Stormtrooper armor modifications

[wilfulton]

As we have observed on screen, it looks like Imperial Stormtrooper Armor doesn't quite live up to its purpose of protecting the man inside against hostile fire. While unfortunately, no form of armor can provide complete protection, something I feel that does need to be asked, is that if this armor can't protect against a blaster bolt, what good is it, and what is the point of wearing it?

I'm sure that some of the stormtroopers could be asking this very question as well. As good soldiers, they obey orders and the duty uniform of the day consists of their faceless white ceramic armor, so that is what they wear. But, our loyal stormtroopers deserve a fighting chance. They deserve some form of protection against hostile fire.

My Proposed alterations/adjustments:

Increase thickness of torso plates to the front. Since Stormtroopers tend to face their enemies, they are most likely to get shot in the front. Therefore, it makes sense to me that their armor should be strengthened in the front to resist blaster bolts. While this would increase the weight, and possibly reduce flexibility, I don't see that these are much of an issue anyway, as Stormtroopers haven't been observed doing much in the way of acrobatics in their armor.

Personal shields would also be an excellent addition, however there has been some concern over radioactivity of the projectors. If research cannot develop a safer, economical alternative, some ideas for dealing with this problem include embedding the shield generator in lead, or simply utilize a wrist-mounted shield system on the trooper's non-firing forearm. He can thus activate his shield and carry it much like a roman Scutum (tower shield), which would protect him as long as the enemy didn't sneak up behind him. In any case, the generator would most likely be powered down most of the time, and activated only when the trooper knew he was going into combat. Squad leaders, of course, would have the added responsibility of ensuring that thier troopers' shields were up.

Additionally, the armor would be modified to support external camouflage, such as local foliage, or ghillie suits. This could simply be done with velcro, or a fabric covering with slits in it to accept camouflage items.

Does anyone else have any ideas, suggestions, nitpicks, or their own ideas for new stormtrooper armor?
I am especially interested in comments from stormtroopers

[Trytostaydead]

To be fair, even body armor today cannot stop all types of bullets so it would be unfair to expect stormtrooper armor to be able to protect them against all forms of blaster fire. Though the whole "getting ass kicked by bows and arrows shot at 5mph" thing does throw in a brain bug.

[Hawkwings]

well, the armor survives getting shot by blasters, it's the person inside that doesn't.

The wear the armor because it provides full NBC protection, plus the sensor equipment, comm equipment, vision modes, all sorts of tech goodies inside.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Stormtrooper armor can accomodate camo (ref: ROTS) and is designed mostly to retard/limit blaster damage and protect against any shrapnel/glancing hits/gas/radiation/bio weapons. It is not supposed to stop any blaster hits aside from maybe a real wimpy sporting blaster in its densest parts.

I bet dedicated planetary assault stormtroopers have more extensive and complex armor reminscient or perhaps nearly identical to the Clonetroopers in the prequels.

[Captain tycho]

Stormie armor is designed to deflect glancing shots and shrapnel, not direct hits, much like modern body armor. Given the amount of high velocity debris blaster bolts tend to kick around when they hit a wall or the ground, stormtrooper armor makes far more sense if you look at it that way, rather than as a tool for stopping blaster bolts head-on.

[Captain tycho]

Also, it must be mentioned, stormtroopers (or at least the forerunning clonetroopers seen in ROTS) do make good use of camo paint for their armor.

[Kurgan]

Seems he's asking how to improve Stormtrooper armor, so are you guys saying it's right now (OT era) as good as it can be?

[Vympel]

I bet dedicated planetary assault stormtroopers have more extensive and complex armor reminscient or perhaps nearly identical to the Clonetroopers in the prequels.

I really like this idea. I was thinking about this back when AotC came out- the more complicated parts of Clonetrooper armor (the individual knee and elbow pieces for example) would definitely be left out, but I like the idea of Stormtroopers having heavier armor at their disposal.

