multiple powers in the galaxy fielding huge clone armies, and in the process of fighting and winning the Wars, the Old Republic slowly became the Empire.

I don't mind that Lucas has gone in a different direction. I do mind such issues as the whole Anakin/Owen issue that was brought up earlier, but not to a significant degree; I'm too busy being outraged at other wastes of potential in science fiction.

[VT-16]

You're telling me that in the tens, even hundreds of thousands of years of galactic civilization, this was the first time anyone thought, 'hey, why don't we use clones as troops?'

The clue here is 'major conflict', galactic scale warfare. Everything before has been large-scale wars with natural armies or droids. Clone armies were usually just used for limited conflicts that didn´t span the galaxy. Even the Kaminoans said they made armies before, they just weren´t large-scale.

And I have to say, if I see that dumbass cop-out excuse of "Lucas doesn´t have anyone to challenge him anymore!!!!!!1111", I swear I´m gonna go ballistic. The problem is he has people that challenge his decisions (yes, even Rick), he just usually overrides them if he really wants something. I´m sure even if "His Holiness", Gary Kurtz was involved today, Lucas would have enough power to go through with more of his ideas. He only listened more to people when he had a lot to lose, i.e during the first two SW films. After that, he could afford to do more of what he thought were good ideas and get it wrong.

[Kurgan]

Spanky:

Why would I have to do that when I have you to answer my questions?

Exactly.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Because then I wouldn't have to deal with your counter-productive approaches to discussion.

[Kurgan]

Ah, but then we wouldn't have anything to talk about.

[Kartr_Kana]

spanky
Revisions are a very good thing, but writing a bad soap opera is not a good thing. He had the storys and he revised forward so to speak to get the OT, why not take the same begining and revise backwards to get the PT?

Kane Starkiller (change to Kane Skywalker) and his sons are attacked by Knights of the Sith only Anakin survives and then only because he is already a great pilot when we meet him. He helps Obi-Wan protect Alderaan from bad clones and saves one of the Alderaanian princesses falls in love marrys Palpentine says hey you want to bring those Sith Knights to justice and help me make the galaxy safe for your wife and the child she carries? Anakin chooses to help Palpentine and kills the Sith knights in revenge and that sends him to the dark side. Have that happen on a planet with a huge dark side aura which corrupts him and sends him to the dark side. Palpentine reveals that he is the dark lord and tells the new Darth Vader that the sith kinghts that killed his father were actually Jedi or were fallen Jedi and that the rest of the Jedi were potential threats that had to be "dealt with".

Of course this needs revision, but hey I think it beats.

little slave boy wins big rocket soapbox derby, blows up battleship, becomes Jedi, marries which is a jedi no-no. He is afraid that his wife is going to die so he decides to kill all his old friends and become the right hand man for an evil dictator.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

spanky
Revisions are a very good thing, but writing a bad soap opera is not a good thing. He had the storys and he revised forward so to speak to get the OT, why not take the same begining and revise backwards to get the PT?

He "revised" all that stuff because it was a story treatment/screenplay drafting process. Is that another basic concept that you have trouble understanding?

I just don't want to fucking deal with you anymore, that's all. You're just another wounded and betrayed jaded fuck who wants Lucas to make YOUR movies rather than HIS movies.

[Kartr_Kana]

I know that was why he rivised that stuff, but unrevised it was a more interesting story the the PT has been.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I know that was why he rivised that stuff, but unrevised it was a more interesting story the the PT has been.

Tough shit. It would also be contradictory. Half of that stuff wasn't even purely PT stuff, it was part of an amalgamation of both eras together.

[Kartr_Kana]

Which is why GL revised forward in time, why not revise backwards in time?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Because it doesn't fucking work like that. Writing doesn't work like that.

It's all invalid, anyway. Worthless.

Too bad for you. Go cry back in your fortress of denial.

[Kartr_Kana]

I am not denying TPM, AOTC and the PT novels. Just saying that I do not like them. Why does it not work that way? Take some of those ideas and work them till they make sense.

