fgalkin wrote:Considering that the Padme/Anakin subplot took up what seemed like a third or more of the movie, yeah, I have a gripe with them. They fucked up the pacing of the movie and they took up time that could be spent on better stuff, like the birth of the Rebellion. Hell, they could have extended ther battle of Kashyyk. There were Wookiees fighting Droids, yet there were no arms ripped off! WTF?
The entire Padme/Anakin subplot is considerably larger and more important than the "romance dialogue" parts I was talking about. Don't change the subject.
Since pretty much every Padme/Anakin scence contained at least one cringeworthy line, I do believe it is relevant. Plus, remeber that my original review complained about all Padme/Anakin stuff, not just the dialogue. Hell, that subplot was one of the biggest mistakes of the trilogy (along with Jar Jar Binks and the entire TPM movie).
fgalkin wrote:Since pretty much every Padme/Anakin scence contained at least one cringeworthy line, I do believe it is relevant.
When "cringeworthy" means "realistic but not entertaining" according to you, I don't see why that is an important criticism. Oh no, every scene contains at least one line that I didn't find every entertaining even if it was plausible!
Plus, remeber that my original review complained about all Padme/Anakin stuff, not just the dialogue. Hell, that subplot was one of the biggest mistakes of the trilogy (along with Jar Jar Binks and the entire TPM movie).
In other words, you're basically saying that you want to create an entirely different primary motivation for Anakin's fall?
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
fgalkin wrote:Considering that the Padme/Anakin subplot took up what seemed like a third or more of the movie, yeah, I have a gripe with them. They fucked up the pacing of the movie and they took up time that could be spent on better stuff, like the birth of the Rebellion. Hell, they could have extended ther battle of Kashyyk. There were Wookiees fighting Droids, yet there were no arms ripped off! WTF?
The entire Padme/Anakin subplot is considerably larger and more important than the "romance dialogue" parts I was talking about. Don't change the subject.
Since pretty much every Padme/Anakin scence contained at least one cringeworthy line, I do believe it is relevant. Plus, remeber that my original review complained about all Padme/Anakin stuff, not just the dialogue. Hell, that subplot was one of the biggest mistakes of the trilogy (along with Jar Jar Binks and the entire TPM movie).
Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Its not a subplot, it is the plot! Without the romance between them, Anakin would likely not have fallen to the dark side, and the entire story would have been different (IE wouldnt make any sense contiuity wise.) If you got rid of that, you essentially be siding with that "Anakin is not Vader!" lunatic.
Anakin & Padme. I can sorta see fgalkin & my GF's viewpoint on how it just seems wrong, but when I think about it it's not that bad nor surprising. Let's face it, Anakin is short a few marbles and given the way he grew up I doubt he knows much about normal human interaction let alone relationships, same thing with Padme except she has a full deck more or less. As for why she's not leading from the front and taking action, she's pregnant for fuck's sake.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
Fgalkin seems to be basically saying that he thinks the Padme character shouldn't exist at all. In other words, he wants to rewrite the entire prequel trilogy from the ground up. Even if this is true, I don't see how it's much of a meaningful criticism of this particular movie. If he feels that way, he shouldn't even bother viewing or discussing this film at all.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
aerius wrote:Anakin & Padme. I can sorta see fgalkin & my GF's viewpoint on how it just seems wrong, but when I think about it it's not that bad nor surprising. Let's face it, Anakin is short a few marbles and given the way he grew up I doubt he knows much about normal human interaction let alone relationships, same thing with Padme except she has a full deck more or less. As for why she's not leading from the front and taking action, she's pregnant for fuck's sake.
This is the first Padme in the three prequel films that actually acts like a girl instead of a guy with tits.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Instead of making a new thread, I figure I'll plop it right here. Some thoughts to go by. My brother told me this after RotS was over this afternoon. In the time span of ANH being released, and RotS opening day fall on very significant days for us. ANH was released when he first entered elementery school. Same school I went to, and subsequent my nephew went to. Today was his last day, and my brother stated he may never again set foot in that school. So, when the first Star Wars comes out, is when we first start going to our particular school, and the day the last Star Wars comes out, is the last day we have anything to do with it. Weird.
Were you born with out a sense of humor or did you lose it in a tragic whoppy cushion accident? -Stormbringer
"We are well and truly forked." -Mace Windu Shatterpoint
"Either way KJA is now Dune's problem. Why can't he stop tormenting me and start writting fucking Star Trek books." -Lord Pounder
If you remove Padmé then you've sunk the series since there is absolutely no reason for Vader to arise and for us to even give a hoot about Anakin anyway. Character's need vulnerabilities and reasons for drive. It sounds like some see Padmé as a McGuffin when really she drives the whole damn Anakin to Vader story.