[Lord of the Farce]

As we have observed on screen, it looks like Imperial Stormtrooper Armor doesn't quite live up to its purpose of protecting the man inside against hostile fire. While unfortunately, no form of armor can provide complete protection, something I feel that does need to be asked, is that if this armor can't protect against a blaster bolt, what good is it, and what is the point of wearing it?

Far from movie cannon, but the intro cinematics for the game "Force Commander" indicates that while Stormtrooper armour is far from immune to damage from blasters, it can potentially reduce the injury caused by blaster carbines from fatal, to serious but recoverable. And IIRC, the novel "Tatooine Ghost" indicated that Stormtrooper armour can in fact reflect away weaker and/or shots that hit it at certain angles.

As for possible improvements, I would say that there should be a bit more protection for the wearer's:

• Eyes - shouldn't be much of a problem, since they are already getting artificial visuals, and...
• Neck - a bit more difficult to do, if you want to avoid messing around with the wearer's ability to look around. But something like a collar extending up from the torso armour plates should help.

This is because we know from "Tatooine Ghost" that shots to those areas from slug-throwers are pretty much the only ones which kept the wearer down for good.

[wilfulton]

To be fair, even body armor today cannot stop all types of bullets so it would be unfair to expect stormtrooper armor to be able to protect them against all forms of blaster fire. Though the whole "getting ass kicked by bows and arrows shot at 5mph" thing does throw in a brain bug.

This is true, however, I would like to point out that the interceptor body armor worn by US troops in Iraq is capable of stopping rounds from an AK-47, the most commonly encountered threat outside of shrapnel.

To break it down, the kevlar part of the vest is only good for 9mm. Thick ceramic plates are inserted into pockets in the outside of the vest, which cover the front and back of the wearer's torso, the most likely places for a soldier to be shot. These plates will stop AK-47, or M-80 Ball from a .308, which is a bit more powerful. No, it won't stop the most powerful firearms out there, but it will stop the most commonly encountered threat in the area most likely to cause a fatal injury.
If the question arises as to how I know all this, I am in the army, and I have entrusted my life to this equipment before.

Our older 1980-era flak vests, produced during the earlier days of kevlar, will only stop shrapnel, which does actually account for 75% of all battlefield casualties, (from a little fact sheet in the back of the vest). However, while this is the most commonly encountered threat in the modern world, I haven't seen this as the most commonly encountered threat in star wars.

Imperial stormtrooper armor has shown incapable of protecting against small hand blasters, which seem to amount for most of the casualties we've seen on screen. Ideally, it should be able to stand up to a direct hit from the trooper's own blaster.

While NBC and vaccuum protection, sound nice, we haven't really seen those types of situations onscreen, although it is possible that they may have crossed vaccuum to board Tantive IV in ANH, we don't know for sure.
In the end, there is always room for improvement. If a design can no longer be improved, it is time to scrap it for being obsolete.

[Illuminatus Primus]

If a design can no longer be improved, it is time to scrap it for being obsolete.

What the fuck? If you can do no better than you best not scrap it because its apex of development; you're not going to be replacing it with better.

Consider that Stormtroopers are frequently deployed in peacekeeping, security, interdiction, and occupation duties. Their standard armor is likely to be proof against typical civilian blaster arms and hunting weapons (which, due to the peculiarites of SW weaponry, are, unlike terrestrial projectile hunting weapons, likely to be much much weaker than military counterparts). Consider that the rebel crew of the Tantive IV knew that boarding operations called for the use of Imperial Marines, and aware of their armor protection, armed themselves accordingly.

If it is not feasible to stop military-grade blasterfire economically, than one should not waste time trying. To this end, stopping glancing hits from military-grade arms and shrapnel from impacts (look at Han Solo's hits on the walls of Docking Bay 94 in ANH; those explosions are fierce). And you place an absurd dilemma on the filmic evidence. If the armor is designed to be proof against concussion and shrapnel and the troopers wear full-body sets of it, we should not see shrapnel forming a majority of casualties in the films, or it would not be doing its job.

