Ep3 review thread SPOILERS

[Joe]

No, I thought quite a few of the Anakin/Padme scenes were pretty bad...including the scene on Mustafar. The thing is, though, Hayden Christensen wasn't really the problem...Natalie Portman had all the really cringe-inducing lines. As much as I liked the movie - and I really did (fuck the haters), it was a big problem. I mean, that should have been a great scene.

[Vympel]

Yeah, I was saying to my friends that Natalie Portman's lines were pretty crap, she was easily the weakest out of the cast and HC was far and away better. In terms of their scenes:

- their first meeting- nothing objectionable
- the hair combing/ bad makeup scene- UGH!
- the "I want more" scene- nothing objectionable ... I think ... it's not the "hold me like you did by the lake on Naboo" scene, is it?
- if the Naboo lake line is a different scene ... UGH!
- The post-purge scene, nothing objectionable IIRC
- "You're breaking my heart!" UGH!

[CaptJodan]

One of the things that bothered me along with several areas of dialogue which were sup-par was the radical change in Padme's overall demenor. Granted, I don't know what I was expecting, but I know I wasn't expecting her to be a character which didn't do much in the movie.

By this I mean that in Ep 1 and 2, we see Padme as this strong woman, willing to fight for what she believes in. She picks up a blaster, and knows how to use it. Her voice carries weight and strength in political sessions and previous as queen.

In this movie, we find her in the corner crying most of the time, and nearly absent from any political decisions. She didn't really have the balls to do anything, either by objecting to giving Palpy more executive power, or trying to actively find the truth between the Jedi and Palpy motives, etc. In previous movies, she was always one of action, but in this one she just kind of sat back and let everyone come to her and report what was going on, until the final scenes where she finally goes after Anakin, and is somehow surprised that she missed a staff meeting on what was really going on. I just felt her character wasn't portrayed as strong as she was previously.

[The Original Nex]

It's odd because she really is a good actress. I suppose even good actors/actresses can't do much with shit lines.

[Skylon]

First of all, I thought the worst of the romantic dialogue was when Padme was telling Anakin she was pregnant. "You're breaking my heart" was bad, but somehow, a bit of the rest of the dialogue seemed to top that.

On another note, little problem methinks.

In Ep II Count Dooku notes that Nute Gunray went to him for help after he was betrayed by Darth Sidious. It was cool because Sidious was still screwing Gunray, only now he didn't know it now.

Now in Episode III Gunray is taking orders from Sidious once again.

Did I miss something?

The best compliment I can give this movie though is that it really convinced me of Obi-Wan's rationale for telling Luke that Vader killed his father. I really believed Obi-Wan had to convince himself that the Anakin he knew was dead. That "point of view" angle bugged me for years. Now I buy it.

[Vympel]

One of the things that bothered me along with several areas of dialogue which were sup-par was the radical change in Padme's overall demenor. Granted, I don't know what I was expecting, but I know I wasn't expecting her to be a character which didn't do much in the movie.

By this I mean that in Ep 1 and 2, we see Padme as this strong woman, willing to fight for what she believes in. She picks up a blaster, and knows how to use it. Her voice carries weight and strength in political sessions and previous as queen.

In this movie, we find her in the corner crying most of the time, and nearly absent from any political decisions. She didn't really have the balls to do anything, either by objecting to giving Palpy more executive power, or trying to actively find the truth between the Jedi and Palpy motives, etc. In previous movies, she was always one of action, but in this one she just kind of sat back and let everyone come to her and report what was going on, until the final scenes where she finally goes after Anakin, and is somehow surprised that she missed a staff meeting on what was really going on. I just felt her character wasn't portrayed as strong as she was previously.

Yeah, the multiple scenes of her joining the petition of 2,000, plotting the beginning of the Rebel Alliance with Bail Organa and Mon Mothma, etc, were all cut.

[The Wookiee]

- "You're breaking my heart!" UGH!

I liked that scene. Although I wasn't too keen on Obi-Wan's "Superman" pose.

I just felt her character wasn't portrayed as strong as she was previously.

