SW vs ST combat ranges.

[Scrubula]

The evidence is there canonically being a plan to let them escape and lead the DS to the Rebel base, which is kinda hard if they get flatlined on the way to the landing bay.

Of course, instead of actually giving any such evidence, you merely claim it exists. I've already offered one alternative (Vader knows they will escape with precognition). Oh, gee, look at that, a way that fits perfectly with your so called 'canon evidence' but doesn't require such an ignorant plan. BTW, do you have any evidence besides the one quote between Vader and Tarkin? I've already outweighed that with multiple other bits of evidence. Got anything besides your say so?

I'll provide evidence when you do. Evidence for 'shoot to kill' orders when the plan was to let them get away, please?

Reading comprehension is your friend, welcome it into your life.
I never said they had explicit 'shoot to kill' orders. I'm merely refuting the ridiculous idea that they had 'shoot to miss' orders. I've provided evidence, and you've replied with naysaying and...well, just naysaying actually.

I have. So what? Yes, a few of them died in the process. It's called discipline. Soldiers are payed to risk death, you know.

There's a HUGE difference between risking your life and standing in plain sight, purposely not hitting, and getting slaughtered. I can tell you have absolutely no knowledge of military tactics/discipline.

Which is backed up by nothing whatsoever. As opposed to them missing on purpose being completely in line with Vader's plan. Too bad, so sad...

The stormtroopers clearly had no such 'miss on purpose' orders, as evidenced by that scene. How many other scened of stormtrooper not recieving such orders do you need for that scene to be 'backed up'?
I guess we can just as easily dismiss Vaders quote since it is also not 'backed up'. Brilliant logic on your part sir, stunningly so.

You don't like logic all that much, do you? I show your point has no basis while the 'miss on purpose' one has and I'm strengthening YOUR position?

It's customary in debates to actually provide evidence to either prove one thing or disprove another. So far you have offered nothing but naysaying and 'Because I say so!' While this may make you feel better, it does not in any way amount to evidence or even a logical arguement of any kind. Show some evidence please. And yes, actually, your attempted arguements/naysaying/trolling did strengthen my arguement, sorry if that burns, but that's no reason to act so childish.

Why would I have to? We know the order was given. Unless YOU can prove 100% that the ruse was NOT inacted at any given time the troopers were missing on purpose.

Well, if you knowthe order was given, then you should have no trouble at all showing the evidence that you draw this certainty from. As to why you would have to? Well, see above where I explain about the whole concept of debating. I've already offered a alternative scenario that fits with visuals and dialouge of the movie.(much better than this delusional 'miss on purpose' theory too I might add)

Are you really this stupid? The Rebels were supposed to escape. Since they can't escape if they're shot dead by the Stormtroopers, said troopers naturally had orders not to kill them.

Of course, no evidence, just your ranting claims and naysaying. Getting kinda predictable here bud. Man, you must be really rattled to be throwing out the insults so cravenly.

Let me say it again, in case you missed it. Vader saw with his force precog that the rebels would escape, hence the homing beacon. Ta-daa. An alternate scenario that fits nicely with the quotes from Vader. Effectivly making your contention that Vaders quote proves the 'trying to miss' theory completly worthless.

Proof that the order had NOT been given, please. Not that you seem to know much about how accurate infantry fire is in the first place.

Considering that Leia and Luke were on the platform being fired on from above and behind after this occured, when those Stormtroopers (both sets) could have just as easily and with no risk to themselves not stepped out to be killed and not been trying to force the door open, I'd say that's all the proof a logical mind needs. Unless you are contending that the Stormtroopers knew that Luke and Leia were going to use a swingline in heroic fashion to escape them, how can you possible think those stormtrooper were allowing them to escape? Can't wait to hear the expalnation of this one

As far as infantry accuracy goes...if I am wrong in thinking that 20 guys could hit one guy running away from them straight down a hall when he started just a few meters from them, then I apologize.

I notice how you snipped the part that actually contained the evidence.

Oh, I'm sorry, this was supposed to be evidence of some kind?

Camera's aren't disrupted by easily-seen-rhrough-nebulae, you know. The viewscreen regularly is.