Furthermore, in the films or EU we have yet to witness normal body armor capable of stopping military-grade blaster arms. The only example coming to mind for me is the phrik-alloy armor plating on the Dark Trooper Project droids. And for obvious reasons, this is impractical for humans - muscle strength alone cannot carry the armor and the heavy armament - the Phase III wearable model is a powered exosuit. I suspect that commando and insertion teams rely on stealth and personal deflector shields for greater protection than average. That's not to say that again, planetary assault Stormies do not have better armor, but if anything, the area of coverage is just better, like old-style Clonetroopers, and probably thicker chest plates capable of withstanding more powerful pistols.

[FOG3]

I bet dedicated planetary assault stormtroopers have more extensive and complex armor reminscient or perhaps nearly identical to the Clonetroopers in the prequels.

I really like this idea. I was thinking about this back when AotC came out- the more complicated parts of Clonetrooper armor (the individual knee and elbow pieces for example) would definitely be left out, but I like the idea of Stormtroopers having heavier armor at their disposal.

You mean like Dark Troopers?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Dark Trooper armor cannot be carried with human muscle strength.

[tumbletom]

I like the idea of having a physical shield--like ya know, that knights had, exept sw style.

[wilfulton]

What the fuck? If you can do no better than you best not scrap it because its apex of development; you're not going to be replacing it with better.

Hmm...just because it's at the apex of its development NOW doesn't mean it can't be improved in the future by stronger materials. I tend to feel that there is always room for improvement.

Consider that Stormtroopers are frequently deployed in peacekeeping, security, interdiction, and occupation duties.

Agreed

Their standard armor is likely to be proof against typical civilian blaster arms and hunting weapons (which, due to the peculiarites of SW weaponry, are, unlike terrestrial projectile hunting weapons, likely to be much much weaker than military counterparts).

Emphasis mine: As a stormtrooper, would you want to bet your life on that? Seems like powerful blasters are quite available. Han Solo wasn't carrying no pea shooter.

Consider that the rebel crew of the Tantive IV knew that boarding operations called for the use of Imperial Marines, and aware of their armor protection, armed themselves accordingly.

The weapons carried by the rebel crew looked pretty much the same from what I could see. That suggested to me that the standard sidearm could penetrate stormtrooper armor, because they were practically pistols. That's why I felt it necessary to get a new suit of stormtrooper armor.

If it is not feasible to stop military-grade blasterfire economically, than one should not waste time trying.

Tell that to the man killed by a direct hit. Consider also: it costs about $35,000 to $100,000 to train a soldier. An interceptor vest complete with ceramic plates costs about $1500, and an older flak vest costs about $300 (that's brand new, so don't flame me about the one you saw at the Army surplus for fifty bucks whose outer shell is all frayed please). The interceptor vest with SAPI plates can protect the man wearing it against the weapons he is most likely to face (ie, the standard armament of the enemy, the older vest cannot.

(I will concede the possibility that my experience could lead me to draw a false analogy here, because remember, I am way more familiar with modern weapons and armor, than SW, but I still feel that if the most commonly encountered threat weapon is capable of defeating personal body armor, it is time to develop stronger armor)

To this end, stopping glancing hits from military-grade arms and shrapnel from impacts (look at Han Solo's hits on the walls of Docking Bay 94 in ANH; those explosions are fierce). And you place an absurd dilemma on the filmic evidence. If the armor is designed to be proof against concussion and shrapnel and the troopers wear full-body sets of it, we should not see shrapnel forming a majority of casualties in the films, or it would not be doing its job.