Er...perhaps because she was pregnant...*shrug*

[Vympel]

In Ep II Count Dooku notes that Nute Gunray went to him for help after he was betrayed by Darth Sidious. It was cool because Sidious was still screwing Gunray, only now he didn't know it now.

Now in Episode III Gunray is taking orders from Sidious once again.

Did I miss something?

Dooku's a liar, that's all. Just like Yoda said. The Separatists were in on it from the start- but I bet you they, just like Grievous, had no idea that Palpatine = Sidious.

The best compliment I can give this movie though is that it really convinced me of Obi-Wan's rationale for telling Luke that Vader killed his father. I really believed Obi-Wan had to convince himself that the Anakin he knew was dead. That "point of view" angle bugged me for years. Now I buy it.

I don't. Obi-Wan's a self serving liar, and always has been, and fucked any chance of Padme turning him back by sneaking on her ship and standing there while they were talking, convincing Anakin she was a liar.

[Superman]

I wasn't too keen on Obi-Wan's "Superman" pose.

I noticed that too. That very thing stood out to me as well. Kinda silly.

Eh, no movie is perfect, but as far as Star Wars goes, this was good.

[weemadando]

OK - Darth Plagueis was most definately Sideous' master.

Just watch Palpatine's face when he reaches the part of the story about the apprentice killing him one night. Motherfucker smirks so hard that it would be impossible to say that it wasn't him that capped a certain figure from "Sith legend".

[Trytostaydead]

My spoiler ridden review!

Score: 7/10

From the very opening scene after the scroll, you knew this was a different Star Wars. Instead of a ventral view, it gives us a dorsal view of a destroyer floating over Coruscant, and you really get a feel that you're floating as you hear the beating of the soundtrack, "boom, boom, boom." The opening space battle scene was very detailed, but we saw just too little of it, and things were too brightly colored and contrasted for my taste.

Dooku's scene likewise was just too damn short. Christopher Lee, in his short appearance pulled off some magnificent gravity with his acting, and his fight scene was spectacular, he did it with STYLE.

Okay, the only real complaint I had with this movie was Padme. Damn, I know it's not Portman's ability to act, but the lines given to her were just hackneyed at best. Everytime the movie built up some real momentum, Anakin and Padme would just get together and the movie would crash (this is why my score is a 7/10). You could tell the actors were really trying to pull it off, but Lucas thinks he's Shakespeare or something, and a LOT LESS in words could have done A LOT MORE.

Palpatine steals and makes this movie. He is just SO damn awesome. If he treated me like he did to Anakin, I'd slaughter some Jedi. You get a real sense of alternating between grandfather, mentor, and politician. He's the contrast to the Jedi council who are cold and distant and encourage Anakin to be as well. He espouses passion, especially passion for Padme.

Now here's the thing about Palpatine, and forgive me if I'm jumping scenes. But it seems, honest to God, he really cared for Anakin. While Palpatine betrayed and killed his Master, he proudly proclaims to Yoda that Anakin will be more powerful than them all. And when Palpatine goes to rescue Anakin, not only does he go himself, but he personally leads his clone troopers and there's an AMAZINGLY gentle scene with Palpatine caressing Anakin's head.

The fight scene with Palpatine is just beyond words. One of the best scenes in the movie. Palpatine's fighting technique is definitely Sith, while the Jedi use sweeping slashes, Palpatine fights with the point. On that note, with the fight with Mace Windu as to who was better. It was hard to say. In my opinion it seemed as if Palpatine was really feigning weakness, and as soon as Anakin came to his side, Palpatine unleashed a force lightning that just bitch slapped Mace really badly. Palpatine kept saying, "I'm weak, weak.." then he unleashes an attack that kills Mace that seems to be more intense than what he was using to defend himself.

I also love how when Palpatine first became disfigured and talked to Anakin, his voice was POWERFUL, and like this was from the movie Exorcist, it seemed like he was talking in two voices, it was awesome.

The Order 66 scenes were good, really good. But there just wasn't enough emotional impact in them. I didn't really care good Jedis were being killed. Just that it looked cool while happening.

Obiwan's fight with Grievous was eh. Really, it was just eh. Grievous himself was just eh as best as a villain. Sometimes he looked just TOO CG.

