Ep3 review thread SPOILERS

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-19 02:07am

If the image matches the one in the spoiler thread, then it ain´t the DS, so calm the fuck down.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-05-19 02:08am

PackMule wrote:Fantastic! It's been about 6 hours now since I saw it, and all I want to do is go back and watch it again.

Spoilers btw:Question: During the theatre scene when Palpatine is talking to Anakin about dark side powers, he mentioned that the Sith have the power to control midichlorians and can use this control to create life. In Ep1, Anakin's mum specifically says to Qui-Gon that there was no father. Is it possible Anakin was "created" by Palpatine in an effort to eventually develop him into a superstrong sith lord? Is this already established? Did I miss the ball somewhere?

No, it's not possible. The very idea is the same sort of bullshit that started the Darth Sidious/Palpatine are two different people "theory".

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-19 02:11am

So, more people are seeing a possible Sith-connection to Anakin´s conception. If the scene is ambigious enough, then it´s a possiblity.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-19 02:13am

VT-16 wrote:So, more people are seeing a possible Sith-connection to Anakin´s conception. If the scene is ambigious enough, then it´s a possiblity.

That Palpatine "created" Anakin was originally part of a draft script. It was cut entirely. The hint is still there, for SW fans to debate endlessly

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-19 02:20am

The hint is still there, for SW fans to debate endlessly

Exactly, subtle instead of in-your-face.

My argument to naysayers is that that one little line makes no sense in the seduction of Anakin, unless to hint at a "parentage". All Palpatine needed to mention was the power to save people from death. Nothing else. Which makes it all the more curious that Palpatine mentions "creating life" as well...

Of course, it´s just speculation.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2005-05-19 02:33am

One thing jumped out at me during the opening scroll

"... there were heroes on both sides."

Interesting - the films were been set up so that the Seperatists are nothing more than droids, Sith, and lackeys. Who were these heroic Seperatists?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-19 02:34am

Read the comics.

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2005-05-19 03:09am

Okay, just got home from seeing the movie.
One word can sum up the second half:OMFGWTFBBQLOLROFL
I'll leave you to figure out what that means.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-05-19 03:34am

Not much I can add to Vympel's excellent review. The only weak scene I found was the one when Anakin and Padme are on the balcony and Padme just looks fucking weird. The make-up department just failed at that point. The dialogue they exchange here is somewhat clumsy. I think it's alright, because I can picture two people actually saying this, but it doesn't come off great.

Otherwise, fucking awesome.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-05-19 03:37am

I just saw it. My thoughts:

The Good:

Hayden Christensen gets the most improved actor award. Aside from a couple scenes where Lucas should have maybe pulled him back a little bit, he was generally spot-on throughout the entire movie (except for some of the love scenes, but crap dialogue is crap dialogue). I really didn't want him to turn, I just didn't. He was mistreated by the Jedi order and he had a right to be angry, and he tried to do the right thing - but it just wasn't enough.
The Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship - established here better than anywhere in the second film, as has been previously stated. The fact that Obi-Wan had finally achieved respect for his apprentice and was proud of him built up and made the ending all the more tragic. I mean, the last time they saw each other before Anakin turned, they wished each other well. They were brothers. The scene with Obi-Wan and Anakin on the shore of the lava lake was beautifully tragic.
Palpatine. God, what a slimy bastard. I love how he didn't start in with the hardcore Dark Side rhetoric like he did with Luke...he eases Anakin in. Achieve a greater understanding of the Force, Anakin. Save the ones you love with your new powers, Anakin. Bring peace to the Galaxy. Good...only a point of view, held by the Jedi. This nuanced approach explains why Anakin so easily turned...Palpatine was able to appeal to his inherently good nature to bring him to the Dark Side. And the birth of the Empire, in the Senate...damn, he made that scene work.
Order 66. Made me teary-eyed. Obi-Wan seemed to have a decent relationship with his clonetroopers.
The fact that we see Anakin after being given his Sith title and he's not really evil yet. Darth Vader didn't get his title and just become the vile monster he was in the OT. He wanted to help his wife, he agonized over his decision, he had a sincere desire to bring peace to the Galaxy and end the war, he shed tears. Even during the duel with Obi-Wan...he still wasn't completely gone. The first thing that he asked about after being revived from being about as close to death as possible was...his wife.
The fights, obviously. Nothing to nitpick over, perfect use of John Williams' score...and we got to hear Duel of the Fates one last time! The action in this film was fantastic...absolutely nothing to nitpick over here. Even the scene where Obi-Wan and Anakin are gliding across the lava, which I was worried about, worked pretty well.
The scene by the lava lake. My words cannot do it justice, and I will leave it at that.
The ending on Tatooine. We hear the Star Wars coda for the last time, Owen and Beru get Luke, and we see the binary suns for the last time...bravo, GL.
R2D2 humor. Genuinely funny!
The actress who plays Aayla Secura is FUCKING HOT.