I concede

Furthermore, in the films or EU we have yet to witness normal body armor capable of stopping military-grade blaster arms. The only example coming to mind for me is the phrik-alloy armor plating on the Dark Trooper Project droids. And for obvious reasons, this is impractical for humans - muscle strength alone cannot carry the armor and the heavy armament - the Phase III wearable model is a powered exosuit. I suspect that commando and insertion teams rely on stealth and personal deflector shields for greater protection than average. That's not to say that again, planetary assault Stormies do not have better armor, but if anything, the area of coverage is just better, like old-style Clonetroopers, and probably thicker chest plates capable of withstanding more powerful pistols.

The budget committee is gonna hate me, but I think I found my new suit

[Illuminatus Primus]

Hmm...just because it's at the apex of its development NOW doesn't mean it can't be improved in the future by stronger materials. I tend to feel that there is always room for improvement.

Well you need to better educate yourself in SW civilization. They have reached the apex of civilization within the galactic context. They are politically, developmentally, socially, economically, technologically, and scientifically stagnant, in a state of stasis for 25,000 years.

Rest assured that standard Stormtroopers are probably the best solution to whatever combination of problems the Stormtroopers exist to remedy.

Emphasis mine: As a stormtrooper, would you want to bet your life on that? Seems like powerful blasters are quite available. Han Solo wasn't carrying no pea shooter.

Does the Imperial Marines have a fucking choice? You think the Empire intentionally skims on armor - and did so even with the Clonetroopers - an armed fighting force they relied on for survival in the Clone Wars? Get real.

The weapons carried by the rebel crew looked pretty much the same from what I could see. That suggested to me that the standard sidearm could penetrate stormtrooper armor, because they were practically pistols. That's why I felt it necessary to get a new suit of stormtrooper armor.

They were VERY large pistols by terrestrial standards and even by the standard of Han's very powerful DL-44 heavy pistol. And "they look like pistols" is an ignorant overgeneralization. Pistols can fire different calibers and at different muzzle velocities with different penetration and damaging properties. And pistols in SW can fire different yields.

Tell that to the man killed by a direct hit. Consider also: it costs about $35,000 to $100,000 to train a soldier. An interceptor vest complete with ceramic plates costs about $1500, and an older flak vest costs about $300 (that's brand new, so don't flame me about the one you saw at the Army surplus for fifty bucks whose outer shell is all frayed please). The interceptor vest with SAPI plates can protect the man wearing it against the weapons he is most likely to face (ie, the standard armament of the enemy, the older vest cannot.

And you got this false presumption that practical and economical advancement (i.e., not the level of advancement of the interceptor vests to older flak jackets, terrestrially speaking - that's exactly what I was saying must not be possible) is feasible - how, again?

(I will concede the possibility that my experience could lead me to draw a false analogy here, because remember, I am way more familiar with modern weapons and armor, than SW, but I still feel that if the most commonly encountered threat weapon is capable of defeating personal body armor, it is time to develop stronger armor)

The fact that the type of weaponry and yields as well as tactics and scope of galactic war and civilization haven't changed in 25,000 years is a big hint this kind of advancement doesn't role-over every thirty years like on Earth.

The budget committee is gonna hate me, but I think I found my new suit

There's probably incrementally better protection for marines and Army soldiers in "hotter" theaters than seen in the movies, but the analogous difference between vests-with and vests-without-ceramic plates terrestrially, I doubt it.

If you're lucky to be one of the cyborg or powered-suit-wearing Dark Troopers, you got it, but for normal grunts - no dice.

[Kurgan]

Personal shields, at least post ROTJ, but those were created specifically for the games, so go figure...

Though the Republic Commando game has the Clone Commandos using weak regenerative personal shields over their armor.

Shields + Armor = good combination for protection in SW ground combat it seems.

And don't give me the "oh it's too expensive" bit. We're not talking about full Darktrooper suits, and maybe the Empire can funnel some of that Super Weapon of the Week money into some decent protection for their troops once in awhile... dang wasteful spending dictatorships!

Just because Star Wars might be in "technological stasis" doesn't mean they can't make existing designs more effecient or improved (after all we're not talking about inventing new technologies out of whole cloth overnight).

