All YECs are Dead

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-05-17 01:09am

Zero132132 wrote:I too would attempt to figure out what the hell was going on, but if such widescale death appeared purely on the basis of belief/faith, I have to wonder what's at all illogical about saying that it is perhaps the rapture that's been spoken of by christians. Honestly.. it isn't exactly an illogical conclusion.

Sure it is. Rapture means people ascend bodily into Heaven. This reduces them to a pile of dead goo. There's a quantifiable difference between the two, and the latter is really painful. Again, why the fuck should we beleive this is God taking his people up to heaven, and not Thor smashing his foes, or Hades collecting those most deserving an eternity of suffering?

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-05-17 01:30am

Actually...i think Zor said in the OP the process was basically painless and rather swift. But that makes it no less horrifying. I can only assume...by organic goo he means blood mixed with tissue that's been reduced to fluid somehow. The effect, i imagine, would be like watchinga wax figure melt. Which, considering the number of people dead, will smell like the armpit of a linebacker after a few hours baking in the sun...

I'd probably kill myself. I couldnt take it. I couldnt watch so many people, including several i know, die like that so horribly. I mean, i think it could deal with it if it were just vaporized from a nuke or shot or something...but to die that way...i just couldnt deal i'm not that emotionally strong to watch my whole family, two of my friends and my girlfreind, several of my neighbors including some i've known all my life just...melt.

If, and this is possible, i cant get the balls to off myself i'd probably try my best to round up as many of the orphans and left-behind and form some kind of united front, cause someone would try to make a power grab or land grab and i would prefer to have some unity when it happens. I cant imaginethe clean up, it'd be literal oceans of this stuff a couple feet deep covering large portions of the country and that's just America. The smell, filth, and general disgustingnes sof it would drive a lot of people insane i guess. Suicides would probably skyrocket, especially i think in the middle-east and America. Certainly whoever is left with a military of any kind would make a major move.

It would be truly apocalyptic, is my point.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-05-17 01:58am

SirNitram wrote:
Zero132132 wrote:I too would attempt to figure out what the hell was going on, but if such widescale death appeared purely on the basis of belief/faith, I have to wonder what's at all illogical about saying that it is perhaps the rapture that's been spoken of by christians. Honestly.. it isn't exactly an illogical conclusion.
Sure it is. Rapture means people ascend bodily into Heaven. This reduces them to a pile of dead goo. There's a quantifiable difference between the two, and the latter is really painful. Again, why the fuck should we beleive this is God taking his people up to heaven, and not Thor smashing his foes, or Hades collecting those most deserving an eternity of suffering?

It's like watching End of Evangelion! Exploding crucifix butter, hooraaah!

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-05-17 02:23am

I must pose a question just now. If much of the world's population simply disappeared, no goo or anything, basically what you'd expect if there was an actual rapture... would any of you believe anything at all of it? Would you even question whether the old myths could have something to them?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-05-17 11:43am

Zero132132 wrote:I must pose a question just now. If much of the world's population simply disappeared, no goo or anything, basically what you'd expect if there was an actual rapture... would any of you believe anything at all of it? Would you even question whether the old myths could have something to them?

No, I wouldn't. Because there's no reason to. Because they are not known to exist. Quite frankly, abduction by aliens is more beleivable; we've seen plenty of signs of extra-terrestrial life and we know space travel is possible. This is volumes more than invisible beards in the sky.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-05-17 04:59pm

Zero132132 wrote:I must pose a question just now. If much of the world's population simply disappeared, no goo or anything, basically what you'd expect if there was an actual rapture... would any of you believe anything at all of it? Would you even question whether the old myths could have something to them?

I would consider the Evil Alien hypothesis long before considering a mythology that is already demonstrably wrong on so many counts. Please try to think logically.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-05-17 06:31pm

I must admit, if reality appeared to be adhering to ancient myths, it would be more sensible to believe this then to claim aliens did it... honestly, it actually does seem that you've been battling religion so long that you may have become truly religiously anti-religious. If you met God, you would check yourself in. It is true that the myth is demonstratably wrong on many points, but many of these points are older then the revelation prophesies. However, since it seems that revelations is actually more a political critique of the times then anything else, I must say that such a situation is... probably impossible.