The Bad

"War!" Maybe the worst opening scroll ever. People were laughing. Not a good way to start things.
The love scenes...yech. Some of them were not bad at all, sometimes they even worked, but some of them brought me back to the worst parts of AoTC. As good as this movie is, this is just a failure of these movies that we have to accept at this point. These shoulds shouldn't be painful to sit through.
Qui-Gon Jinn - what a cheat! I've been waiting for the secret of the blue ghosts for years...and instead of showing it to us, Lucas tells it to us. How effective would Obi-Wan's appearance to Luke on Hoth have been if it hadn't been shown, but later described in dialogue by Luke? It felt lame and tacked-on, when it should have been a serious, developed plot point.

That's all I have to say for right now. I'll agree with Vympel and give it a 4 out of 5. It would have been as good as at least ANH and maybe even ESB...but the flaws are there, and although the good outweighs the bad, they are glaring flaws.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2005-05-19 03:45am

McC wrote:Not much I can add to Vympel's excellent review. The only weak scene I found was the one when Anakin and Padme are on the balcony and Padme just looks fucking weird. The make-up department just failed at that point.

Hell yes, here we are waiting to see a 30 foot tall gorgoeous Natalie Portman face and we get that. Anakin says something about "Oh you're so beautiful" and i instantly thought "Uh, no, she's not." That crappy dress didn't do much for it either.

Butterbean569 · Post by **Butterbean569** » 2005-05-19 04:42am

I too don't have too much to add to the great reviews people have given so far. I'll emphasize a few points, and add some that I haven't seen anyone make yet.

* Was it just me, or did evil Anakin kinda look like what Luke may have looked like if he turned evil? I think I may have been hallucinating, but during much of the final battle scene with Obi-Wan I kept getting flashes of Luke. I've been seeing similarities since the trailers came out too...hmm...musta been the hair?

* The most haunting scene of this movie, and any Star Wars movie, was the when Anakin entered the Jedi Temple and was greeted by that youngling. The kid was so cute...so innocent. I think of myself as a pretty tough-skinned guy. I don't shy away from violent movies at all, and have seen some pretty nasty stuff (Faces of Death headshots...stuff like that). I thought I was at least somewhat desensitized. But damn that scene seriously made me feel sick. Definatly worth the PG-13 rating. If you take little kids to the theatre, hopefully they won't have bad dreams of Anakin coming to kill them

*I MISSED TARKIN! I was trying so hard to grasp every detail of the DS, I totally spaced him. DOH!

*I thought the background space battles were totally awesome. I already can't wait for the DVD just so I can watch that scene in slow motion and see every little detail. It went very fast and definatly was sensory overload...I think it will be much better in later viewings (although I do agree it was too short...I guess ROTJ will always have the best space battle in my book).

*Finally, as some people have pointed out, the scene where Vader first talks is...just...bad. Everything up to that point with Vader is beautiful, and it just gets ruined. I was *totally* in the zone. I was emotionally tied into this movie like no other movie before. I felt the pain of Padme...Anakin...Kenobi...it was amazing. Vader's mask came down, and we saw what his world would look like for the coming decades. Then, the mask clasps and the breathing starts. He comes up from the table...his breathing eerily audible...oh my God Vader is born!

