XBox 360 revealed on MTV; painful. Specs revealed.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-05-13 05:21pm

Master of Ossus wrote:How can it have specs that are this good, yet produce screenshots that are this bad?

Hardware != graphical beauty.

You know, someone must actully sit down and use the hardware.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-05-13 05:54pm

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
Praxis wrote:
desertjedi wrote:I do have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered anywhere:

1. Backwards compatibility with Xbox games?
2. Will it be able to stream high definition video from your PC or media player?
3. How long before I can start modding it to accept Xvid and other non-MS codecs for my tv?
For #1, doesn't look like it yet unless they include an x86 core.
I'm guessing the mainboard would be packed enough as it is. Adding a dedicated x86 core would involve adding all the supporting chipset hardware required to get the Celeron/P3 core that came in XBox to play nicely with the memory and graphics subsystem. So no, there isn't going to be any hardware support for old XBox games.

This leaves software emulation. Which is to say we use software to translate the x86 instructions coming out of the XBox 1 game into the equivalent series of PPC instructions. However, software emulation is fundamentally slow and inefficient. Though the original XBox, I think had a Celeron running at around 700-733 MHz. The XBox 360 will have three PPCs running at 3200 MHz. Naively, one might say one of the XBox 360 cores is over four times faster than the original XBox CPU. (Practically speaking, they're probably closer to, say, 6x-8x faster, due to the the more modern processors being capable of getting more done per clock cycle than the old Celeron chip.)

Though that's not to say it's not doable. After all, a PPC processor is found in modern Macs, and Microsoft already puts out a PC emulator for the Mac called Virtual PC. And casually inspecting other x86-to-RISC emulations which have been done (such as PocketDOS for PocketPC, for instance) suggests that the chips at the heart of XBox 360 should be just fast enough to provide a decent XBox software emulator.

Look, we had a huge debate about this already. It MIGHT be possible, but it's so different from a normal PowerPC it will probably be near impossible.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-05-13 06:05pm

Ace Pace wrote:Hardware != graphical beauty.

You know, someone must actully sit down and use the hardware.

I mean... I obviously realize that, but... have you seen that screenshot? They are SERIOUSLY undermining the performance of the system if they release a game that looks half that bad.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-05-13 08:33pm

My question is how are they going to hit the 'home media' market, with an overblown games machine that will cost way more than a dedicated media box would? From the expected price in AU, for a few hundred more I could buy a miniMac.

JointStrikeFighter · Post by **JointStrikeFighter** » 2005-05-14 02:44am

do have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered anywhere:

1. Backwards compatibility with Xbox games?
2. Will it be able to stream high definition video from your PC or media player?
3. How long before I can start modding it to accept Xvid and other non-MS codecs for my tv?

Well, some guy in the MTV vid did mention being able to downaload stuff for ahlo2 on the Xbox 360, so maybe he kinda screwed up and leaked it. Though he could have been an idiot who ddint know what he was talking about.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-05-14 02:47am

JointStrikeFighter wrote:
do have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered anywhere:

1. Backwards compatibility with Xbox games?
2. Will it be able to stream high definition video from your PC or media player?
3. How long before I can start modding it to accept Xvid and other non-MS codecs for my tv?

Well, some guy in the MTV vid did mention being able to downaload stuff for ahlo2 on the Xbox 360, so maybe he kinda screwed up and leaked it. Though he could have been an idiot who ddint know what he was talking about.

Interestingly, one of the rumors was that the hard drive for the XBox 360 comes with Halo 2.5 (Halo 2 with updated graphics and new features) preinstalled.

That fits with Microsoft's comment, "We have something special in mind for Halo 2 players".

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2005-05-14 02:59am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Ace Pace wrote:Hardware != graphical beauty.

You know, someone must actully sit down and use the hardware.
I mean... I obviously realize that, but... have you seen that screenshot? They are SERIOUSLY undermining the performance of the system if they release a game that looks half that bad.

That's just where they're at now. Halo 2 looked like shit from almost all of thier early videos, and was still looking a bit rough at the E3 showing. I almost never bother with screenshots anyways. If you ever look at PS2 screenshots in the mags, they're always crap quality. It's going to have to wait until they start putting demo units in the stores before you can really tell what it's going to be like.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2005-05-14 08:37am

It should possibly be noted that most of the first gen PS2 games looked like arse, First gen games on new platforms are often rough, because the developers have to learn a whole new set of tricks to make the new chips jump..

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2005-05-14 10:01am

ggs wrote:It could alternatively be the perfered processor for the always on dashboard & integrated MSN features and sound.

Under an NT Kernel, you can set which processor an application will prefer. By doing this you can exploit the fact that most applications arent going to be using all of the cores 100% of the time anyway.

Going by the specs all 3 cores are identical.

Why do I get the horrible fealing for this 'integration', that the OS will be a mismash of the NT, 2003 and XP kernals rolled into one...possibly with something from ME stuck into it as well...?