[Lord Revan]

what should remember is that any prequel trilogy would a story the fall of Anakin Skywalker (and the Old Republic)

Things we know from OT are that Anakin was Anakin until about 20 years pre-ANH and Jedi fought in the Clone Wars (including Anakin and Obi-wan)
Palpatine is/was a dark side Force user (I can't was ever said in OT that Palpy was Sith lord) and a senator of the Old Republic (and later the "president" of the Republic (before he decleared himself the Emperor)


if the happend 40-30 before ANH why would they be in a PT (except perhaps in first Episode might have the end of the Clone Wars)

TPM is mainly backstory for Anakin
AOTC and ROTS have the clone wars, the beginning and the end (of both the war and the Republic)
in opinion by the Clone Wars to about 20 years pre-ANH GL was able explain why by Anakin fall (to the Dark Side)

[VT-16]

Kane Starkiller (change to Kane Skywalker) and his sons are attacked by Knights of the Sith only Anakin survives and then only because he is already a great pilot when we meet him.

Last time I checked, pilot didn´t exclusivly mean "person who flies a spaceship". Since the podracers fly, that does make him a pilot. And since he´s got the Force, he can pilot far better than other humanoids. The loss of a parent is also dealt with in the prequels, only slightly less dramatic, so I´ll give you that one.

He helps Obi-Wan protect Alderaan from bad clones and saves one of the Alderaanian princesses falls in love marrys

This makes Leia´s emergence even more suspicious, since he would have spent some time in the Alderaanian court and thus noticed if Bail´s wife was pregnant or not. Them getting a daughter conveniently after Anakin´s pregnant wife´s dies, would only stretch credibility further than it already is.

Palpentine says hey you want to bring those Sith Knights to justice and help me make the galaxy safe for your wife and the child she carries? Anakin chooses to help Palpentine and kills the Sith knights in revenge and that sends him to the dark side.

This is essentially what happens in the movies, except substitute Sith Knights with Dooku and the Jedi Order.

Have that happen on a planet with a huge dark side aura which corrupts him and sends him to the dark side.

I´m sorry, but this is a major cop-out. The point in the movies is Anakin is ultimately responsible for his own actions, letting the Dark Side corrupt him or take him over like that only makes it seem as if he´s "innocent" of everything that happens while he´s a Sith. I´m sorry, but this is a bad idea, imho.

Palpentine reveals that he is the dark lord and tells the new Darth Vader that the sith kinghts that killed his father were actually Jedi or were fallen Jedi and that the rest of the Jedi were potential threats that had to be "dealt with".

I like the selling point for Jedi genocide better in ROTS.

Well, that was certainly interesting. Anyone else feel like improving the story?

[Kartr_Kana]

VT-16 that is what revisions are for, but I admit most of my ideas were crap. GL still could have done a better job.

IMO podracing is not really flying. Do hovercraft fly? it is more like driving then flying.

[VT-16]

GL still could have done a better job

Aside from starting the CW earlier and possibly making Anakin older in TPM, I don´t really see room for any improvements. =\

And I still hold the opinion that things that float, spin and leap in the air, are aircraft. Oh well.

[Lord Revan]

Techinically even Walker "drivers" could considered Pilot and how many 9 year old you know pilot a fighter so good that they could even survive in combat.

[Kartr_Kana]

The are called walker pilots.

And I still hold the opinion that things that float, spin and leap in the air, are aircraft. Oh well.

It floats a few meters above the ground the only time it is actually flying is when Sebulba forces Ani off the jump and then it falls like a rock.

Dictionary.com

1. To engage in flight, especially:
1. To move through the air by means of wings or winglike parts.
2. To travel by air: We flew to Dallas.
3. To operate an aircraft or spacecraft.
2.
1. To rise in or be carried through the air by the wind: a kite flying above the playground.
2. To float or flap in the air: pennants flying from the masthead.
3. To move or be sent through the air with great speed: bullets flying in every direction; a plate that flew from my hands when I stumbled.
4.
1. To move with great speed; rush or dart: The children flew down the hall. Rumors were flying during their absence.

8. To undergo an explosive reaction; burst: The dropped plate flew into pieces. The motorist flew into a rage.



v. tr.

1.
1. To cause to fly or float in the air: fly a kite; fly a flag.
2. Nautical. To operate under (a particular flag): a tanker that flies the Liberian flag.
2.
1. To pilot (an aircraft or a spacecraft).
2. To carry or transport in an aircraft or a spacecraft: fly emergency supplies to a stricken area.
3. To pass over or through in flight: flew the coastal route in record time.
4. To perform in a spacecraft or an aircraft: flew six missions into space.

