Designing the ISDIII, what would you do?

[wilfulton]

Politicians, bureaucrats, and military designers all share a common trait, and that is that they simply cannot leave well enough alone. With that in mind, I am starting to think that Kuat Drive Yards could manufacture a more advanced ship than the ISD II, but it would still be an Imperator Star Destroyer's hull, so I will call it the ISDIII. My question is, how should they go about it? What should they incorporate on this new ship?

What kind of ideas do you guys out there have? I don't mean to stifle creativity, but I must put one limitation on it. It has to be the same size as the ISD I and ISD II. No need to go about extensive retooling of the entire shipyard (I am ass-uming this is an issue) for what is practically an upgrade to the same ship.

Wank it out if you want, I'm just interested in seeing what other people would put on their ISD III, but please understand that I do think a Death Star Superlaser would be a bit out of the question.

EDIT:
DAMN IT! Looks like I've been beaten to the punch line! Okay guys, what would you do to make it even better?

[Lord Revan]

there already is a ISDIII (I don't recall the specs thought).

[NecronLord]

I do recall that it is called the 'New Republic Star Destroyer.'

[Firefox]

First off, I'd add medium or heavy armament to the ventral hull. The ventral bulb could stand better armor protection (and if that increases the ship's mass too greatly, the reactor could be replaced with a larger one). And install better defenses to cover the rear firing arc.

Of course, if I wanted to go along with a Tector type design, I'd do away with the primary docking bay and use that space for more powerplants.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Lets see, ISD-III, ISD-III, Gee, hgow about the one I already Designed?
HERE!

[wilfulton]

Lets see, ISD-III, ISD-III, Gee, hgow about the one I already Designed?
HERE!

That is beautiful! It didn't really conform to my idea of keeping the same hull, but I don't see why we can't make exceptions for a good thing! Cool name too.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Well, all it is, is an ISD hull with Victory style 'Wings' attached so you have room for the Big'ol Über Turbolasers. I figure having them on Bal lstyle turrets give them a much wider fireing arch, as it shoot anything above or bellow as well as in front.

Of course What I am most proud of is splitting that oversized, useless hanger into six small ones. Since this ship sacrifices almost All ground forces for extra space for guns, power cells and over all streamlining things, theres no need for the massive open hanger or landers.

[Illuminatus Primus]

First off, I'd add medium or heavy armament to the ventral hull.

No; the ventral arc has both the hangar bay and the reactor dome; the whole idea is to concentrate your vulnerabilities on one face you can keep away from the enemy while all your weaponry lies opposite; so you can concentrate all your fire without showing any vulnerabilities.

[Ra]

Even so, it's still a blatant weakness a cunning commander would exploit to his or her benefit.

Hmm... no HTL's, an exposed reactor placement, a big fucking hangar I can shoot into... why the hell not? Outmaneuver them and throw everything at the ventral side before the ISD can rotate over.

It would obviously be tricky with larger ships in the same class as an ISD, but my point stands.

I would rather spread out the vulnerabilities. Bury the core inside the ship, not in an exposed bulge. Spread out the hangars and place them on both planes. Put heavy weapons on the ventral side. Cover the rear with better protection. Make the conning tower shorter and less of an obvious target. You have a much more flexible ship that doesn't stupidly have all its vulnerabilities on one side. In war, you want a ship that is as survivable as possible, and has the flexibility to direct heavy fire on any vector.
- Ra

[Illuminatus Primus]

Even so, it's still a blatant weakness a cunning commander would exploit to his or her benefit.

Hmm... no HTL's, an exposed reactor placement, a big fucking hangar I can shoot into... why the hell not? Outmaneuver them and throw everything at the ventral side before the ISD can rotate over.

It would obviously be tricky with larger ships in the same class as an ISD, but my point stands.

I would rather spread out the vulnerabilities. Bury the core inside the ship, not in an exposed bulge. Spread out the hangars and place them on both planes. Put heavy weapons on the ventral side. Cover the rear with better protection. Make the conning tower shorter and less of an obvious target. You have a much more flexible ship that doesn't stupidly have all its vulnerabilities on one side. In war, you want a ship that is as survivable as possible, and has the flexibility to direct heavy fire on any vector.
- Ra

This is stupid.

The Empire can afford the best and finest. Chances are the ISD is optimal already with SW tactics and abilities in SW. You don't assume it goes counter to what the Emperor was willing to pay top dollar for.

Besides, the ISD now would beat your ISD. Your ISD is not so agile it can outmanouver the now ISD to make its shitty layout advantageous. The ISD now dips its nose and pounds your ISD with alpha strikes while yours reaches back with less than half its firepower. Its shields go down, and bolts are directed for soft hangars, a one-way ticket to the soft endostructure.

And with that, your ISD is scrap.

[Ra]

Of course, I'm an obnoxious fool. Conceded.
- Ra

[Crossroads Inc.]

Seriously, why is this such a hard point? All the weapons are one side, and many soft spots are on the other side. Is it that big of a deal to say that could use a little work?

[NecronLord]

The Empire can afford the best and finest. Chances are the ISD is optimal already with SW tactics and abilities in SW.

Err. I'm fairly certain the Mon Cal Liberty is smaller than and generally equal to the ISD in combat effectiveness.

[SpacedTeddyBear]

Well the first thing I'd do is to stagger the 6 heavy TL ,and the 2 Ion turrets, so that all 8 turrets aren't in each other's way in their forward firing arc. Then slap another 2 pair of heavy TL's in the ventral side. If I'm gonna get outmaneuvered, they're gonna have to bleed to do it.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

Can't it be assumed that the heavy TLs are able to all fire forward anyways? At the battle of Endor, when the ships were "in attack position", they had their fronts facing the rebel fleet, not the top or side.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Empire can afford the best and finest. Chances are the ISD is optimal already with SW tactics and abilities in SW.