Still, I have hope that they'll go in planing on being able to at the least run a virtual X-Box, they have enough bloody power.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-05-14 10:45am

Chris OFarrell wrote:
Why do I get the horrible fealing for this 'integration', that the OS will be a mismash of the NT, 2003 and XP kernals rolled into one...possibly with something from ME stuck into it as well...?

The Windows XP sp2 kernel & Windows 2003 sp1 kernel are actually the same thing, and the version number for the entire Windows XP is Windows NT 5.1 and for Win2k3 is WinNT 5.2.

Yes, untill Win2k3sp1(WinNT 5.2
) was released WinXPsp1(WinNT 5.1) actually has a newer version of the kernel. And the Longhorn kernel is actually based off the Windows 2003 sp1 codebase.

Windows ME hasnt been any were near kernel space for a very very long time.

Still, I have hope that they'll go in planing on being able to at the least run a virtual X-Box, they have enough bloody power.

Amen.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-05-14 12:05pm

Chris OFarrell wrote: Still, I have hope that they'll go in planing on being able to at the least run a virtual X-Box, they have enough bloody power.

Doesn't look like it.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2005-05-14 05:05pm

Does anyone know what the 360 is going to cost? A rough ballpark estimate will suffice.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-05-14 05:47pm

Probably $299 with no HD...

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-05-14 08:11pm

Praxis, where's that number from? I figured (given the shit it's packing) that launch would be AU$600, which is about US$400, but I'm just making shit up. And have we worked out if the HDD is an option or default?

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-05-15 12:27am

Stark wrote:Praxis, where's that number from? I figured (given the shit it's packing) that launch would be AU$600, which is about US$400, but I'm just making shit up. And have we worked out if the HDD is an option or default?

Its definetly an option.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-05-15 02:47am

Stark wrote:Praxis, where's that number from? I figured (given the shit it's packing) that launch would be AU$600, which is about US$400, but I'm just making shit up. And have we worked out if the HDD is an option or default?

Opinion and the guestimates of market analysises. Not official at all.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-05-15 02:48am

This is probably a ridiculous conspiracy theory, but anyone notice the disclaimer on the page?

The information contained in this fact sheet relates to a prerelease product that may be substantially modified before its first commercial release. Accordingly, the information may not accurately describe or reflect the product when first commercially released. This fact sheet is provided for informational purposes only, and Microsoft makes no warranties, express or implied, with respect to the fact sheet or the information contained in it.

I wonder how much of these specs are even real.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-05-15 03:25am

Praxis wrote:Probably $299 with no HD...

It makes utterly no sense for the Xbox360 to not ship with a harddrive considering Microsoft's Live marketting strategy. Even the basic free live service requires bulk storage to even work.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-05-15 03:44am

Not considering the 64 MB memory cards.

So far all info points to no HD standard.

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2005-05-15 07:13am

Master of Ossus wrote:How can it have specs that are this good, yet produce screenshots that are this bad?

They are probably just posting the absolute upper-limit specs. The "real" specs, from actual games that is and not just experiments, are probably much worse. There is also the possibility that MS is lying to your face. Wouldn't be the first time...

And, sorry MS, but I don't really give a shit how many DVD formats your console can play, or what it can do besides play games. I have a DVD-player for playing DVDs and a radio for listening to FM. If I buy a coffee machine, I don't want it to make cookies of some of the coffee or do something else that is going reduce the quality of the actual coffee it makes.

But I suppose this is Bill Gates' big dream. To have huge all purpose media centers, so Microsoft can have a monopoly, not only in software, but in home entertainment as well...

I'll stop ranting now.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2005-05-15 09:29am

X-Box 360 is going to be 300? I thought they bit the price on the X-Box so that the next gen they could make a profit off the system because of an already established fan base.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2005-05-15 11:08am

Damn, is Xbox 360 the official name now? Fucking stupid.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-05-15 11:55am

Anarchist Bunny wrote:X-Box 360 is going to be 300? I thought they bit the price on the X-Box so that the next gen they could make a profit off the system because of an already established fan base.

Yea. Now they have to increase the price so they'll actually make a profit off the folks who are now brand-loyal.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-05-15 11:56am

Anarchist Bunny wrote:X-Box 360 is going to be 300? I thought they bit the price on the X-Box so that the next gen they could make a profit off the system because of an already established fan base.

Like I said, that was the estimate of market analysis dudes I read. The actual price could be anything MS decides on.

But if it was $300 without a hard drive they could probably make a profit now that they are using custom hardware from IBM and ATi. Last time the off the shelf components + hard drive killed them in price.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2005-05-15 04:00pm

But I suppose this is Bill Gates' big dream. To have huge all purpose media centers, so Microsoft can have a monopoly, not only in software, but in home entertainment as well...

Right, because Microsoft is the only company trying to do it... have you forgotten Sony's attempt to push a Media Center PS2, complete with DVD-RW and video recording?

I thought they bit the price on the X-Box so that the next gen they could make a profit off the system because of an already established fan base.

Profit in the console business comes from software, not hardware. I doubt ANY of the big-three manufacturers will take less than a $300 loss on each system sold.