See, I was under the impression that evidence was supposed to come from a source other than just your wild meaningless claims. Again, my apologies if this does indeed qualify as 'evidence' on these boards.

It surely couldnt be that interference from the 'nebula' or otherwise was causing the disruption.
By your logic, if my TV picture has static in it, it must not have been filmed with a camera at all, but is actually a representation of sensor readings that have been fouled. After all, frequency static is also 'easily-seen-through' so it couldn't possibly be a camera.

[Batman]

The evidence is there canonically being a plan to let them escape and lead the DS to the Rebel base, which is kinda hard if they get flatlined on the way to the landing bay.

Of course, instead of actually giving any such evidence, you merely claim it exists.

Just for the record, are you actually requiring evidence for Vader and Tarkin planning to let Leia & Co escape?

I've already offered one alternative (Vader knows they will escape with precognition).

Which appears to have a reliable range of less than a second. 'Always in motion is the future'. You were saying?

Oh, gee, look at that, a way that fits perfectly with your so called 'canon evidence' but doesn't require such an ignorant plan.

Except that it doesn't. There's NO SINGLE INCIDENT of Force Precog reliably predicting anything more than a second or so away. Palpy sure as hell didn't predict his own downfall. Vader didn't predict being shot down by Han in ANH. He didn't predict Luke jumping down that airshaft in TESB. Didn't predict Leia being broken out of her cell...

BTW, do you have any evidence besides the one quote between Vader and Tarkin?

I don't need any.

I've already outweighed that with multiple other bits of evidence.

Liar.

I'll provide evidence when you do. Evidence for 'shoot to kill' orders when the plan was to let them get away, please?

Reading comprehension is your friend, welcome it into your life.
I never said they had explicit 'shoot to kill' orders. I'm merely refuting the ridiculous idea that they had 'shoot to miss' orders.

Down to nitpicking, are we? Leia and Co were supposed to escape. Wether you shoot to wing, stun, or kill, if you HIT the plan is in shambles. Therefore you strive NOT to hit. Ergo, shoot to miss.

I've provided evidence,

Except that you didn't. What, pray tell, is your evidence for the Stormies not having been instructed to miss?

I have. So what? Yes, a few of them died in the process. It's called discipline. Soldiers are payed to risk death, you know.

There's a HUGE difference between risking your life and standing in plain sight, purposely not hitting, and getting slaughtered. I can tell you have absolutely no knowledge of military tactics/discipline.

If I weren't Batman I'd laugh.
The number of Stormies killed is negligible. A lot more soldiers got killed in the trenches of just about every WW1 battle. Strangely enough, the vast majority of WW1 soldiers did NOT refuse orders.
Especially when 'following orders' = MIGHT die, as opposed to 'NOT following orders'= WILL die. We're talking abot the Empire, you know.
I apparently know a lot more about discipline than you do.

Which is backed up by nothing whatsoever. As opposed to them missing on purpose being completely in line with Vader's plan. Too bad, so sad...

The stormtroopers clearly had no such 'miss on purpose' orders, as evidenced by that scene.

Really? I must have missed the billboard reading 'The Stormtroopers do not have 'shoot to miss orders' that apparently was present in that scene.

How many other scened of stormtrooper not recieving such orders do you need for that scene to be 'backed up'?

One that actually says they didn't, as opposed to you simply assuming so.

I guess we can just as easily dismiss Vaders quote since it is also not 'backed up'.

And that quote would be?

You don't like logic all that much, do you? I show your point has no basis while the 'miss on purpose' one has and I'm strengthening YOUR position?

It's customary in debates to actually provide evidence to either prove one thing or disprove another.

Just for the record-are you actually requiring evidence for Vader and Tarkin planning to let Leia & Co escape?

Why would I have to? We know the order was given. Unless YOU can prove 100% that the ruse was NOT inacted at any given time the troopers were missing on purpose.

Well, if you knowthe order was given, then you should have no trouble at all showing the evidence that you draw this certainty from.

The fact that if the Stormtroopers kill Leia & Co en route to the Falcon that plan cannot possibly work?
Seriously, how stupid are you?