Yoda and Palpatine were just bitchin' together. Though Palpatine became just really too crazy it seemed. Like he was too giddy when he was fighting Yoda. But it was pretty cool to see, how Palpatine was just throwing the Senate pods all around and laughing like a madman.

The Anakin and Obiwan fight had its up and down. The "surfing" scene was done pretty well. But my big complaint was the lack of emotion. The moves and effects were cool, but I think the actors were too focused on their moves to deliver the emotion behind it, especially McGregor. It could've been spectacular! But he just showed a little crying at the end, "You were my brother! I loved you!"

[Superman]

OK - Darth Plagueis was most definately Sideous' master.

Just watch Palpatine's face when he reaches the part of the story about the apprentice killing him one night. Motherfucker smirks so hard that it would be impossible to say that it wasn't him that capped a certain figure from "Sith legend".

Right, which also leads me to believe that he COULD HAVE CREATED Anakin. I guess it can't be proven, but it's a solid theory.

[weemadando]

It's odd because she really is a good actress. I suppose even good actors/actresses can't do much with shit lines.

Watch AotC with commentary on. When Lucas starts talking about how cool it is to be able to take different actors in different cuts and splice them into the same scene digitally - I wanted to lynch him right fucking there.

As a friend said, what you need is a big burly bastard in a black suit, wearing sunglasses, standing next to Lucas with a truncheon or something and everytime he goes to do something that involves character interaction, he gets whupped...

[CaptJodan]

Er...perhaps because she was pregnant...*shrug*

Possibly a good reason not to get herself into too many scrapes, but not so great for not trying to figure out what the fuck is REALLY going on. As far as we can tell, she doesn't even bother to turn on the Republic/Galactic Empire's version of ISN. With her political connections, I should think that she has a few senators out there who would help to tell her what's really going on without resorting to hearsay from those directly invovled. She had two conflicting stories from two people she trusted deeply. Clearly something's afoot, and I would think getting the facts straight would be her first and best course of action. She was smarter than that in the previous movies. I guess it's those hormones.

As an off this topic comment, I didn't really mind the "Breaking my Heart" part directly, but some of the lines previous to that seemed to get me groaning. I thought she turned on the water works pretty well there. I don't know, maybe I'll find it cliche later.

I tended to cringe a lot when, after almost every report she got from either Obi or Anakin that she stood there with a "I can't believe it" line.

[weemadando]

Right, which also leads me to believe that he COULD HAVE CREATED Anakin. I guess it can't be proven, but it's a solid theory.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that Palpatine did create Anakin and controlled/manufactured every single event in his life. Kudos to that there Sith Lord for patience, planning and having the balls to go with that kind of plan.

[Skylon]

In Ep II Count Dooku notes that Nute Gunray went to him for help after he was betrayed by Darth Sidious. It was cool because Sidious was still screwing Gunray, only now he didn't know it now.

Now in Episode III Gunray is taking orders from Sidious once again.

Did I miss something?

Dooku's a liar, that's all. Just like Yoda said. The Separatists were in on it from the start- but I bet you they, just like Grievous, had no idea that Palpatine = Sidious.

I guess now that is simply another of Dooku's lies. Shame. Because I thought the irony was delicious, that Gunray went to Dooku for help and was still getting used by Palpetine without even knowing it. But a lie by Dooku is the only way I can justify this discrepancy.

Also, I never stated or suggested that the Separatists had any idea Palpetine = Sidious.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that Palpatine did create Anakin and controlled/manufactured every single event in his life. Kudos to that there Sith Lord for patience, planning and having the balls to go with that kind of plan.

Even if it failed, he still had the entire Republic and Jedi Council acting out his own script. He may have almost lost his apprentice who would've been a great asset being the Chosen One. But hell, he'd have still had a whole galaxy at his command.

[Crossroads Inc.]

As a friend said, what you need is a big burly bastard in a black suit, wearing sunglasses, standing next to Lucas with a truncheon or something and everytime he goes to do something that involves character interaction, he gets whupped...

I love you so very very much... ((dreams of being guy with Truncheon)) "Bad Lucus! Step away from the dialouge!!!"

[fgalkin]

The coldness of Vader, not this "I'm going to throw a temper tantrum" stuff.

