An Idea of mine

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-11 04:34pm

While the numbers are not quite accurate, I like how the facts about ST ship are displayed in DITL.org.

So have thinking of similar way of dsplaying stats for both SW and ST ship as reference guide to Vs. debates (Using canon Numbers of course)

What do think?

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2005-05-11 05:01pm

It's difficult to find canon data on several Star Trek vessels (things like armament and such), but the idea sounds interesting.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-11 05:06pm

I was think of starting with main ships of series (NX, Connie, GCS, DS9, Defiant and SCS) And expand it from there.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-11 06:02pm

I have a problem that I have 50 Mb of web space (I have activate that also, but I think it's still a bit too little for anything decent).

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-05-11 08:19pm

I think the SERIOUS problems with identificating capabilities, and resolving the enourmous disparities, might cause you some problems. GK might be a drooling fanboy, but he HAD to make most of that shit up. Even Alyeska spends most of his time conjecturing. If your goal is to create a more accurate DITL, it's going to be pretty threadbare.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-05-11 10:08pm

Stark wrote:I think the SERIOUS problems with identificating capabilities, and resolving the enourmous disparities, might cause you some problems. GK might be a drooling fanboy, but he HAD to make most of that shit up. Even Alyeska spends most of his time conjecturing. If your goal is to create a more accurate DITL, it's going to be pretty threadbare.

Everything that GK writes is color coded, and if you take the entire site into consideration then a majority of it is color coded.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-05-11 10:09pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Stark wrote:I think the SERIOUS problems with identificating capabilities, and resolving the enourmous disparities, might cause you some problems. GK might be a drooling fanboy, but he HAD to make most of that shit up. Even Alyeska spends most of his time conjecturing. If your goal is to create a more accurate DITL, it's going to be pretty threadbare.
Everything that GK writes is color coded, and if you take the entire site into consideration then a majority of it is color coded.

SIGH, sorry I meant a majority of it is speculation.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-05-11 11:26pm

Yeah, thats what I was saying too. Problem is, if there was information, he'd use it. Thus, any attempt to catalogue ST ships will be either full of conjecture or pretty damn empty.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-12 02:22am

thankfully the main ship entries are mainly yellow or green it's the other ships that have mainly speculations

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2005-05-12 04:54am

Lord Revan wrote:thankfully the main ship entries are mainly yellow or green it's the other ships that have mainly speculations

IIRC, careful examination shows that most of the green stuff (or "behind the scenes") is actually copied (almost) straight out of the Technical Manuals.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-12 11:56am

So IIRC he does also say they're tech manuals

If select our POV correctly we can quite classfied to the unknowns (or just unknown) as unlike the Federation, Old Republic/Empire/New Republic has no problems of somethings secrect (like the correct firepowers of the ships).

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-05-12 12:13pm

Lord Revan wrote:So IIRC he does also say they're tech manuals

If select our POV correctly we can quite classfied to the unknowns (or just unknown) as unlike the Federation, Old Republic/Empire/New Republic has no problems of somethings secrect (like the correct firepowers of the ships).

Which makes the yellow text not so canon.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-12 12:18pm

IIRC the Yellow text is more or less from the episodes or movies themselves so it would canon (green and white on other hand are not)

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2005-05-12 04:06pm

I was hoping to do something similar, but am not sure how to go about it. The Wars stuff should be fairly easy, but what about Trek and some of the other sci-fi series?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-13 07:16am

Kartr_Kana wrote:I was hoping to do something similar, but am not sure how to go about it. The Wars stuff should be fairly easy, but what about Trek and some of the other sci-fi series?

wel if we avoid the ships no nothing but the name (if even that) like the wrecks in Wolf 359 and use unknows or classifieds on the stuff we don't(or can't) know.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-13 07:54am

Also do you a web space you use, since if you have I think we might be able to make something workble

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2005-05-13 07:16pm

Freewebs is what I use http:\\www.freewebs.com/kartr_kana. Not much yet, but I would be willing to host some of the info. I do not have much space, since I am only using the free hosting and paying for it yet. Email me if you want to.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-05-13 08:23pm

Revan, you plan on using the utterly discredited Technical Manuals? Why? Will you use the 1.5kg reaction mass for PTs, regardless of the evidence onscreen?

SW has the advantage of newer sources that are written by people with a clue. ST stuff, to my knowledge, is almost 100% baseless nonsense. Basing capabilities on the show will draw you into endless debates about nonsense.

Can you outline your approach? Obviously onscreen evidence is king, but will you be using all five shows? The TMs? Will you express things as upper/lower limits? Will you describe weapons as 'Type X phasers' when such terms are complete inventions?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-05-13 08:24pm

Ghetto edit - I don't mean to sound negative: I think a database such as you're proposing would be excellent, particularly if written from a non-fanboyish, non-biased attitude. However, I would expect most Trekkies to disregard everything you say, since a) you're being logical and b) you post on SDN.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-13 08:52pm

well I'm thinking of using the TM only if there's no other option, otherwise they're a no-no.

firepower such thing I'll as some kind of (range) estimate if there's no exact value (So I'll say somewere between these values, but I can't tell the exact value for some reasons)

as my view point (New) Republic/Empire/(Old) Jedi Order database there won't anything not said on screen about trek weapons (so no phaser types)

And yeah I'm well awere that most (vs) trekkies would think I'm being bias for SW, but most fundies would I'm being bias for atheist if tell opinion of the Bible and don't see me giving a dam about that, so why should trekkies be any different?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-13 09:11pm

I'll try make something to show you my view point soon.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-14 03:34pm

OK

here's some stat examples

Wars

Name:Delta-7 Aethersprite
Type:interceptor (starfighter)
Length:8 meters
FTL Capabilities:hyperdrive via external drive ring (range 150 000 light years)
sublight acceleration:5000 g
Crew: 1 pilot and 1 build-in astromech droid
Weapons:2 dual lasercannons total yield of 2 kt per volley.

Trek

Name:Galaxy class
type:exporer (battleship?)
Length:640 m (uncertain)
FTL capabilities: warp drive (max warp 9.6(see notes))
Sublight acceleration:unknown (but estimated at about 1000 g)
crew:1000 (including civilians and children)
weaponsat least 5 phaser strips max yield unknown (estimated at low Mt range at most) and 2 torpedo launchers (torpedo yield at Kt- Mt range (some sources say 64 Mt per torp but this is observed to untrue (or at least inaccurate)))

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-05-14 08:30pm

Maybe it'd be worth looking through the database - Mike used a few incidents to get maximum speed numbers, and perhaps you could do the same. Not sure it'd work on a per-ship basis, though.

Perhaps a ST person can correct me, but does the 1000 dudes on E-D include just crew, or civilians too? Wierd.

Acceleration numbers should be retrievable from the show.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-14 10:08pm

Perhaps a ST person can correct me, but does the 1000 dudes on E-D include just crew, or civilians too? Wierd.

Several times throughout the TNG, the full complement of crew and civilians is stated at being inbetween 115 and 117.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-14 10:08pm

Crap, make that 1015 and 1017.