WoT meet Posleen

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2002-11-19 08:03pm

Right after Rands campaign against the Seanchen in The Path of Daggers, several Asha'man are accidentally thrown via a improporly woven gateway onto Earth during the events of When the Devil Dances. What happens and how much of a differance can they make?

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-19 08:53pm

Little to none. Unlike WoT armies the Posties are going to be carrying an assload of projectile weaponry.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-11-19 09:09pm

couldnt an asha'man weave air, tied off, and deflect bullets?

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-19 09:16pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:couldnt an asha'man weave air, tied off, and deflect bullets?

Yes. Not ot mention all the damage they couyld do with Earth and Fire weaves.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-11-19 09:34pm

quite. get a few dozen, and rolling rings of fire and earth really amuse things.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-19 10:13pm

Except that:

1.) Those bullets can strike at ranges far beyond what any bowman could do

2.) He's never run into bullets before, if he tries an air-shield meant to deflect arrows he's screwed

3.) Lasers

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2002-11-19 10:20pm

SylasGaunt wrote:Except that:

1.) Those bullets can strike at ranges far beyond what any bowman could do

2.) He's never run into bullets before, if he tries an air-shield meant to deflect arrows he's screwed

3.) Lasers

That assumes that they'll actually come out into the open. Or that they won't be shoved into a powersuit for protection.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-19 10:27pm

SylasGaunt wrote:Except that:

1.) Those bullets can strike at ranges far beyond what any bowman could do

2.) He's never run into bullets before, if he tries an air-shield meant to deflect arrows he's screwed

The air shields deflect solid things. Bullets ioncluded.

3.) Lasers

That could get interesting.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-19 11:22pm

verilon wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote:Except that:

The air shields deflect solid things. Bullets ioncluded.

They've never run into something as powerful as a posleen railgun or an HVM (or do you really think it can stop a projectile miving at .3c)

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-19 11:23pm

Alex Moon wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote:Except that:
That assumes that they'll actually come out into the open. Or that they won't be shoved into a powersuit for protection.

He needs to be in sight to use his abilities IIRC, and they can't just 'stuff him into a suit' (not that it'll matter against posleen heavy lasers or HVMs)

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-19 11:25pm

SylasGaunt wrote:
verilon wrote:The air shields deflect solid things. Bullets ioncluded.
They've never run into something as powerful as a posleen railgun or an HVM (or do you really think it can stop a projectile miving at .3c)

Yes, considering that it's a solid block of air.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-11-20 12:00am

If its a solid block of air, then it can be fragmented and reduced to air shrapnel if hit hard enough.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-11-20 12:03am

Well if it was persay a physical object...and this being magic and the manipulation effects therein...would be hard to say if such a thing would happen.

Logically yes...but then again Magic and Logic aren't really bedfellows.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-20 12:07am

consequences wrote:If its a solid block of air, then it can be fragmented and reduced to air shrapnel if hit hard enough.

Air cannot be reduced to air; it already IS air. Besides, using the power of many Asha'man, it would be viable to have a very strong forcefield. Albeit, the air would move, but it would not necessarily be destroyed.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2002-11-20 12:44am

SylasGaunt wrote:
Alex Moon wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote:Except that:
That assumes that they'll actually come out into the open. Or that they won't be shoved into a powersuit for protection.
He needs to be in sight to use his abilities IIRC, and they can't just 'stuff him into a suit' (not that it'll matter against posleen heavy lasers or HVMs)

Actually channellers don't need to have a line of sight to use their powers as we've seen numerous times in the books. Against the massive numbers of Posleen they could simply sit behind a hill and call down a buttload of lightning bolts and fireballs in the general area of the enemy and be assured they were doing damage. Second, they don't have to be toe to toe with the enemy. Sitting a mile or two behind the main battle would still afford them plenty of protection. Further more, since their powers can't be traced by God-Kings like snipers, they could sit on the flanks of a battle and pick off GKs all day while the rest of the army dealt with the normals.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-11-20 12:57am

Even so, at that moment, the Posleen have Humanity outnumbered by a shitload, the Asha'man would have to instantly grasp what was going on, position themselves at the main point of contention, and not die during the gratuitous nuking that occured during the novel.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-20 01:01am

verilon wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote:
verilon wrote:quote]

Yes, considering that it's a solid block of air.