Err. I'm fairly certain the Mon Cal Liberty is smaller than and generally equal to the ISD in combat effectiveness.

The Liberty also does not carry 10,000 troops and their support armor, a mobile base, and a full wing of fighters (IIRC). And Liberty is a mere 100 meters shorter than an ISD, and according to Ender IIRC, possibly more volumnous.

Its one thing to say "oh we can make a better fleet combatant with the ISD's mass"; yes, but then you make it worse than the current ISD at other things the ISD is supposed to do.

The best answer to this question is probably better armor for the bridge, spread the batteries more so its easier to fire them all forward, and not much else. Pehaps a flotilla of equivalent massed ships but particular roles would benefit from combined arms versus the same weight in ISDs, but the ISD also has an independent role those ships couldn't fulfill.

[Captain Cyran]

Can't it be assumed that the heavy TLs are able to all fire forward anyways? At the battle of Endor, when the ships were "in attack position", they had their fronts facing the rebel fleet, not the top or side.

Considering it would only require a 15-20 degree dip in order to bring all the HTL's to bear while still keeping your profile relatively small, and fully covering up your weak points from direct assaults, that seems likely.

[Crossroads Inc.]

All I know is that I never liked the whole ISD as "Do anything, Jack of all Trades" Starship. The ISD I designed ((See Above Link)) is PURELY a ship killer. All land troops and landforces are gone. Massive heavy Turbo Lasers added. Thats an ISD that I find far more useful in terms of fleet egagments.

[Ra]

I agree. You want to send ground troops, that's what dedicated Troopships (Acclamators and such) are for. Don't clutter up my starship with a ground army.

A "jack of all trades" design can do a lot marginally. A specialist ship can do one thing, and do it well.

A specialized ISD would carry considerably more firepower than one filled with Stormies, and would be able to carry more weaponry so that a base ISD doesn't reduce it to scrap, since spaces used to haul the army and their stuff would be replaced by weapons and weaponry support systems.
- Ra

[Illuminatus Primus]

All I know is that I never liked the whole ISD as "Do anything, Jack of all Trades" Starship. The ISD I designed ((See Above Link)) is PURELY a ship killer. All land troops and landforces are gone. Massive heavy Turbo Lasers added. Thats an ISD that I find far more useful in terms of fleet egagments.

I doubt that ship would work.

Anyway, a better idea of heavy, dedicated fleet destroyer is HIMS Allegiance from Dark Empire, and her brethren.

[Ra]

I doubt that ship would work.

How would it not work? Does a warship need ground forces to conduct space combat missions? Is it overarmed? Underpowered? There are solutions to both problems, obviously. Reducing armament and building a bigger reactor come to mind.
- Ra

[Hawkwings]

well, stormies are useful in defending against boarding operations.

Also, I think the ISD is *meant* to be a jack-of-all trades ship. Think about it for a second. Why design a pure ship-killer if no other galactic power can defeat your jack-of-all-trades ship? Why not put in some ground troops so you can destroy a planet's navy, AND land troops on it?

Prior to the Mon Cal ships, there were no non-imperial ships in the SW galaxy powerful enough to pose a serious threat to an ISD.

[Ra]

True, but it would be a lucky Rebel ship to get in close enough to dock and board an ISD. Most would be reduced to space debris long before that, unless the commander was smart and the battle was so confusing that boarding craft could slip in undetected. But even an ISD without the ground army support systems would have a small contingent of Stormies for security, wouldn't it? Kind of like how modern naval ships carry marines aboard?

But that may not be enough, so I understand your reasoning. However, I doubt they need AT-AT's to defend against boarders. As for landing troops after subjugating the planet, again a good point, but I still think dedicated troopships coming in behind the strike fleet is a better idea. The two different ships can do each task more efficiently. For example, a troopship could enter the atmosphere and land. An ISD cannot.
- Ra

[Crossroads Inc.]

Right, and after the MonCal, amongst otheres, there IS a reason for it, specficlly during the latter Vong Era. Don't tell me the Im perial Remnant wouldn't kill for an All Ship Killer ISD?

[wilfulton]

I agree. You want to send ground troops, that's what dedicated Troopships (Acclamators and such) are for. Don't clutter up my starship with a ground army.

A "jack of all trades" design can do a lot marginally. A specialist ship can do one thing, and do it well.

A specialized ISD would carry considerably more firepower than one filled with Stormies, and would be able to carry more weaponry so that a base ISD doesn't reduce it to scrap, since spaces used to haul the army and their stuff would be replaced by weapons and weaponry support systems.
- Ra

I get the idea that the ISD was designed more with police work than heavy combat in mind. Emperor Palpatine was probably a tad overconfident in himself, and thought that he would need more of a jack of all trades than a dedicated fighting ship, so this is what he came up with. It can be pointed out that the ISD II is designed more to engage more, lighter ships, versus the ISD I's heavier guns to destroy more heavily armored threats. This may be a concession toward police work, rather than a brute force shipkiller.

I love some of the ideas I'm seeing here, but I also want to make sure I'm not being misunderstood. If you are so inclined, please feel free to mount superlasers on your ships (I don't know if on this scale it would be more effective than a heavy turbo laser, but the premise is cool), I just meant no mounting of superlasers that are much bigger than the ISD itself(like that on the death star).