As to why you would have to? Well, see above where I explain about the whole concept of debating. I've already offered a alternative scenario that fits with visuals and dialouge of the movie.

No you didn't.

(much better than this delusional 'miss on purpose' theory too I might add)

No it doesn't.

Are you really this stupid? The Rebels were supposed to escape. Since they can't escape if they're shot dead by the Stormtroopers, said troopers naturally had orders not to kill them.

Of course, no evidence, just your ranting claims and naysaying. Getting kinda predictable here bud. Man, you must be really rattled to be throwing out the insults so cravenly.

I see a continuing lack of evidence to the contrary on your part. AND a complete failure to grasp the concept of logic. IF it is so painfully obvious that the Stormies DIDN'T have 'shoot to miss' orders, PRESENT IT. MY point is completely in line with Vader/Tarkin wanting the heroes to escape. Yours ISN'T.

Let me say it again, in case you missed it. Vader saw with his force precog that the rebels would escape, hence the homing beacon.

The same Force Precog that showed Palpatine that he would be killed by Vader. Oh wait it didn't. Like it didn't show Vader Luke would blow up the DS, it didn't show Vader Han would shoot him down...

Ta-daa. An alternate scenario that fits nicely with the quotes from Vader.Effectivly making your contention that Vaders quote proves the 'trying to miss' theory completly worthless.

You wish.
Vader wanted them to escape.
They couldn't escape if they were killed.
Vader ordered the Stormies not to kill them.
It's that simple.

Proof that the order had NOT been given, please. Not that you seem to know much about how accurate infantry fire is in the first place.

Considering that Leia and Luke were on the platform being fired on from above and behind after this occured, when those Stormtroopers (both sets) could have just as easily and with no risk to themselves not stepped out to be killed and not been trying to force the door open, I'd say that's all the proof a logical mind needs.

And Luke and Leia would of course have happily accepted that nobody tried to stop them, because, hey, it's propably Stormtrooper lunch break.

Unless you are contending that the Stormtroopers knew that Luke and Leia were going to use a swingline in heroic fashion to escape them, how can you possible think those stormtrooper were allowing them to escape? Can't wait to hear the expalnation of this one

Seriously, how dense are you? Who cares what the Stormtroopers knew? They were ordered not to kill them! For all we know, they would have turned and run had Luke and Leia not made it across.

As far as infantry accuracy goes...if I am wrong in thinking that 20 guys could hit one guy running away from them straight down a hall when he started just a few meters from them, then I apologize.

Could, no. Inevitably will, yes. Especially when firing from the hip.

I notice how you snipped the part that actually contained the evidence.

Oh, I'm sorry, this was supposed to be evidence of some kind?

Camera's aren't disrupted by easily-seen-rhrough-nebulae, you know. The viewscreen regularly is.

See, I was under the impression that evidence was supposed to come from a source other than just your wild meaningless claims. Again, my apologies if this does indeed qualify as 'evidence' on these boards.

I rest my case.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Look, Scrubula decided to try and take a shot with his bullshit here. Welcome to SD.net Scrubula, Im pretty sure you wont have a pleasant (or too long) stay.

Just out of curiosity, and since I havent been following too much, are you honestly trying to claim Scrubula that Tarkin and Vader did not allow Leia and folks to escape? Because you know, that is made kinda clear in the movie, with the tracking device and all, Leia noting "They let us go, thats the only way our escape could have been that easy" or something along those lines. You can guess how much the Empire cares about losing a couple of dozen men by allowing the Rebels to escape if it would allow them to eradicate the leadership of the movement at a single stroke. But hey, I guess logic isnt your forte.

Guess I shouldnt be supprised, this is the newest batch of recruits to the horde of rabid Trekkies.

[Firefox]

I'm still waiting for a response to this:

As I said before, when ST ships purposely miss, many here would say "That's not that impressive."

Name some examples of when Trek ships purposely miss.

[Scrubula]

Except that you didn't. What, pray tell, is your evidence for the Stormies not having been instructed to miss?

You mean besides the stormtroopers talking amongst themselves and the stormtroopers that were firing on and trying to get through the door at them in the bridge/chasm room? Troopers who were clearly not 'herding' them anywhere nor allowing them to escape? Jesus, do you even read what you are replying to?

