Intent to kill and spells

[Rye]

Something just occurred to me while contemplating people that call themselves witches, some of them will quite honestly tell you that they can hex someone to death. Now, while this may not be the actual case, they still believe they are handling a lethal weapon and, I imagine, people have often tried to cast death spells with the earnest belief it will kill someone.

So, what are the legal ramifications of this, exactly? Though it may not actually work, they still believe they are lethally assaulting someone and continue to do it. Should they be put in prison or a mental home? Left alone since it's not an actual danger to themselves or others, much as other prayers or spells are left alone?

Would someone that said "my death magick will tear you asunder, mister president" or "my prayer is that God will annihilate you where you stand, and he will, mister president," be in as much doo-doo as someone that said "I want to kill you with my Desert Eagle, and I will, mister president"? Would they be in any shit at all, or is it a legitimate use of religious speech?

[Alyeska]

Bungled attempt at murder still count as murder. It would be interesting to see this go through court.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

"I want to kill you with my Desert Eagle, and I will, mister president"

FBI called out; subject arrested and tried for treason; Fox News runs it as a sidebar story of little note.

"my death magick will tear you asunder, mister president"

FBI called out; subject arrested and tried for treason; Fox News brands subject a terrorist witch IN BIG RED LETTERS and assumes role of judge, jury, and executioner in the Court of Public Opinion; subject eventually lynched by vigilantes after long torturous journey through the legal system; Fox News covers ass with billion-dollar lawyers.

"my prayer is that God will annihilate you where you stand, and he will, mister president,"

FBI NOT called out; Fox News decries any attempt at arresting or prosecuting subject for treason as 'government trampling on religious rights'.

[Durandal]

The rationale behind arresting someone for conspiracy to commit murder is that there was a chance of this person succeeding, hence making him a danger. I think it'd have a lot to do with just how a person went about this death hex thing.

Say the Secret Service responded to a threat on the president's life by busting into a home and found a bunch of weird witchcraft shit and a picture of the president. The person was trying to cast a death spell, but there's no way attempted murder charges would be filed. The person's just a run-of-the-mill lunatic.

Now say that, in addition to that witchcraft shit, there were detailed plans as to the president's motorcade's route through town, a schedule of his appointments, etc ... with the reasoning that the spell's effectiveness depended upon positioning and timing. Then conspiracy charges might be filed because the district attorney could argue that the person in question had both intent and means to make a genuine attempt on the president's life. In other words, the person in the first scenario was harmless. The person in the second scenario was potentially harmful.

[Kuroneko]

"my prayer is that God will annihilate you where you stand, and he will, mister president,"

FBI NOT called out; Fox News decries any attempt at arresting or prosecuting subject for treason as 'government trampling on religious rights'.

Most likely, but it is easy enough to defend legally in that the person does not claim to be the actor or cause behind the act. Expressing wishes for such an event does not legally consitute a death threat.

The rationale behind arresting someone for conspiracy to commit murder is that there was a chance of this person succeeding, hence making him a danger. I think it'd have a lot to do with just how a person went about this death hex thing.

Conspiracy to commit murder is a felony separate from threats to commit a crime, which are misdemeanors, except in the case of the president. Normally, death threats have to be credible to be actionable, so you are still correct, but I'm not certain of the presidential case. Does anyone have the exact wording of the law?

[Durandal]

Deleted Zor's posts at his request.

[Lord Zentei]

"my prayer is that God will annihilate you where you stand, and he will, mister president,"

FBI NOT called out; Fox News decries any attempt at arresting or prosecuting subject for treason as 'government trampling on religious rights'.

Most likely, but it is easy enough to defend legally in that the person does not claim to be the actor or cause behind the act. Expressing wishes for such an event does not legally consitute a death threat.

What of requests thar a third party kill someone?

[DPDarkPrimus]

You'd have to book people who say that they're going to pray for the deaths of people, too.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Maybe if you replace "hex" with "a kilo of plastique/a large calibre rifle/a 12" dildo", you'd get a more serious investigation into the threat. But as it stands, they are rather minor given that such spells don't do anything except in the minds of the idiots that throw them around thinking themselves a level 100 Black Mage.

[Lord Zentei]

You'd have to book people who say that they're going to pray for the deaths of people, too.

Well, I should have worded it thusly: "if you request that a third party kill someone can't you be booked under any circumstance?"

[Spyder]

They'd likely be let off on an insanity plea.

[Chmee]

They have the intent to harm, they are following a course they believe will result in harm, but they lack a REASONABLE belief that their actions will cause harm .....

They either aren't guilty because of that lack of reasonable belief, or they lack the mental capacity to form criminal intent (I lean toward the latter).

Anyway, the Service probably consults with Nancy Reagan's psychic for shielding against this sort of thing.

[Invictus ChiKen]

I'm a practicing Occultist myself. I always tell people if someone says there going to place spells on them sue for psychological harrasment.

The Lawsuit the ultimate money 'spell'. ^.^

[Durandal]

I'm a practicing Occultist myself. I always tell people if someone says there going to place spells on them sue for psychological harrasment.

Any lawyer worth his salt would argue that if the plaintiff is stupid enough to actually worry about some retard occultist placing a spell on him, then his mental state was already damaged prior to the threat of a hex, hence no significant damage has been done. Honestly, such a person would probably sue me for massive psychological trauma if I said, "Step on a crack and break your mother's back."

[Invictus ChiKen]

To clarify I mean things like sending me voodoo dolls of me, burning myself in effegee and other stuff of that like.

[AMX]

*looks up law*
Over here, you can't be punished if whatever you were trying to do was inherently impossible (unless, of course, you committed another crime in the process, but that's off-topic).
So... it depends on the belief of the court...

[Durandal]

To clarify I mean things like sending me voodoo dolls of me, burning myself in effegee and other stuff of that like.

That's harassment. Completely different.