Purpose of Obi-Wan reversing recall signal (non-SoD PoV)

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-19 02:22pm

From a non-SoD point of view, what was the purpose, plotwise, of Obi-Wan changing the Jedi Temple's broadcast signal to one that told surviving Jedi to run and hide?

If the signal reversal was never written in (or they tried and failed to alter the signal), it would've very nicely tied up the reason why all the Jedi die, without which it would be logical to assume that some of them on outlying worlds might have survived.
Or are there supposed to be survivors who will be hunted down and killed before ANH begins?

Edit: Hrrmm... could this have something to do with the planned TV series? >.<

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-19 02:23pm

Some jedi survived, such as Qu Rahn. This expains them.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-19 02:27pm

I kinda got the impression that (taking only the movies into account), Lucas was very adamant that Obi-Wan and Yoda were the only surviving Jedi by ANH.
Obi-Wan and Yoda state that fact explicitly in the OT, although the EU could attribute that to their ignorance of the existance of other survivors.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-19 02:36pm

Actually, Obi-Wan stated he was "once a Jedi" in ANH, and that the order was all but extinct.

In addition, I believe Lucas said in an interview that some Jedi might have survived into the OT, but the story didn´t concern them. It´s like the wizards in LOTR, you only hear what happened to two out of the five.

All in all, there´s nothing official to clearly indicate that Luke was literally the last Jedi alive, only that he was the last active Jedi.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-19 02:39pm

VT-16 wrote:Actually, Obi-Wan stated he was "once a Jedi" in ANH, and that the order was all but extinct.

In addition, I believe Lucas said in an interview that some Jedi might have survived into the OT, but the story didn´t concern them. It´s like the wizards in LOTR, you only hear what happened to two out of the five.

Three. Don't forget Radagast. And there are indications that the five known Istari aren't the only ones, but are more of a Jedi Council.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-19 02:40pm

Ah, shows how much I know.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-19 02:45pm

Yoda does mention that Luke is the last.. I'm fairly certain of this, although I can't quote dialogue atm.

I suppose it's possible to interpret that what Yoda meant was last active Jedi, or that Yoda was simply wrong.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-19 02:46pm

He was the last Yoda could be certain of. Remember, Yoda can only hope others escaped.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-05-19 02:59pm

NecronLord wrote:He was the last Yoda could be certain of. Remember, Yoda can only hope others escaped.

It could also be a deliberate exaggeration on Yoda's part. If there are still Jedi who can come to the Rebellion's aid, then if Luke fails there is still a possibility of victory. But with Luke thinking that he's the only hope then he has somewhat more incentive to succeed and there is no tiny little voice in the back of his head saying, "You don't have to go through all this. Someone else can take up the slack for you."

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2005-05-19 02:59pm

I envision many roleplayers running campaigns set after ROTS but before ANH about Jedis in hiding. Hell, there could even be secret academies training more Jedi throughout the OT. This is a big revelation.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-05-19 03:03pm

NecronLord wrote:
VT-16 wrote:Actually, Obi-Wan stated he was "once a Jedi" in ANH, and that the order was all but extinct.

In addition, I believe Lucas said in an interview that some Jedi might have survived into the OT, but the story didn´t concern them. It´s like the wizards in LOTR, you only hear what happened to two out of the five.

Three. Don't forget Radagast. And there are indications that the five known Istari aren't the only ones, but are more of a Jedi Council.

VT specifically said you only hear what happened to two out of five. Although you meet Radagast, his eventual fate is not discussed in the books.

Anyway, getting away from the nitpick and back on topic, any surviving Jedi in the OT might be like any surviving Jedi in KOTOR 2. They may still be Force users, but, as Atton put it, "they switched off the lightsabers long ago."

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-19 03:04pm

The Spartan wrote:If there are still Jedi who can come to the Rebellion's aid, then if Luke fails there is still a possibility of victory. But with Luke thinking that he's the only hope then he has somewhat more incentive to succeed and there is no tiny little voice in the back of his head saying, "You don't have to go through all this. Someone else can take up the slack for you."

That sounds like a plausible explanation for why Yoda said what he did, but it's a good explanation as to why Lucas wanted you (the viewer) to feel when Luke went to face the Sith, alone.
My memory may be jumped, but I may have read about GL saying this somewhere at some point in time.

Nevertheless, I'm interested to see what (and who) this upcoming series will focus on

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-19 06:16pm

Other Jedi were not drawn to Coruscant by the Beacon, but I would not find it hard to believe that afterwards Darth Vader hunts down whoever is left, killing most of them.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-05-19 06:23pm

The RPG had a whole branch of Imperial Intelligence that was concerned with hunting down and killing any surviving Jedi. Some of them were force trained, which of course gave Jedi PCs force using enemies to fight and kept the game interesting for them.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2005-05-19 06:43pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I envision many roleplayers running campaigns set after ROTS but before ANH about Jedis in hiding. Hell, there could even be secret academies training more Jedi throughout the OT. This is a big revelation.