If nothing at all could make you believe, then it isn't I who's not thinking logically.

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2005-05-17 06:44pm

I would go get Zor and make him write

"I will not cause the collapse of civilisation." 100 times like B.Simpson.

But as many have stated, how would you work anything out about the victims? Not everyone who subscibes to YEC beliefs makes an issue of it, it's just something they believe.

Predator · Post by **Predator** » 2005-05-17 06:48pm

My conclusion would not be that these people were right, that there is a benevolent god, and that the judeo-christian god is it. The fact remains that the judeo-christian mythology is a tale of a genocidal maniac.

If I took these events to indicate the existence of the judeo-christian "god", I would not worship him. And I certainly wont believe that he's the all knowing, all loving creator of the universe - simply a malevolent being with a nature and with capabilities that cannot yet be explained, with the ability to manipulate people, various other interesting feats, maybe even destroy cities and so forth, who just took credit for the creation of the universe to impress his sheep.

If we go with the "believers melt" version of the scenario, there's even less reason to believe the judeo-christian god is responsible. It would make no sense for a being who seems so obsessed, biblically, with being worshipped and loved, to kill all his followers in such a horrible manner.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-05-17 06:48pm

You would still take not that there were no YECs left. I would personally take note that nobody was claiming that it was the rapture... that would be quite a sign that the religious zealots had been eliminated. But really, what would really get me to understanding who had been killed would be talking to the living. If I noticed that none of those left behind believed such silly things, then I would take it as a sign.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2005-05-17 06:51pm

Nephtys wrote:It's like watching End of Evangelion! Exploding crucifix butter, hooraaah!

GAAAH! Damn it, I haven't seen End of Eva!

Zero132132 wrote:I must admit, if reality appeared to be adhering to ancient myths, it would be more sensible to believe this then to claim aliens did it... honestly, it actually does seem that you've been battling religion so long that you may have become truly religiously anti-religious. If you met God, you would check yourself in. It is true that the myth is demonstratably wrong on many points, but many of these points are older then the revelation prophesies. However, since it seems that revelations is actually more a political critique of the times then anything else, I must say that such a situation is... probably impossible.

What you're missing is the point. Just because one or two points of that mythos line up with reality doesn't mean the rest does. Since you want us to take the mythos as a hypothesis, then by all means take it. Unfortunately, to work, the entire hypothesis must be consistent with reality. Many points of those old myths are not, which in turn condemns the entire hypothesis.

If nothing at all could make you believe, then it isn't I who's not thinking logically.

Are you trolling, Zero? Belief in such mythology is, in of itself, illogical in the context of an entire worldview.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-05-17 06:54pm

I do agree that belief in old myths is, by nature, illogical. I also think that if nothing would make you subscribe to an illogical belief, in no action or correlation to reality could, then there may be something wrong with your notions of logic. If nothing in the world could ever make you believe a myth, even if it was truly validated by observations in the real world, then I will still say this is illogical.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2005-05-17 07:00pm

fgalkin wrote:
Surlethe wrote:Being a YEC is a natural outgrowth of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is taking the bible (or qur'an, or whatever religious text) literally. It follows that YECs are going to be those who take those religious texts literally which state the earth was created in six days.
No, fundamentalists are those who wish to go to the "origins" of religion, abandining all "modern" developments (the last 1000 years or so).

All Muslims take toe Koran literally, but not all Muslims are fundamentalists.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

I stand corrected.

Oh, and you have a nice day, too!
-surlethe

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-05-17 07:10pm

Surlethe wrote:
Nephtys wrote:It's like watching End of Evangelion! Exploding crucifix butter, hooraaah!
GAAAH! Damn it, I haven't seen End of Eva!

Get on it, mister!

Zero132132 wrote:I do agree that belief in old myths is, by nature, illogical.

OK.

Zero132132 wrote:I also think that if nothing would make you subscribe to an illogical belief, in no action or correlation to reality could, then there may be something wrong with your notions of logic.