The number of Stormies killed is negligible. A lot more soldiers got killed in the trenches of just about every WW1 battle.

I bet not a one of them was ever ordered to 'stand in plain sight of the enemy, letting him shot you at his leisure. Fire at the enemy but make sure you miss. Are you seriously making this comparison? Are you that lacking in common sense?

Really? I must have missed the billboard reading 'The Stormtroopers do not have 'shoot to miss orders' that apparently was present in that scene.

Trooper1: What's happening?
Trooper2: I don't know, maybe it's another drill.

Does it seem to you they have said orders? Actually, to you, it probably does.

One that actually says they didn't, as opposed to you simply assuming so.

Read their dialouge, then try to figure out if they had orders or not. It's pretty damn clear they didn't.

And that quote would be?

The one I assume your referencing, although apparently you can't be bothered to actually provide it. God no, that might be like actually providing evidence for your case.

Just for the record-are you actually requiring evidence for Vader and Tarkin planning to let Leia & Co escape?

My god, are you seriously not clear on what I've repeated over and over again? I'm requiring evidence that stormtroopers were under 'shoot to miss' orders. Evidence that you are sorely lacking.

I see a continuing lack of evidence to the contrary on your part. AND a complete failure to grasp the concept of logic. IF it is so painfully obvious that the Stormies DIDN'T have 'shoot to miss' orders, PRESENT IT. MY point is completely in line with Vader/Tarkin wanting the heroes to escape. Yours ISN'T.

Ah, I get it, the famous warsie 'wall of ignorance. Either that, or your reading comprhension is on par with your average chimp. Read my above posts. Actually read them. Understand them, if you can.
BTW, have you post a single piece of evidence on this besides naysaying? Not that I've seen.

Vader wanted them to escape.
They couldn't escape if they were killed.
Vader ordered the Stormies not to kill them.

Ok, prove it. Don't just say it's true, actually offer some evidence, for once. BTW, 'don't kill them' and 'miss on purpose while exposing yourself to enemy fire' are not the same thing. The much more reasonable 'don't kill them', could have been accomplished with great ease.

And Luke and Leia would of course have happily accepted that nobody tried to stop them, because, hey, it's propably Stormtrooper lunch break.

Ok, so where exactly were the stormtroopers 'herding' them to in the dead end, broken bridge, chasm room? Please, I'm literally begging you, explain that one to me. (I could use the laugh) Or perhaps the troopers knew Luke had a zipline and was going to use it, and they just knew he wouldn't fall. Damn, these troopers have better precog than you credit Vader with, LOL.

Seriously, how dense are you? Who cares what the Stormtroopers knew? They were ordered not to kill them! For all we know, they would have turned and run had Luke and Leia not made it across.

So they were just standing on the platform above them firing at them, without trying to hit, hoping that by some miracle they would make it across? Whos the dense one here?

I rest my case.

So then, you agree that TV interference equals sensor and not cameras being used to film TV shows then? Interesting the lengths you will go to, sad, but interesting.

Are all 3200+ of your posts as equally vacant of logic, evidence and general substance?

[Scrubula]

Just out of curiosity, and since I havent been following too much, are you honestly trying to claim Scrubula that Tarkin and Vader did not allow Leia and folks to escape?

Try reading before you reply, it'll save alot of timewasted on these ignorant questions.

I'm claiming that stormtroopers were never given an order 'miss on purpose but make it look good'. It's patently ridiculous.

Allowing them to escape could just as easily refer to the light contigent of fighters that were sent to stop the MF. If you guys have proof of this 'miss on purpose but make it look good' theory to counter the multiple counters to it I have posted, then for gods sake, post it already. I have yet to see a single shred of evidence beyond 'Gosh, everyone knows that's how it was! I'm right because I say so.'

I've already give two plausible scenarios that both fit with the dialouge at least as well as 'stormtrooper were trying to miss', with supporting evidence from the stormtrooper themselves that they had no such orders. Do any warsies here actually use evidence, or just rely on the warsie majority to naysay people to death?