And then *bam* he cries about Padme. This in of itself wasn't totally terrible, and it's understandable for his character. I think it was just the odd mix of Vader's voice and what he was saying that threw me off. What WAS totally terrible was the "nooooooo". That took me right out of the zone. I went from teary-eyed to trying not to laugh. Not cool. Really the only blunder of the ENTIRE movie in my opinion. But, to me, it was so bad. Even if it's not as bad the next time I see it (tomorrow

) and the time after that, it will scar this movie for me forever.

^^^Ok I think I took that a bit overboard...it's not like I lost a family member or anything. But I'm on a Star Wars high right now, and emotions are raging

Overall: GREAT MOVIE! I'm not going to rank it among the other SW movies, and my other favorite movies, quite yet. I'm still way too emotionally unstable for that. Right now part of me says it's my favorite of all time. Another part says "Ben...settle down, go to bed, and watch it again tomorrow." So I think I"ll do that

Enjoy it if you have not seen it yet, I doubt you'll be disappointed! Best $8.75 I've ever spent. Well...except for that package of condoms....hmm....tied for the best $8.75 I've ever spent.

Rommie2006 · Post by **Rommie2006** » 2005-05-19 04:43am

Erm I made 2 more observations about ROTS and how it relates to ROTJ

1. Anakin turned to the dark side out of love. He wanted to save the woman he loved. Fast foward to OT, in particular ROTJ. He turned back to the light out of love. He wanted to save his son, who was like what remained of Padme, what remained of his family. Then it struck me - Palpatine you overconfident idiot! Isnt it so obvious now? If I were Palps I would expect Vader to betray me to save his family...

2. At the end of ROTS, Padme is dead. Had anakin truely turned to the dark side? I thought his primary aim was to save his wife, and now that he failed, what made him stayed on with old Palps? Power? Nobody/noplace to turn to? And why didn't Vader turn on Palps and seize control of the Empire (apparently he had that intention all along). Was it because of his injuries he sustained, that he is no match for Palps now?

Rommie2006 · Post by **Rommie2006** » 2005-05-19 04:46am

Butterbean569 wrote:*Finally, as some people have pointed out, the scene where Vader first talks is...just...bad. Everything up to that point with Vader is beautiful, and it just gets ruined. I was *totally* in the zone. I was emotionally tied into this movie like no other movie before. I felt the pain of Padme...Anakin...Kenobi...it was amazing. Vader's mask came down, and we saw what his world would look like for the coming decades. Then, the mask clasps and the breathing starts. He comes up from the table...his breathing eerily audible...oh my God Vader is born!

And then *bam* he cries about Padme. This in of itself wasn't totally terrible, and it's understandable for his character. I think it was just the odd mix of Vader's voice and what he was saying that threw me off. What WAS totally terrible was the "nooooooo". That took me right out of the zone. I went from teary-eyed to trying not to laugh. Not cool. Really the only blunder of the ENTIRE movie in my opinion. But, to me, it was so bad. Even if it's not as bad the next time I see it (tomorrow ) and the time after that, it will scar this movie for me forever.

Finally someone who agrees with me. Vader's speech was really anti-climatic.

Silver Jedi · Post by **Silver Jedi** » 2005-05-19 05:27am

I thought the whole part where he force chokes her was a pretty good indication that saving his wife had taken a bakc seat, that the seductiveness of the power he had gained was taking him over.
Heh, it just occured to me that the first person Darth Vader ever force chokes is Padme

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2005-05-19 05:30am

The movie rocked in so many ways. It was teh seks. When I got to the theater, there was already like fifteen people waiting there. Eventually that number ballooned into almost a hundred. They (theater management) broke everyone up into groups, based on which auditorium number was on your ticket. I was the only six for a long while until these two other guys showed up. The local news sent a reporter and cameraman out to interview some of the people waiting and take from shots. The cameraman even filmed these two guys fighting each other with lightsabers. (they were actually pretty damn good with those things too!)