Uh, no. If nothing can make you beleive an illogical beleif, then your logic is sound. Beleiving in something illogical is never logical. This is a trivial observation.

Zero132132 wrote:If nothing in the world could ever make you believe a myth, even if it was truly validated by observations in the real world, then I will still say this is illogical.

If there were anything to validate a beleif, then beleiving it would not be illogical. People turning into goo is not a satisfactory validation of the Judaeo Christian myth, however. There are countless points where that myth fails, and nothing in it that speaks of millions of people turning into goo or disappearing. The alien explanation would be more logical since there are fewer things wrong with it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-05-17 07:15pm

Zero132132 wrote:I must admit, if reality appeared to be adhering to ancient myths, it would be more sensible to believe this then to claim aliens did it...

Listen you stupid fucktard, reality has already contradicted the Bible in so many ways that it is impossible for reality to obey the Bible. What part of this are you too goddamned stupid to understand?

honestly, it actually does seem that you've been battling religion so long that you may have become truly religiously anti-religious.

What does it mean to be "religiously anti-religious"? Are you saying that my statements are illogical? Then BACK THAT UP, ASSHOLE.

If nothing at all could make you believe, then it isn't I who's not thinking logically.

How can something make me believe in something that's already been disproven, moron? If there's something out there, it's not the Biblical God.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-05-17 07:33pm

Note: many of my comments were in referance to my own hypothetical question about if a rapture-like event occured, not about the goo question.

Darth Wong, I say that you may be religiously anti-religious simply because you said it would be more logical to believe that aleins did it if suddenly a good portion of the world's population disappeared. Saying aliens did anything here on earth doesn't make much sense. The distances and time required for any kind of alien life form to come here are just too much for me to really even consider. If they were rational enough to actually develope interstallar travel, then what rational purpose would it serve to eliminate a good portion of the global population? If they were smart enough to develope interstellar travel, then why would they concern themselves with coming here just to kidnap a ton of irrational fundies, when it must use up extreme amounts of energy? It just makes no sense. You'd be adding several unknowns, such as how they got here, who they were, what the fuck their motive was, and why they would do it based on religious beliefs. You act as if, in this situation, saying "God did it" would be a cop out, but it would make a good deal more sense then bloody aliens.

As for reality contradicting the bible.. that's likely because the bible is something of man. Many things were excluded from it, and many things were changed. I believe that God is an idea of man as well, but I have the ability to change my mind, which puts me above you on a rationality scale.

If you will maintain your same belief despite any evidence/event, then I must say to you that that sounds much like a religious fundamentalist to me. I'm not being unreasonable with my statements. I agree with you that there is no God, and that the bible is, at the very least, wrong on many points. I still don't think it's rational to maintain this lack of belief if ever there were good evidence to support the existance of a diety.

At the very least, could you believe in a God if there were sufficient evidence for it? If not, you're the moron.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-05-17 07:43pm

Well...just because they developed interstellar travel and it takes a lot of energy doesnt mean they wouldnt use it as an attack.

Taking realistically something like a hyper drive, if they CAN power such a thing at all, and get up to a like a couple thousand ly an hour...the energy would be enormous. To ever be able to DO that they must have some unimaginable (by our science) energy source like hypermatter or some kind of matter-energy conversion.

So it might not be a lot of energy to them. They might have reactors like miniature stars, in terms of power output, and that might be enough to make the jump.

Of course this is all 'soft' sci-fi stuff, and extremely unrealistic, but so is the whole idea any way so it makes sense.