[Gunhead]

While this precog theory has some good points to it, I'd still make sure my troops just make a good show instead of actually capturing them or killing them.

I'd have to rewatch ANH, but it could be Vader came up with this "let them escape plan" after Luke and Han got the Leia out of her sell and jumped down the garbage shute. I'd say stormies were gunning to kill but Han + Luke covered behind the bulkheads, this added to smoke generated by stray blasts could hamper the stormies aim enough.

As to the Leia+Luke on the bridge, it was Luke who blasted the bridge controls.

-Gunhead

[Batman]

Except that you didn't. What, pray tell, is your evidence for the Stormies not having been instructed to miss?

You mean besides the stormtroopers talking amongst themselves and the stormtroopers that were firing on and trying to get through the door at them in the bridge/chasm room? Troopers who were clearly not 'herding' them anywhere nor allowing them to escape? Jesus, do you even read what you are replying to?

I find it interesting that you somehow don't post what those Stormtroopers were saying if it supports your case....

The number of Stormies killed is negligible. A lot more soldiers got killed in the trenches of just about every WW1 battle.

I bet not a one of them was ever ordered to 'stand in plain sight of the enemy, letting him shot you at his leisure. Fire at the enemy but make sure you miss. Are you seriously making this comparison? Are you that lacking in common sense?

You obviously have no clue about infantry warfare. Not that any of the Stormies on DS1 was asked this.

Really? I must have missed the billboard reading 'The Stormtroopers do not have 'shoot to miss orders' that apparently was present in that scene.

Trooper1: What's happening?
Trooper2: I don't know, maybe it's another drill.
Does it seem to you they have said orders? Actually, to you, it probably does.

Too bad that scene happened elsewhere. Lying fuck.

One that actually says they didn't, as opposed to you simply assuming so.

Read their dialouge, then try to figure out if they had orders or not. It's pretty damn clear they didn't.

Propably because they weren't involved, dumbass.

Just for the record-are you actually requiring evidence for Vader and Tarkin planning to let Leia & Co escape?

My god, are you seriously not clear on what I've repeated over and over again? I'm requiring evidence that stormtroopers were under 'shoot to miss' orders. Evidence that you are sorely lacking.

I don't need any, Bragabrains. They wanted Leia & Co to get to the Falcon therefore the troops obviously had orders to let them, you know, live to get there.

I see a continuing lack of evidence to the contrary on your part. AND a complete failure to grasp the concept of logic. IF it is so painfully obvious that the Stormies DIDN'T have 'shoot to miss' orders, PRESENT IT. MY point is completely in line with Vader/Tarkin wanting the heroes to escape. Yours ISN'T.

SNIPPY
IOW, you don't HAVE evidence to the contrary.

Vader wanted them to escape.
They couldn't escape if they were killed.
Vader ordered the Stormies not to kill them.

Ok, prove it. Don't just say it's true, actually offer some evidence, for once.

You want me to provide evidence that Vader didn-'T want Leia & Co killed, did I get that right?

BTW, 'don't kill them' and 'miss on purpose while exposing yourself to enemy fire' are not the same thing. The much more reasonable 'don't kill them', could have been accomplished with great ease.

Really. By all means DO explain.

And Luke and Leia would of course have happily accepted that nobody tried to stop them, because, hey, it's propably Stormtrooper lunch break.

Ok, so where exactly were the stormtroopers 'herding' them to in the dead end, broken bridge, chasm room?

Who cares? They had orders to NOT KILL them. Therefore they didn't.

Seriously, how dense are you? Who cares what the Stormtroopers knew? They were ordered not to kill them! For all we know, they would have turned and run had Luke and Leia not made it across.

So they were just standing on the platform above them firing at them, without trying to hit, hoping that by some miracle they would make it across? Whos the dense one here?

You, obviously. The Stormtroopers had been ordered not to kill them therefore they didn't.. How many million examples of real-world soldiers following apparently pointless orders do you want?

I rest my case.

So then, you agree that TV interference equals sensor and not cameras being used to film TV shows then? Interesting the lengths you will go to, sad, but interesting.