Did you forget about the massacre of the Separatist leaders or the Temple slaughter? Those were very cold.

Now, that was good. The other stuff, not so much.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[The Wookiee]

I don't. Obi-Wan's a self serving liar, and always has been, and fucked any chance of Padme turning him back by sneaking on her ship and standing there while they were talking, convincing Anakin she was a liar.

Anakin fucked himself with his "Rule the Galaxy" speech. He was the one being deceptive; Obi-Wan was trying to protect Padme from him.

[The Wookiee]

As a friend said, what you need is a big burly bastard in a black suit, wearing sunglasses, standing next to Lucas with a truncheon or something and everytime he goes to do something that involves character interaction, he gets whupped...

I love you so very very much... ((dreams of being guy with Truncheon)) "Bad Lucus! Step away from the dialouge!!!"

As I read it he hired a dialogue coach this time around.

[Darth Wong]

My reactions:

1. I believe that Darth Plagius created Anakin through the Force, and was eventually planning to replace his apprentice with him. His apprentice somehow got wind of this and decided to end this little scheme. After terminating his master, Palpatine did not know where this manufactured child was located, so this remained a mystery to him until a Force-sensitive boy with a mysterious background was discovered by the Jedi on Tatooine. At that point, he decided to watch his career with great interest.
2. The opening battle was not a let-down. However, I did not read the novel beforehand, so I was not expecting the giganto-battle from the novel. Rebecca read it, and she said that the battle took up the first third of the book and was greatly pared down for the movie, so this is presumably why Vympel felt let-down by it. I went in with no expectations, so I thought it was awesome.
3. Technical details will have to wait for more viewings. I try not to watch a movie for technical stuff on first viewing; I'm trying to enjoy it and follow the story.
4. Camouflage clonetroopers looked really cool. By the way, their mere presence substantiates the longstanding idea that despite Palpatine's boasting for Luke's benefit, he did not put particular effort into having a top-notch garrison on Endor, because they didn't even bother using camo troopers there despite the forest environment.
5. According to Rebecca, the novel indicated that Windu was the only Jedi (including Yoda) who could have actually defeated Palpatine. The reason was that he had developed the ability to use an enemy's Dark side attacks against him. This also tracks with the line from Anakin in AOTC: "As wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu". Yoda may be the wizened sage, but Windu is clearly the muscle of the Jedi Order. I don't know why everyone keeps saying that Yoda must be much more powerful than Windu; there is not a shred of canon evidence to support that claim as far as I know. And the idea that Palpatine deliberately allowed all of this to happen (including the reflection of his own attack that obviously injured him as indicated by the heavy deformation of his face) really sounds like people are reaching like hell to exaggerate Palpatine's control of the situation. Besides, Rebecca said so, therefore it must be true.
6. As a result of what I believe to be true as stated in the previous entry, I suggest that the in the end, the fate of the galaxy really did hang on the few seconds in which Anakin made his choice between Windu and Palpatine. It was no idle demonstration set up by Palpatine; it was a very real dilemma in which Anakin held the future in his hand. He made the wrong choice (as he did so often in this film) which is what makes the film into something of a Greek tragedy. He was torn by conflicting loyalties and could not make a clear decision. instead of killing Windu or allowing Windu to kill Palpatine, he disabled Windu; a middle choice. Did he realize that Palpatine would immediately kill him afterwards, thus making Anakin an accomplice to the murder of a fellow Jedi Knight? I doubt it; he seemed shocked, and it seemed to me that he acted on instinct and emotion, not reason. And as a result, he fell and the galaxy fell with him.
7. The most poignant thing about the film for me was not what we saw, but what we did not see: the life that Anakin would have lived, if he had only made better choices. The tantalizingly close vision of an idyllic family life on Naboo with Padme, raising his two children and knowing that he was the hero who saved the Republic. A vision that he threw away by trying too hard to achieve it, in what was literally a few seconds of confusion and indecision.
8. His fall to the Dark Side seemed a bit too easy once Windu died, but in retrospect, it makes sense. By making himself an accomplice to the killing of Windu, he had crossed a line from which he did not believe it was possible to return. And Palpatine, no longer fearing for his life, could apply his full Dark Side mind-influencing abilities to Anakin.