Ok, i'm rambling...my point is thus: ANY race that can create an FTL drive probably has the energy sources to use it to get here with little effort i'd imagine. And if they COULD teleport billions of people away instantly, they'd obviously be way more advanced and have a grasp of physics that would be starkly incomprehencible to the human mind.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-17 07:49pm

Darth Wong, I say that you may be religiously anti-religious simply because you said it would be more logical to believe that aleins did it if suddenly a good portion of the world's population disappeared. Saying aliens did anything here on earth doesn't make much sense. The distances and time required for any kind of alien life form to come here are just too much for me to really even consider. If they were rational enough to actually develope interstallar travel, then what rational purpose would it serve to eliminate a good portion of the global population? If they were smart enough to develope interstellar travel, then why would they concern themselves with coming here just to kidnap a ton of irrational fundies, when it must use up extreme amounts of energy? It just makes no sense. You'd be adding several unknowns, such as how they got here, who they were, what the fuck their motive was, and why they would do it based on religious beliefs. You act as if, in this situation, saying "God did it" would be a cop out, but it would make a good deal more sense then bloody aliens.

What the hell? Even if I disregard the fact that this arguement has little to do with the arguement at hand, this is still ridiculous. Your saying that an act of God is more likely to make something like this happen than aliens? And you say that you reach this conclusion logically? The very existance of human life indicates that alien life is possible, and thus the possiblity of this alien 'rapture' is at least possible, if incredibly unlikely. No such logic can be reached to justify an act of God, since there is no evidence other than human faith that any such entity exists. You cant apply this kind of reasoning.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-05-17 07:50pm

Actually, I may be choosing to give up this debate. The point I'm trying to argue isn't that such an event should be construed as a judeo-christian prophesy being fulfilled, however, it is sensible to take this into consideration. I simply don't believe it's rational to deny the existance of a deity even if evidence supports it. Currently, this isn't the case. Sorry for any mixups...

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2005-05-17 07:51pm

Darth Wong, I say that you may be religiously anti-religious simply because you said it would be more logical to believe that aleins did it if suddenly a good portion of the world's population disappeared. Saying aliens did anything here on earth doesn't make much sense.

I think you re being unfair here. I would cut it out =D Wong does have a point. The Bible is nonsensical in it's touch with reality. Aliens at least have a greater chance of existing than does something that's been wrong so many times and is mere fiction-work. It's literature. As you said, it's a creation of man. There's really no reason to assume one religion's dogma. Something else could have happened. You ought to look at it from a positivist point of view first.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-05-17 07:53pm

Zero132132 wrote:Note: many of my comments were in referance to my own hypothetical question about if a rapture-like event occured, not about the goo question.

Darth Wong, I say that you may be religiously anti-religious simply because you said it would be more logical to believe that aleins did it if suddenly a good portion of the world's population disappeared. Saying aliens did anything here on earth doesn't make much sense. The distances and time required for any kind of alien life form to come here are just too much for me to really even consider. If they were rational enough to actually develope interstallar travel, then what rational purpose would it serve to eliminate a good portion of the global population? If they were smart enough to develope interstellar travel, then why would they concern themselves with coming here just to kidnap a ton of irrational fundies, when it must use up extreme amounts of energy? It just makes no sense. You'd be adding several unknowns, such as how they got here, who they were, what the fuck their motive was, and why they would do it based on religious beliefs. You act as if, in this situation, saying "God did it" would be a cop out, but it would make a good deal more sense then bloody aliens.

Don't you realize the same questions could be asked of this God? Why the fuck does he care about, to paraphrase Douglas Adams, a bunch of semi-evolved apes living on an tiny blue speck of a planet orbiting an insignificant yellow sun in an unfashionable arm of the galaxy?[/quote]

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-05-17 07:57pm

Pure Sabacc wrote: What the hell? Even if I disregard the fact that this arguement has little to do with the arguement at hand, this is still ridiculous. Your saying that an act of God is more likely to make something like this happen than aliens? And you say that you reach this conclusion logically? The very existance of human life indicates that alien life is possible, and thus the possiblity of this alien 'rapture' is at least possible, if incredibly unlikely. No such logic can be reached to justify an act of God, since there is no evidence other than human faith that any such entity exists. You cant apply this kind of reasoning.