Darth Wong wrote:
The entire Padme/Anakin subplot is considerably larger and more important than the "romance dialogue" parts I was talking about. Don't change the subject.
Since pretty much every Padme/Anakin scence contained at least one cringeworthy line, I do believe it is relevant. Plus, remeber that my original review complained about all Padme/Anakin stuff, not just the dialogue. Hell, that subplot was one of the biggest mistakes of the trilogy (along with Jar Jar Binks and the entire TPM movie).
Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Its not a subplot, it is the plot! Without the romance between them, Anakin would likely not have fallen to the dark side, and the entire story would have been different (IE wouldnt make any sense contiuity wise.) If you got rid of that, you essentially be siding with that "Anakin is not Vader!" lunatic.
No, this is the plot is this: Anakin falls in love with a woman, sees that she will die in childbirth, joins the dark side to stop it. There, that's the whole plot, summarized in one sentence. That Lucas has chosen to drag it out and use it as a tool for exposition of Anakin's character is not a crucial part of the story.
Pure Sabacc wrote:Its not a subplot, it is the plot! Without the romance between them, Anakin would likely not have fallen to the dark side, and the entire story would have been different (IE wouldnt make any sense contiuity wise.) If you got rid of that, you essentially be siding with that "Anakin is not Vader!" lunatic.
No, this is the plot is this: Anakin falls in love with a woman, sees that she will die in childbirth, joins the dark side to stop it. There, that's the whole plot, summarized in one sentence. That Lucas has chosen to drag it out and use it as a tool for exposition of Anakin's character is not a crucial part of the story.
And your description of the plot somehow works if you remove the woman?
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
No, this is the plot is this: Anakin falls in love with a woman, sees that she will die in childbirth, joins the dark side to stop it. There, that's the whole plot, summarized in one sentence. That Lucas has chosen to drag it out and use it as a tool for exposition of Anakin's character is not a crucial part of the story.
Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
And how would one justify this sacrifice without romantic scenes? Would it have been better if Anakin slept with a hooker, got her pregnant, invisioned her dying, and then turned with absolutly no real emotional attachment?
Darth Wong wrote:Fgalkin seems to be basically saying that he thinks the Padme character shouldn't exist at all. In other words, he wants to rewrite the entire prequel trilogy from the ground up. Even if this is true, I don't see how it's much of a meaningful criticism of this particular movie. If he feels that way, he shouldn't even bother viewing or discussing this film at all.
No, I'm not saying that she shouldn't exist. I'm saying that the Anakin/Padme romance should not have been a tool for the exposition of Anakin's character. Nor did it have to involve Padme falling in love with a friggin 9 year old.
No, this is the plot is this: Anakin falls in love with a woman, sees that she will die in childbirth, joins the dark side to stop it. There, that's the whole plot, summarized in one sentence. That Lucas has chosen to drag it out and use it as a tool for exposition of Anakin's character is not a crucial part of the story.
Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
And how would one justify this sacrifice without romantic scenes? Would it have been better if Anakin slept with a hooker, got her pregnant, invisioned her dying, and then turned with absolutly no real emotional attachment?
That's also not what I'm saying (even though that would have made him a rather nasty person from the very beginning).
Allow me to give you an example of what I'm trying to say here. Take AOTC. You could have an "I love you scene." Now, we know that they love each other. The plot may then continue (with Padme being on Geonisis and all), but all the "OMG! I killed the sandpeople!" character stuff would be shown by other means.
Your entire Jedi Academy Series has been obliterated by Episode III's
closing scenes with the Death Star under construction 20 years before
ANH, and without the Maw in the background!
The Death Star Was built At Despayra not the Maw
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
Your entire Jedi Academy Series has been obliterated by Episode III's
closing scenes with the Death Star under construction 20 years before
ANH, and without the Maw in the background!
The Death Star Was built At Despayra not the Maw
I believe he refers to the DS prototype, although I believe it is entirely likely there were more than one of those.
I had heard there was going to be a scene with the prototype tested on an asteroid or other target, but evidently that was canned if it even existed at all.
What can I say that hasn't already been said? Not much, so I have a question. Why don't Yoda and Obi-Wan fight Palpatine together? Obi-Wan could've placed a tracking device on Padme's ship, tracked her to Mustafar, and learned of Anakin's current location without angering him (when he sees Obi-Wan). Anakin would not have Force choked Padme and she would've survived. No doubt Obi-Wan was worried about Padme, but defeating Palpatine was the greater objective that would've ended the war between the Republic and the Jedi. Is the reason for this explained in the novel?