[Gunhead]

I suppose one could use that molecular bonding tech used on Star's end.
It would propably need refining and tweaking, but the basic tech is there. It doesn't take a huge leap of faith to say SW tech heads could use it to make stronger armor.
So IMO it's really a matter of cost.

-Gunhead

[Noble Ire]

Personal shields, at least post ROTJ, but those were created specifically for the games, so go figure...

Not a bad idea considering the personal shield projector in the Dark Trooper series used by Kyle Katarn is "canon" enough to be in the New essential guide to Technology (even if it does supposedly have significantly less power.) Even if giving one to every trooper would cost too much, you could still beef up commandos, squad captians, guards, etc.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Personal shields, at least post ROTJ, but those were created specifically for the games, so go figure...

Though the Republic Commando game has the Clone Commandos using weak regenerative personal shields over their armor.

Shields + Armor = good combination for protection in SW ground combat it seems.

And don't give me the "oh it's too expensive" bit. We're not talking about full Darktrooper suits, and maybe the Empire can funnel some of that Super Weapon of the Week money into some decent protection for their troops once in awhile... dang wasteful spending dictatorships!

Just because Star Wars might be in "technological stasis" doesn't mean they can't make existing designs more effecient or improved (after all we're not talking about inventing new technologies out of whole cloth overnight).

Well prove its possible and economical for the same weight. You can't, there's not enough data, and you don't presume the design is inefficient or shitty. I win.

[wilfulton]

Apex or no, there is always room for improvement. I just watched ANH again, and taking a close look at stormtrooper armor, it can be made better. The breastplate most certainly has room to accomodate two extra layers of similar thickness. I'm sure there's also room to equip shields, since it doesn't seem like the suit is really that heavy, judging by how the wearers move.

And back to the intended purpose of this thread, I'm mostly interested in can you build a better suit of stormtrooper armor. I don't see why a simple improvement can't be economical, something so simple as just adding extra layers to it of the same material. As far as protection from fragmentation goes, it seems that Luke and Leia did fine in just their clothes against near misses, while in the docking bay scene much earlier, it appears that stormtroopers were killed by debris blown off the walls by Han Solo's pistol.

What I'm getting at is, an armored man doesn't seem to be any harder to kill than an unarmored man, and I feel this is not right, as I don't think anyone is going to dispute me on the fact that armor is in general supposed to protect. That is why the stress over a better suit. I believe I've already clarified what a soldier's life is worth, and so skimping on the price of armor is a fool's game, economically speaking, because it costs more to replace those killed than to buy better equipment. Furthermore, mass production, and then competition between companies to develop a better product for less, does tend to drive costs down, so it is economical to protect your ground soldiers.

There is always room for improvement, and as I said earlier, what is economy to the soldier killed when the cheaper armor failed to stop the enemy's weapon?

[Ghost Rider]

Apex or no, there is always room for improvement. I just watched ANH again, and taking a close look at stormtrooper armor, it can be made better. The breastplate most certainly has room to accomodate two extra layers of similar thickness. I'm sure there's also room to equip shields, since it doesn't seem like the suit is really that heavy, judging by how the wearers move.

But at what level? Unless you can provide that that extra layer is going to stop Han's blaster or rifles, it's useless just to "Extra armor!"

And back to the intended purpose of this thread, I'm mostly interested in can you build a better suit of stormtrooper armor. I don't see why a simple improvement can't be economical, something so simple as just adding extra layers to it of the same material. As far as protection from fragmentation goes, it seems that Luke and Leia did fine in just their clothes against near misses, while in the docking bay scene much earlier, it appears that stormtroopers were killed by debris blown off the walls by Han Solo's pistol.

Like I said before, unless it can be shown that this extra layer is going to even slow the firepower of the Han's pistol or rifles, it's doing what is intended...which is stopping glancing shots.