I saw alot of 4.8. To undergo an explosive reaction; burst. And alot of 4.1. To move with great speed; rush or dart: The children flew down the hall. Rumors were flying during their absence. But not any 1. To engage in flight, especially:
1. To move through the air by means of wings or winglike parts.
2. To travel by air: We flew to Dallas.
3. To operate an aircraft or spacecraft.

[Kurgan]

Obi-Wan says "he was the greatest Starpilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior".

Of course his other statement "he was already a great pilot."


Translation:

When I met him, the little kid was already a great pod racing pilot, and he had incredible luck when he accidentally got into a starfighter. Later he almost killed us both driving an air taxi on Coruscant!

"So what I told you was true, from a Certain Point of View(tm)..."

[Trytostaydead]

Like people have already said, from the Zahn books and such, I always imagined the Clones as being somewhat unstable, mad and extremely vicious. I always imagined the Old Republic times as while being a place of great fortune and decadence, at the same time dangerous and decaying. With mad clones rampaging through the galaxy, epidemics like the Hive virus wiping out populations left and right, grand fleets being put into action.. and disappearing, great battles against fallen Jedis, and the rise of Palpatine and the New Order.

[Kurgan]

That's a good point. I pictured the Republic having a military. It never occured to me that it was this big pacifistic organization to which things like "armies" were anathema. Sure, they had PEACE and decadence and stuff, but I figured the threat of pirates, all those whacky aliens in the outer rim and the "Unknown Regions" were a constant threat. I had no idea how many Jedi there were ("thousands") but I didn't picture them being the ONLY guardians of peace and justice in the old republic. I didn't picture them just ferrying around 10,000 of them as diplomats armed just with their hermit robes, lightsaber and wits, certainly... and that was all that was keeping the Old Republic from falling apart. The "New Order" had more to do with purging the elements of democracy out of the Republic (and killing the Jedi and other people they didn't like) and building super weapons of mass terror like the Super Star Destroyers and Death Stars and putting Stormtroopers everywhere to scare people into submission.

The idea was that all these elder pilots (not just the Academy hotshots who defected like Biggs) were part of the Old Republic military, so naturally I just assumed it had one. Not that they were all Clones or Jedi.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Obi-Wan says "he was the greatest Starpilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior".

Of course his other statement "he was already a great pilot."


Translation:

When I met him, the little kid was already a great pod racing pilot, and he had incredible luck when he accidentally got into a starfighter. Later he almost killed us both driving an air taxi on Coruscant!

"So what I told you was true, from a Certain Point of View(tm)..."

Um, The Clone Wars series and RotS, moron? Hello?

Typical selectiveness from you...

[Kurgan]

Obi-Wan says "he was the greatest Starpilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior".

Of course his other statement "he was already a great pilot."


Translation:

When I met him, the little kid was already a great pod racing pilot, and he had incredible luck when he accidentally got into a starfighter. Later he almost killed us both driving an air taxi on Coruscant!

"So what I told you was true, from a Certain Point of View(tm)..."

Um, The Clone Wars series and RotS, moron? Hello?

Typical selectiveness from you...

You missed the entire point of any of my posts, so I won't even try to respond. Typical leap at the chance to snipe and call me a purist from the sidelines.

[McC]

Hopefully moving away from the Spanky/Kurgan bitchfest...

My disappointment with the Clone Wars is less with the wars themselves and more with the aftermath. Stormtroopers are all clones, rather than enlistees? That sucks. That sucks a lot. It also kills a lot of story potential. Republic Commando (book) was great, but I think it'd be a lot cooler if after the first batch of clones, enlistees began driving towards the ranks of the troopers en masse. A more diverse character background to pull from is always better from a story-telling perspective, IMO.

[Lord Pounder]

One thing that stuck in my mind was a particular line from Mara Jade in The Last Command

I'm not gonna sit back and watch while a bunch of cold faced clones try and take over the Galaxy

From that I assumed that all the standing armies in the OR used clone warriors to fight battles and one group of clones rebelled against fighting for their masters and tried to take the place for themselves, maybe causing all the Clones to rebel. Palpatine then used the political turmoil to take over, blaming the OR for getting lazy while his New Order promised never to let that happen again.