Anyways, they let the six's and another group in first at around 9:45-10pm. Still only me and those two guys. Eventually though, the number grew to the point that near midnight, the auditorium was packed. Then one of the managers came in, told everyone to turn off their cellphones and not to film the movie, or else they'd get thrown out. The general reply was a "fuck you", after he left.

The audience seemed to get into the movie and really enjoyed it. That, or they just like applauding at the end of movies.

As I said before, the movie rocked. It did have a few 'meh' scenes, mostly the Anakin/Padme romance scenes (not sex scenes). Lucas needs to stop trying to write those things.

I loved the bit where Yoda climbs up to Chewie's shoulders. The others seemed to like it aswell. It mostly got a "Aww, thats cute" response.

Vader's reaction to learning that Padme was dead was kind of lame. I half expected him to shout "Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!"

Tarkin had only a cameo appearance. I think only the Warsies would've have figured who he was.

The scene with Vader in the council chamber with the Younglings was just, wow. That honestly caught me off guard.

I had read somewhere that Aayla Secura was going to survive Ep3 and possibly be in the SW tv series. Well, that rumor was busted. I doubt Secura survived being shot in the back over and over again by like eight clonetroopers.

Question: Did the force lightning really deform Palpatine's face, or did he always look like that, and was just hiding it with the force?

The thing that bugged me about the DS at the end was that they didn't appear to be at Maw.

I'd give this movie a 9.5/10. Go and see it, if you haven't.

Randomness: Aya's Episode III gear: A courier type bag (like the kind you'd carry a laptop in) containing Star Wars: Heir to the Empire, Theodore Rex and a notebook + ink pen. Also a Gameboy SP with Final Fantasy Origins and FFT Advanced.

In related news: I walked home after the movie ended. Took me an hour. Let me just say, my city is creepy at night when the streets and stores are all but deserted.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2005-05-19 05:49am

Question: Did the force lightning really deform Palpatine's face, or did he always look like that, and was just hiding it with the force?

Since Dooku has used lightning several times without transforming into a hissing teletubbie from hell, i'd say it was just his releasing of his hatred at last.

The thing that bugged me about the DS at the end was that they didn't appear to be at Maw.

I assumed it was actually the unfinished Separatist version, 'discovered' by the Empire and used as the basis for future versions.

Tarkin had only a cameo appearance. I think only the Warsies would've have figured who he was.

Incidentally, i noticed in the credits that he was played by Wayne Pygram aka Scorpius from Farscape.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-19 06:26am

"Omg Padme wasn't teh sexy!!!!!"

Name one woman who looks all fabulous and all perfect wearing tons fo makeup right before bed. Did you not notice that the outfit she was in basically amounted to her pajamas (not to mention that it kept in line with the Naboo fetish for weird dresses, my opinion).

Then there is the fact that Anakin is looking at his wife, pregnant with his child(ren). Im not a father, and I cannot begin to relate to what other fathers could feel but I could only guess that looking at a woman carrying your child smiling back at you. Doesn't matter how she looks.

Vader's dialogue was great, as for the knighting, the way I see it is that the Sith are an Order and thus have their own way of doing things, I guess Palpatine was doing what he did for Maul and Tyrannus.

I noticed a chemistry between Anakin and Palpatine, even when they were Sith, that just seemed good. Palpatine's appearance being passed off as a deformity from Mace Windus attack was nice. I can't say enough about Order 66, simply amazing.

I was floored by this movie as no other movie has done in the theater. Every one of my favorite movie experiences seems to happen through VHS and DVD. This is the first time I actually felt like I had my money's worth.

Anyone noticed that the attack on Kashyyk, the Docks was just like the level in Battlegrounds? Y''all probly did but I thought it was great.

My Nitpicks:
Yoda and Obi Wan began referring to Palps as "The Emperor" a little too quickly, I'd have had them keep calling him Palpatine.