That and Luke and Leia were ordered by Vader not to be killed on most occasions while Han had no such compunction.

What I'm getting at is, an armored man doesn't seem to be any harder to kill than an unarmored man, and I feel this is not right, as I don't think anyone is going to dispute me on the fact that armor is in general supposed to protect. That is why the stress over a better suit. I believe I've already clarified what a soldier's life is worth, and so skimping on the price of armor is a fool's game, economically speaking, because it costs more to replace those killed than to buy better equipment. Furthermore, mass production, and then competition between companies to develop a better product for less, does tend to drive costs down, so it is economical to protect your ground soldiers.

Given that said armored man can taken trauma from a droid flinging a spear powerful enough to propel him off his feet, multiple meters into a wall and shrug it off, it's does a lot better then an unarmored man.

Blasters are loads of power and honestly unless you can find somewhere in the EU of some economically viable source that will shrug off such shots other glancing blows, you're essentially wanting wank armor.

There is always room for improvement, and as I said earlier, what is economy to the soldier killed when the cheaper armor failed to stop the enemy's weapon?

Given that he can take most glancing shots and blunt force that would kill a regular man, let alone be in a encased shell that renders most gas attacks pointless, you have to show why they should amp armor to even meet blaster standards. They have shown that most handheld range from piddling to the highest being able to pierce Starfighter windows. Very hard to try an make an armor that would encompass that, instead they created a suit that is supposed to protect from glance blows and most attacks other then blasters, thus limiting the available means to kill said trooper.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Apex or no, there is always room for improvement. I just watched ANH again, and taking a close look at stormtrooper armor, it can be made better. The breastplate most certainly has room to accomodate two extra layers of similar thickness. I'm sure there's also room to equip shields, since it doesn't seem like the suit is really that heavy, judging by how the wearers move.

And you know how much the armor costs by kg? How about how stuffy the armor really is? Have you worn the in-universe suit? How about these extra layers of armor - would they actually make any difference versus the "typical" military blaster arm? How do you know? Unjustified assertion?

Face it - there is no reason to assume economical, man-portable mass-production protection against typical military small arms exists in SW given that it has NEVER been seen to be deployed.

Heavy armor proof against small arms has only been deployed to very small, special forces units upgraded with bionic implants or incorporated in powered armor. This does not suggest it is either economical for mass-production or mass-deployment or that it is man-portable for the unaided trooper. Personal deflector shields have only been demonstrated with one man infiltrators/commandos and by a prince of a militaristic and isolationist kingdom. This does not suggest they are economical for mass production or mass deployment.

The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that the capacity to apply technology for the average soldier to protect against the typical military small arm exists. The only two examples of such technology can easily be ruled out due to their rarity (and therefore likely possessing drawbacks due to radiation emission, longevity, robustness, cost, and complexity of maintanence and manufacture for personal shields, and mostly weight and bulk for body armor).

Demonstrate examples that would imply that such technology or other technologies is available and capable of practical. mass production and/or mass deployment. You suggest more layers of standard armor. Demonstrate this will actually stop the small arms fire to justify increased weight. Prove the armor weight with the additional layers is not prohibitive. Prove that there is more room, comfortably, for more layers.

And back to the intended purpose of this thread, I'm mostly interested in can you build a better suit of stormtrooper armor. I don't see why a simple improvement can't be economical, something so simple as just adding extra layers to it of the same material.

In terms of KE, the standard stormtrooper armor is probably resistant to anything terrestrial up-to and including 20 mm AAA fire. Whether a human could withstand additional momentum from being thrashed around is another thing entirely. Additional thickness of armor may make it more proof against more massive or higher velocity impactors and nothing else, whereas the practical limit on incident momentum for the human body inside has already been reached in the standard thickness. The additional layers may make the armor more survivable, but then the wearer is already dead from the shock.

I don't see any difference that greater layers of standard armor will make against small arms fire, and you haven't justified that it will. You haven't even really demonstrated its even possible.