Minor dislikes:
- high pitched voices of Super Battle Droids
- I did not read the novel or the script so I was under the impression that Anakin fought Mace lightsabre to lightsabre, cuts off his hand, Palpatine hits Mace with Force lightning, and pushes him out the window
- Mace's screams when he is hit by Force lightning
- Order 66 was not as "glorious" and "emotional" as I had imagined
- Tantive IV not drawn/scaled correctly
Favorite line that I may not have remembered correctly:
"Master Anakin, there are too many. What are we to do?"
*lightsabre ignites*
Minor dislikes:
- high pitched voices of Super Battle Droids
- I did not read the novel or the script so I was under the impression that Anakin fought Mace lightsabre to lightsabre, cuts off his hand, Palpatine hits Mace with Force lightning, and pushes him out the window
- Mace's screams when he is hit by Force lightning
- Order 66 was not as "glorious" and "emotional" as I had imagined
- Tantive IV not drawn/scaled correctly
1.I agree completely. At least R2 tears them apart.
2. I dont understand what your saying, thats what actually happens.
3. He may be a BMF, but with level off power behinfd that blast, it would have been bad if he didnt scream.
4. I loved the Order 66 scene.
5. I agree with this.
The ICS has an entire page devoted to the Utapaun P-38, yet we don't even see one - I was anticipating a good space battle or at least skirmish with them involved.
Loved the movie. Loved the mythology. Did anyone else notice the parallels to Oedipus Rex? All Anakin wanted to do was prevent Padme' from dieing and all he does is end up bringing about her demise. Joesph Campbell would be proud.
I like how Lucas keeps useing reoccuring themes. The final scene, with Owen and Beru, accepting Luke as they watch a binary sunset was the perfect way to end the movie. Absolutly perfect!
Okay, I wish that a lot of the sappy romance subplot was rewritten;
because when you get to the kind of relationship Anakin and Amidala
have by Episode III; they wouldn't be speaking in the kind of florid
prose that sounds like a bad shakespeare movie:
Take a look at ESB:
LEIA: I love you!
HAN: I know.
and BWAM in he goes into the carbon freezing chamber.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Darth Wong wrote:Fgalkin seems to be basically saying that he thinks the Padme character shouldn't exist at all. In other words, he wants to rewrite the entire prequel trilogy from the ground up. Even if this is true, I don't see how it's much of a meaningful criticism of this particular movie. If he feels that way, he shouldn't even bother viewing or discussing this film at all.
No, I'm not saying that she shouldn't exist. I'm saying that the Anakin/Padme romance should not have been a tool for the exposition of Anakin's character.
Why the fuck not? And don't give me one of those "copied from the critics" lines about wooden dialogue or bad acting; you are criticizing the entire idea, not just the execution.
Nor did it have to involve Padme falling in love with a friggin 9 year old.
Perhaps if you actually watched the films, you would know that this does not happen. She falls in love with him when he is a young Jedi, not a 9 year old.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
MKSheppard wrote:Okay, I wish that a lot of the sappy romance subplot was rewritten;
because when you get to the kind of relationship Anakin and Amidala
have by Episode III; they wouldn't be speaking in the kind of florid
prose that sounds like a bad shakespeare movie:
Take a look at ESB:
LEIA: I love you!
HAN: I know.
and BWAM in he goes into the carbon freezing chamber.
Han Solo was a badass rogue though. He had a heart of gold, but he wasn't going to look right with anything but the basic emotion lines coming out of his mouth.
2. I dont understand what your saying, thats what actually happens.
I remember something different. Anakin walks in to the room as Mace is using his lightsabre to absorb/deflect the Force lightning back at Palpatine. Dialog is exchanged between the three of them, Palpatine fakes weakness and stops using Force lightning. Mace raises his sabre and as he thrusts it toward Palpatine, Anakin screams "Nooo" and chops Mace's hand off. Palpatine then hits Mace with Force lightning and pushes him out the window.
I was expecting Mace and Anakin to duel before Mace loses his hand. Not just a "cheap" chop. Oh well.
If Dooku was Palp's apprentice, why didn't he say anything when Palpatine ordered Anakin to kill him? Was he just too shocked?
Christopher Lee was so good that Dooku didn't have to say anything. His wide-eyed, stunned expression of betrayal and terror spoke volumes more than any amount of dialogue could. IMO, at least.