The problem with TV, shithead, is NOT the camera but the transmission. Which you would know if you had an IQ in excess of a pile of Bantha droppings. Said problem doesn't EXIST where E-nil is concerned, since the cameras would be aboard ship. Hence, no transmission to the studio that could be interfered with.

Are all 3200+ of your posts as equally vacant of logic, evidence and general substance?

No. And I suggest you work on your grammar.

[Vympel]

When I get home tonight I'll have a novelization quote between Tarkin and Vader (after the "terminate her! Immediately!" line) that further reinforces the obvious point (to all but Scrubula) that the Stormtroopers were not under orders to kill the lot of them.

Also, that "you know whats going on" and "maybe its another drill" does not imply anything either way- wow, two grunts couldn't figure out WTF was going on. Incredible.

[Stark]

Hey guys! I get in on a smackdown! I didn't miss it this time!!

Scrubber has missed the way, upon learning that Leia lied about Dantooine, Tarkin flies into rage, demanding her death. Vader, however, conspiratorially announces that 'she may yet be of some use to us.' So, Scrub-boy, what was he talking about? The deleted tentacle-rape scene, or using her to find the rebel base? It's got context (they were just talking about the rebel base, and finding it), its got timing (much earlier than the 'homing beacon secure aboard the ship' quote, and it fits with the other evidence - since Tarkin didn't seem happy with the idea of letting them go, and Vader initially suggested it. Whatcha got?

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Just out of curiosity, and since I havent been following too much, are you honestly trying to claim Scrubula that Tarkin and Vader did not allow Leia and folks to escape?

Try reading before you reply, it'll save alot of timewasted on these ignorant questions.

I'm claiming that stormtroopers were never given an order 'miss on purpose but make it look good'. It's patently ridiculous.

Allowing them to escape could just as easily refer to the light contigent of fighters that were sent to stop the MF. If you guys have proof of this 'miss on purpose but make it look good' theory to counter the multiple counters to it I have posted, then for gods sake, post it already. I have yet to see a single shred of evidence beyond 'Gosh, everyone knows that's how it was! I'm right because I say so.'

I've already give two plausible scenarios that both fit with the dialouge at least as well as 'stormtrooper were trying to miss', with supporting evidence from the stormtrooper themselves that they had no such orders. Do any warsies here actually use evidence, or just rely on the warsie majority to naysay people to death?

There's a certain reason why I did not bother to read, its because I know you are full of shit.

Ok, so a lighter contignent of fighters. Sure, and what exactly happens to the plan when a platoon of Stormies kills our merry bunch, preventing them from escaping and at the same time preventing our merry bunch from leading the Empire to the Rebel base? Ofcourse, the Imperials could have cleared entire sectors of the Death Star to make sure that no Stormies would be in the way when the group escapes. But ofcourse our merry bunch wouldnt think this is a little suspicious now would it? If Leia could already guess the Imperials let them go in the basis of the resistance they met, even Solo would know it if they met no resistance at all.

Its really simple in the end game. Tarkin wanted the Rebels to lead the Imperials to their base, so he simply allows the Rebels to escape. This plan would ofcourse be kinda fucked up if someone A) Shot the Rebels B) The Rebels would become suspicious enough to know they were allowed to go.

Get it now?

[NecronLord]

And could somebody explain exactly what does stormtrooper accuracity has to do with CAPITAL SHIP combat

According to the Revenge of the Sith trailer, stormtroopers probably man the guns.

[Vympel]

The quote:

Tarkin looked puzzled. 'Mos Eisley? Tatooine? What is this? What's this all about, Vader?'

'It means, Tarkin, that the last of our unresolved difficulties is about to be eliminated. Someone apparently received the missing data tapes, learned who transcribed them, and was trying to return them two her. We may be able to facilitate their meeting with the Senator.'

Tarkin started to say something, hesitated, then nodded in understanding. 'How convenient. I leave this matter in your hands, Vader.'

The Dark Lord bowed slightly, a gesture which Tarkin acknowledged with perfunctory salute. Then he spun around and strode from the room, leaving Motti looking from man to man in confusion.

This is after the whole "she lied to us schtick".

[Crown]

And could somebody explain exactly what does stormtrooper accuracity has to do with CAPITAL SHIP combat

According to the Revenge of the Sith trailer, stormtroopers probably man the guns.