The 'Qui Gonn Training' thing. Needed more to it I am in whole agreement.

Space Battle was lacking sentiment echoed. Agreed, less 'Buzz droids' and more of the stuff that shows off Anakin's piloting.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-19 06:28am

Winston Blake wrote: Since Dooku has used lightning several times without transforming into a hissing teletubbie from hell, i'd say it was just his releasing of his hatred at last.

One could argue though that Yoda did not do to Dooku what Mace Windu was doing to Palpatine when the lightning was brought out.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-05-19 06:43am

Splitting the movie up into rough thirds, the first third of it was okay. It suffers from many of the flaws of the previous two films, but to a lesser degree. The space battle is glossed over, except for the amazing opening shot. The second third of the film suffers from the flaws of the previous two only in spots, but when they do come out here they're pretty god-damn apparent. This also has some amazing acting in spots, and the critical claims that the love scenes between Portman and Christensen suck are only defendable in points--in others they were actually pretty good. The final third of the movie is the best forty-five minutes you're ever going to see anywhere. As brilliant as it is dark and visceral, the final third of the film exudes what it is to be Star Wars. Somehow the pace doesn't feel rushed, even though a lot happens. The Duel is everything I was hoping it would be.

9.5

Flashes of sheer brilliance, but also some mediocrity. Overall, an excellent movie and a satisfying curtain call for the Star Wars series.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-05-19 06:55am

Well, I had a bunch of questions that I was going to post, but I only remember two...

Okay, Anakin's immaculate conception was never explained ALTHOUGH Palpatine mentioned that he knew of a Sith who could create life with mitochloreans (sp). Uhhh... Was the idea that he (Palp) created Anakin via this power and was just holding out on what he knows, or was this just something that was never explained?

Ok, here's one I don't get. The way Palpatine threw down with Yoda makes me think that he could have smoked Mace Windu. Now, was Palpatine basically holding out to set up that situation with Annakin or was Palp really almost killed during that scene?

Palpatine was one evil bastard. He's my favorite!

BTW, my only complaint was the actress who played Padme. That was some BAD acting...

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-19 07:01am

About Palpatine's midichlorians quote. Doesn't he say it in a way that implies that he uses the force to control the midichlorians? Which could mean that the midis arent responsible for force powers (but that they do have a meaning)

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-19 07:02am

Was the idea that he (Palp) created Anakin via this power and was just holding out on what he knows, or was this just something that was never explained?

That will be debated till the end of time.

Ok, here's one I don't get. The way Palpatine threw down with Yoda makes me think that he could have smoked Mace Windu. Now, was Palpatine basically holding out to set up that situation with Annakin or was Palp really almost killed during that scene?

Probably just faking it. He likes to use himself as bait at crucial events (Battle of Coruscant, Battle of Endor etc.).

Which could mean that the midis arent responsible for force powers (but that they do have a meaning)

They are explained in TPM as "messengers of the Force", telling people it´s will. This has often been glossed over by fans. And people looking for a cheap joke. "Midichlorians are teh Force LOL COPOUT!!!!111"

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-05-19 07:03am

Darth Fanboy wrote:About Palpatine's midichlorians quote. Doesn't he say it in a way that implies that he uses the force to control the midichlorians? Which could mean that the midis arent responsible for force powers (but that they do have a meaning)

It doesn't really say anything either way.

If you assume that midichlorians are responsible for Force powers, manipulating them could easily accomplish some end.

If they are not responsible for Force powers, but instead have some relationship to creating the Force, then manipulating them could produce similar ends.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2005-05-19 07:05am

Superman wrote:Ok, here's one I don't get. The way Palpatine threw down with Yoda makes me think that he could have smoked Mace Windu. Now, was Palpatine basically holding out to set up that situation with Annakin or was Palp really almost killed during that scene?

All an act; he knew from his precognition that Anakin would come and rigged the deck, so to speak, to work in his favor. It's like in ROTJ when we see him using his cane in front of his advisors and the troops, but in private, he ditches it; all for apperances.