9. I didn't like the "NOOOOOOO" scene. I would have preferred it if he fell to his knees and said nothing. You would know that inside his armour, he is weeping.
10. I didn't have a problem with any of the Anakin/Padme romance dialogue in the movie. It's not as bad as the stuff we heard in AOTC, and in fact, it now sounds authentically like some of the cheesy things that real (as opposed to carefully script-written Hollywood) young couples say to each other. I'm sure glad no one ever recorded the sappy things I said to Rebecca in the early days.
11. The battle scenes are something that will probably require a more careful look when the DVD comes out. In the movie the battles are never really the centrepiece of the action; they are merely used as backdrops for the machinations of the central villains and heroes.
12. R2-D2 rocks. 'Nuff said.
13. Even without any careful analysis, you can tell right away that the blockade runner looks wrong. That's really a damned shame; I was hoping that it would be one of those things where you have to carefully analyze it to pick out the flaws, but no, it just struck me right off the bat as looking wrong.
14. If (or when) this film is released on IMAX, I have to watch it on the IMAX screen for the opening battle alone.
15. The guy on the starwars.com website who said that the opening battle takes place 60 miles up was talking out of his ass. This is obviously way more than 60 miles up.
16. Interestingly, the Invisible Hand's cockpit windows are unscathed by the re-entry.
17. Too bad Obi-Wan considers blasters to be "uncivilized", because he's really good with them; no doubt thanks to the Force guiding his hand, his first shot went cleanly between Grievous' breast-plates. A Jedi Knight wielding a blaster and a Gungan-style hand-held personal shield would be an absolute killing machine. Of course, Jedi are already killing machines, but that setup strikes me as even more lethal. You would need heavy weapons to take him down.
18. On some level, Palpatine actually had a point about the Jedi. Mace Windu said that Palpatine was "under arrest", but he obviously had no intention of handing him over to the court system and giving him due process (see his later dialogue when he said that Palpatine controls the Senate and the courts, so he would have to kill him now). Windu clearly intended to decide for himself who should lead the Republic; what was he planning to arrest Palpatine for? Did he have any evidence of Palpatine doing anything whatsoever? He didn't have a shred, except for Anakin telling him that Palpatine knew how to use the Dark Side of the Force. Was he going to arrest him for using the Dark Side of the Force? The Jedi were arrogant; they were the nominal leaders of the military and clearly felt that they were in a position to override the will of the Senate (and by extension, the will of the people) if their code instructed them to.
19. Follow-up on previous point: a modern policeman, when confronted with someone telling him that the President of the United States was up to no good, would probably try to launch an investigation to gather more evidence before presenting it publicly. It seems rather doubtful that his very first reaction would be to march into the Oval Office and try to kill him. Palpatine was evil, but the Jedi were just as arrogant as he claimed; if it were not for the truth of his accusations, Anakin might not have decided as he did.

Anyway, those are my first reactions.

[Superman]

Here's another question though...

If Dooku was Palp's apprentice, why didn't he say anything when Palpatine ordered Anakin to kill him? Was he just too shocked?

[fgalkin]

The coldness of Vader, not this "I'm going to throw a temper tantrum" stuff.

I'm sorry, but you haven't been watching the same movies. Firstly, Sith *Are* angry. That's where they get their strength from. As for this coldness of Vader distortion- watch as Vader strangles Antilles on Tantive IV. Did he sound calm and collected then to you? How about when he was lecturing Leia after her capture? Or when he was beating the crap out of Luke in the last part of the Cloud City duel? Vader can be both, and Anakin showed both, both before and during the duel. His reaction at hearing of Padme's death is to be expected, and anyone who thinks he should be cold is just being absurd.

There is a gap of great magnitude between the Vader of the OT and the Vader of ROTS, mostly because the OT Vader did not have angst.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Darth Wong]

There is a gap of great magnitude between the Vader of the OT and the Vader of ROTS, mostly because the OT Vader did not have angst.

The OT Vader is not a young man any more. I would expect dramatic changes after 20 years as a crippled Sith Lord cyborg with every one of his boyhood dreams destroyed by his own hand.