In ANH we see this as not being true, for the DS anyway.

[Lord Revan]

I just figured out that "WTF" reaction of the Stormies in the powergenerator fits the "shoot to miss" theory, but not the "Shoot to kill". Remember that the order for "shoot to kill" would be

Intruders aboard, shoot to kill, this not drill. I repeat this not a drill

if the Stormtrooper get rather vague orders (which would fit the shoot to miss theory), they would speculate WTF was going on.

[Lord Revan]

Could the mod slipt the acccuracity rants as they have nothing to do with the point of this thread.

[NecronLord]

In ANH we see this as not being true, for the DS anyway.

Quiet you. Let me post my misleading evidence in peace.

[Perseid]

SW weapons have got an uber range

in ESB from the discussion that Vader has with General Veers the idea for attacking the rebel base was to sit in the outer system and bomard their defences first

also in the NJO books, specifcally the Rebel Dream/Stand books, Wedge tricks the Vong into thinking that they have a weapon that can fire a SL like beam into hyperspace and hit a world ship in orbit around Coruscant.

to make the trick work he has a cruiser sit in the outer system along the vector that the beam was fired from the Pria system and at a specified time the cruiser was to fire on the world ship. okay i know a world ship isn't a big target but it did get hit from the outer system, and if you think about it that world ship would look really small at that distance.

i think the ship was a strike cruiser


now if they have that kind of range on a strike cruisers weapons (MTL at most) then they can hit a ST ship from almost half a system away

[Lord Revan]

Thread nercomancy is bad thing, ok.
And I know that SW ships have long range and great firepower, but that's not the point.

[Darth Wong]

Hey guys! I get in on a smackdown! I didn't miss it this time!!

Scrubber has missed the way, upon learning that Leia lied about Dantooine, Tarkin flies into rage, demanding her death. Vader, however, conspiratorially announces that 'she may yet be of some use to us.' So, Scrub-boy, what was he talking about? The deleted tentacle-rape scene, or using her to find the rebel base? It's got context (they were just talking about the rebel base, and finding it), its got timing (much earlier than the 'homing beacon secure aboard the ship' quote, and it fits with the other evidence - since Tarkin didn't seem happy with the idea of letting them go, and Vader initially suggested it. Whatcha got?

You would think he would have noticed the lack of guards at the entrance they used to get into the docking bay.

[Darth Servo]

The "do you know whats going on" scene only HELPS the "let the rebels escape" theory.

The one trooper thought it might have been a drill. This fits in with the "shoot to miss" theory since you do NOT kill people in drills. If the stormtroopers were under orders to kill Leia and company, there would have been no question about what was going on. They would have known there were intruders on board who needed to be eliminated. How does speculation about it being a drill help the "shoot to kill" theory?

[Darth Wong]

The "do you know whats going on" scene only HELPS the "let the rebels escape" theory.

The one trooper thought it might have been a drill. This fits in with the "shoot to miss" theory since you do NOT kill people in drills. If the stormtroopers were under orders to kill Leia and company, there would have been no question about what was going on. They would have known there were intruders on board who needed to be eliminated. How does speculation about it being a drill help the "shoot to kill" theory?

Because apparently, the order "intruders matching this description are to be shot on sight; this is NOT a drill" would translate into a couple of stormtroopers standing around saying "maybe it's another drill" in the mind of a Trektard.

[UCBooties]

I'm still waiting for a response to this:

As I said before, when ST ships purposely miss, many here would say "That's not that impressive."

Name some examples of when Trek ships purposely miss.

Only thing that springs to mind is Data purposefully missing the Phoenix at the end of "First Contact." Maybe some others, but that's the big one.

Happy?

[Crown]

In ANH we see this as not being true, for the DS anyway.

Quiet you. Let me post my misleading evidence in peace.

Aaaaand for Vader's ISD at the start of the film; 'hold your fire, there are no life signs on board' ...

[Firefox]

Only thing that springs to mind is Data purposefully missing the Phoenix at the end of "First Contact." Maybe some others, but that's the big one.

Happy?

Yep.