Not to mention, let's say it does retard standard E-11 hits. SW blaster weapons have adjustible yields. Protection isn't really unless your protection is resistant to max yields of the enemy's small arms. Otherwise the enemy just dials up a bit, burns through ammo a bit faster, but kills your more expensively-equipped troops just the same.

The DC-15 can put a half-meter crater in what SW uses as concrete (and supports kilometers-high buildings on the ecumenopolises). Good luck finding Stormie-size armor good against that. Again - DL-44's are criminal's handguns, and E-11's are SMGs or small carbines for patrol duty.

As far as protection from fragmentation goes, it seems that Luke and Leia did fine in just their clothes against near misses, while in the docking bay scene much earlier, it appears that stormtroopers were killed by debris blown off the walls by Han Solo's pistol.

Heroes survive in spite of explosions all around = no protection against blasts necessary! Wee I lik dis logik.

Proof the Stormtroopers died? Thought not. And analysis of Stormie armor durability from the EU suggests they probably did not.

What I'm getting at is, an armored man doesn't seem to be any harder to kill than an unarmored man, and I feel this is not right, as I don't think anyone is going to dispute me on the fact that armor is in general supposed to protect. That is why the stress over a better suit. I believe I've already clarified what a soldier's life is worth, and so skimping on the price of armor is a fool's game, economically speaking, because it costs more to replace those killed than to buy better equipment. Furthermore, mass production, and then competition between companies to develop a better product for less, does tend to drive costs down, so it is economical to protect your ground soldiers.

And you have no data about the cost of protection or its feasible miniaturization. You have no proof it can be economized, lightened, or miniaturized from existing examples to be effective against observed small arms fire. You have no evidence, and no argument.

There is always room for improvement, and as I said earlier, what is economy to the soldier killed when the cheaper armor failed to stop the enemy's weapon?

When Stormtrooper literally pop-out of tubes ready-to-deploy, who knows if its actually cheaper? You're expecting this whole thing to model analogous to terrestrial examples and presuming your paradigm for SW combat. Your assumptions are flawed.

[wilfulton]

I do recall a few people on this forum preaching EU minimalism.

In my experience, men laying quietly on the ground after suffering extreme physical trauma are also beyond help. Injuries are not clean, as they like to show in hollywood. In real life, the victim is often subject to excrutiating pain, which he can describe to a buddy kneeling over him trying to administer first aid. That, or his struggle has ended.

The only "proof" I have that these men were killed is my personal observations of real people suffering real injuries. If you believe said stormtroopers were simply knocked unconscious, but lived to fight again another day, or retire and draw disability pensions from the empire/republic that they so gallantly served, fine. And if you believed they lived happily ever after to spend it in the SW equivalent of Hooters, then so much the better.

I think I've personally announced enough quick fixes to the system, be they feasible or just wishful thinking. Does anyone have any ideas as to what CAN be done?

[Ender]

*shrug* There is room for some improvement obviously; the stormie armor in Tales 22 was a bit different in the Vong era and Butler defended it by saying it was just moe evolution of the design. But the changes weren't that substantial - it was little things like the forarm guards tapering back and sticking out to cover the elbow, rahter then the seperate elbow piece the clones had or the exposed part the OT stormies had. Stuff like that.

Frankly, I'm not sure it can be improved for blaster resistance. As has been pointed out, we are talking double digit megajoules applied to an area maybe a couple of square centimeters, and that's assuming the tracer is represenative of bolt size. At a certain point even if you can stop the bolt from penetrating, the energy is going to do impulse damage, (boil off material at supersonic velocities and it really fucks things up; this is the same idea behind shooting down ICBMs) and the stormie is going to get the equivlent of being kicked by a mule applied right to his vital organs. And that's gonna get you the same result as getting shot.

Since we don't know much about the bodyglove, you could argue for improvements there. That's about it.