Evidence please that an airshield will stop something moving at that kind of velocity.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-20 01:08am

SylasGaunt wrote:Evidence please that an airshield will stop something moving at that kind of velocity.

I dunno about at that velocity, but it is stated many times throughout the books that weaves of air can deflect solid objects.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-11-20 01:38am

Yes, but there is a more than signifigant difference between stopping arrows, and holding up against weapons that can take out an Abrams with a frontal hit.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-20 01:48am

consequences wrote:Yes, but there is a more than signifigant difference between stopping arrows, and holding up against weapons that can take out an Abrams with a frontal hit.

Prove it. It's a block of air. That can't be taken out, when there are enough men holding the weave, Besides, they can tie off the weave and let go of saidin easily, leaving the weave there.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-20 01:56am

verilon wrote:
consequences wrote:Yes, but there is a more than signifigant difference between stopping arrows, and holding up against weapons that can take out an Abrams with a frontal hit.
Prove it. It's a block of air. That can't be taken out, when there are enough men holding the weave, Besides, they can tie off the weave and let go of saidin easily, leaving the weave there.

Yes air is air. Just like depleted uranium is depleted uranium, and an HVM will go through an Abrams LONGWAYS. Now are you going to provide some evidence to back your assertion that a barrier that we've seen at best stop arrows is going to be stopping something moving thousands, if not millions of times faster?

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-11-20 03:09am

So several Asha'man, which really can't mean more than 20 at best, are supposed to be able to stop the continuous firepower of thousands of railguns, HVMs, plasma discharges, and laser beams? Much less the repeated Nuclear detonations encompassing the area? This without having seen any piece of high technology more than a few days beforehand? Energy transfer is still going to happen, and the concussive force from repeated impacts and detonations will transfer through , even if it was made from collapsed "Bullshitium," much less "solidified air."

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-20 03:15am

consequences wrote:So several Asha'man, which really can't mean more than 20 at best, are supposed to be able to stop the continuous firepower of thousands of railguns, HVMs, plasma discharges, and laser beams? Much less the repeated Nuclear detonations encompassing the area? This without having seen any piece of high technology more than a few days beforehand? Energy transfer is still going to happen, and the concussive force from repeated impacts and detonations will transfer through , even if it was made from collapsed "Bullshitium," much less "solidified air."

Hey, I'm not saying they'll win.....they'll hold off for a small amount of time, but like I said, they can tie off the weaves and let go of saidin or create new walls. Undoubtedly, they can also create "tubes" of air where they can redirect some of the firepower. And besides, who are you to say that a wall of Air can't hold it off? If, described literally as a wall, it can push Rand around (but not Lan, who is standing just a few feet away), then surely it can hold off something. Not to mention that they have plenty of men that specialize in Earth, who could easily destroy launchers and whatnot. Besides, if they were to implement angreal and sa'angreal, it would be even stronger!

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-11-20 03:18am

i'm saying that it doesn't seem likely that the Asha'man would put anywhere near the amount of effort into their walls of air until it was too late, having no experience in a Posleen combat environment.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-20 03:35am

consequences wrote:i'm saying that it doesn't seem likely that the Asha'man would put anywhere near the amount of effort into their walls of air until it was too late, having no experience in a Posleen combat environment.

True, it might not be *too* late, though. By the time they figured it out, though, they would have lost a vast majority of their men. Now, if we changed the scenario a bit, where each knew what the capabilities of the other was, the dynamics of the battle would be vastly changed.