I'm saying that such an event could be seen as evidence. It wouldn't be a matter of faith, if there was no discernable physical mechanism for it. As for my comment that it's more likely to be a God then aliens... this holds true, for me. I do agree that it is quite likely there are other life forms out there, if only because we're here, but I don't necessarily agree that there's any similar chance at all that they're anywhere nearby. I would have some doubt if you claimed that they might even be in this galaxy. The circumstances for life here are obviously still quite rare, as they don't yet seem to be duplicated elsewhere in our own solar system at all. If there is alien life, I doubt it's exactly going to be in the neighborhood.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-05-17 08:01pm

Zero132132 wrote:Darth Wong, I say that you may be religiously anti-religious simply because you said it would be more logical to believe that aleins did it if suddenly a good portion of the world's population disappeared.

And yet you haven't a single logical argument to back up your moronic claim that it is more reasonable to believe that an ancient document would suddenly become true despite its many falsified claims if this happened, you idiot.

Saying aliens did anything here on earth doesn't make much sense. The distances and time required for any kind of alien life form to come here are just too much for me to really even consider.

And you feel this is more unlikely than a falsified document suddenly becoming true?

If they were rational enough to actually develope interstallar travel, then what rational purpose would it serve to eliminate a good portion of the global population? If they were smart enough to develope interstellar travel, then why would they concern themselves with coming here just to kidnap a ton of irrational fundies, when it must use up extreme amounts of energy? It just makes no sense.

It makes far more sense than thinking that a document with talking snakes, a big hardened shell above the atmosphere, and a flat Earth would suddenly become true if this happened, fucktard. How many fucking times do I have to try and pound this into your leaden skull?

You'd be adding several unknowns, such as how they got here, who they were, what the fuck their motive was, and why they would do it based on religious beliefs. You act as if, in this situation, saying "God did it" would be a cop out, but it would make a good deal more sense then bloody aliens.

Even an unknown is better than a known falsehood, shithead.

As for reality contradicting the bible.. that's likely because the bible is something of man.

And this contradicts the fact that it is false ... how?

At the very least, could you believe in a God if there were sufficient evidence for it? If not, you're the moron.

Evidence for what? The Biblical God? Impossible; the Bible has been handily disproven in many ways. Some kind of uber-powerful being like Q? Sure, I could believe in that if I ran into him. What's your point? You are honestly so goddamned stupid that you don't realize why anything is a better hypothesis than something which has already been shown to be horribly false?

Predator · Post by **Predator** » 2005-05-17 08:03pm

Zero132132 wrote: Saying aliens did anything here on earth doesn't make much sense. The distances and time required for any kind of alien life form to come here are just too much for me to really even consider.

As opposed to an all powerful being capable of creating the world in a matter of days? Puh-lease!

If they were rational enough to actually develope interstallar travel, then what rational purpose would it serve to eliminate a good portion of the global population?

Perhaps they view the fundamentalist religious strain of mankind a longterm threat? Perhaps they want to do us a favour, and assist our evolution by weeding out a good portion of those who easily fall prey to magical beliefs and indoctrination? Who cares, whatever motivation they might have would be a heck of a lot easier to believe than that there is a magical being with far more ridiculous methods and motives.

You'd be adding several unknowns, such as how they got here, who they were, what the fuck their motive was, and why they would do it based on religious beliefs. You act as if, in this situation, saying "God did it" would be a cop out, but it would make a good deal more sense then bloody aliens.

He's adding unknowns? Get some perspective here! You're the one who thinks interstellar travel is less believable than a big magical being who can create universes and all living things.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-05-17 08:19pm

Wong, I did not mean to say that saying that the judeo-christian God is more viable then aliens, although I don't necessarily agree that the diety, as described, is an impossibility. I still believe that you'd have to be a bit insane (same thing as religious, basically) to maintain a belief despite a miraculous event with no discovered physical mechanism. If this crap weren't all hypothetical, would you really sit there, and say that it was aliens who had developed faster then light travel (as magically as a diety any day...), and come here just to take away religious fundamentalists, if no physical mechanism could be found. I mean, it makes no sense to just sit back, not investigate, and claim God did it, but seriously... would aliens be your back up? That's at least as fucking magical as a diety. And quit calling me a moron. That seems to be your general term for anybody that disagrees with you.

If nothing at all could make you believe, then it is still you who act irrationally. If any man would maintain any belief or lack of belief despite all evidence, then he's insane.