I am actually doing exactly that in a modified d20(heavily modified) game. Basically my player characters will be sneaking younglings out the back door during the purges, and go into hiding.

JohnnyRock30 · Post by **JohnnyRock30** » 2005-05-19 10:13pm

Seriously, why is it hard to believe that other Jedi survived ROTS? The only reason that Yoda and OB1 even came out of hiding is because of the introduction of R2-D2 and Threep-io to Tatooine. They had to come out of hiding to help him overthrow the Emperor. Any other Jedi would not have known about this and probably died in exile.....

JohnnyRock30 · Post by **JohnnyRock30** » 2005-05-19 10:14pm

^^^^ Him being Luke. Why is there no edit function here? (sigh)

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-05-19 10:35pm

Cykeisme wrote:Yoda does mention that Luke is the last.. I'm fairly certain of this, although I can't quote dialogue atm.

He does, although Yoda was also manipulating Luke from the start. Nothing he says can be taken literally or even as the truth as he knows it.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2005-05-19 10:36pm

For one it helps the audience's opinion of Yoda and Obi-Wan's intelligence. Even with 3 years of bloody slaughter and a galaxy wide ambush its not unreasonable to assume that there will be survivors. Jedi made their living defying the odds and cheating death even before the war and the Clone Wars effectively kicked natural selection for the Jedi into hyperdrive. True the Clone Troopers have total surprise and misplaced trust on their side but in reality there are very few absolutes. A 99% mortality rate for the Jedi would still leave dozens of Jedi still breathing after Order 66. Nitpickers would see this and question Yoda and Obi-Wan's assumption that because they hear from no others that their are no others. Reversing the recall signal fixes this nitpick.

Also it leaves open the possibility of surviving Jedi appearing in the television series which is to be set between Ep 3 and 4.

I think its likely that surviving Jedi would turn the Sith's policies against them and adopt the rule of 2, making no attempt to seek out survivors from the original order lest they alert the Empire. Instead they quietly pass on their teachings to an apprentice and doing good but insignificant on a galactic scale deeds here and there. This is something that could be explored in the series or at least be used as an excuse for a couple lightsaber duels per season.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-19 10:41pm

JohnnyRock30 wrote:Seriously, why is it hard to believe that other Jedi survived ROTS?

There is no disagreement that other Jedi survive ROTS. In fact, it would be illogical if this was not the case.

In case anyone is unaware, there's a 20 year gap in between the end of ROTS, and the beginning of ANH. My point is that GL intended Obi-Wan and Yoda to be the only Jedi surviving at the latter point in time.

Aside from how a lot of EU require the survival of other Jedi post-ANH for the purposes of carrying forward their stories (without being boringly devoid of Jedi), GL intended for Luke to be the last Jedi by the time he confronted the Sith Lords.
Regardless of whether the other Jedi are too weak, too old, unaware, or whatever, it doesn't matter: anything else dispels the sense of urgency and epic nature of the confrontation..

So from a non-SoD PoV, if GL intended all the Jedi to be dead by ANH, but allowed many to survive the end of RotS.. he probably intends for as-yet-unknown Jedi to turn up in the series or somesuch, right?

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2005-05-19 11:55pm

Did you just get off the phone with Lucas? Is that how you know so authoritatively what he does and doesn't intend?

Panzer Grenadier · Post by **Panzer Grenadier** » 2005-05-20 12:14am

There could be 10,000 Jedi that survived the purge, but even that is not enough to make a diffrence in a galactic population numbering in the multiple trillions.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-05-20 12:16am

Yoda has no way of knowing if other Jedi survived the purge. As far as he knows, Luke is the last one. It does not mean that some others did not survive by going deep into hiding, away from Yoda's knowledge. Yoda may have great powers of perception but it probably helps if he already knows where to focus them. He is not omniscient.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-20 12:32am

Panzer Grenadier wrote:There could be 10,000 Jedi that survived the purge, but even that is not enough to make a diffrence in a galactic population numbering in the multiple trillions.

Um, no. Even at the hight of their power, their population is very small, only a few tnes of thousands. At least a hundred are killed on Geonosis, and many, many more are killed during the course of the Clone Wars. Then you factor in that almost all of the Jedi leading troops or at the temple at the time of the giving of Order 66 were killed, that leaves an increasingly small number, scattered and on the run. EU vaguely hints at constant purges and hunts over the twenty year period between RotS and ANH. Even if there are some other trained jedi left, they would be distant, isolated, and few, most definantely not thousands. After all, a single jedi (with the help of two others) is able to drastically effect the course of galactic history.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-20 01:58am

Darth Wong wrote:Yoda has no way of knowing if other Jedi survived the purge. As far as he knows, Luke is the last one. It does not mean that some others did not survive by going deep into hiding, away from Yoda's knowledge. Yoda may have great powers of perception but it probably helps if he already knows where to focus them. He is not omniscient.

I suppose Yoda not being aware of the status of any other surviving Jedi sort of allows both approaches: the dramatic idea that Luke, standing before the Sith, was the last hope for the galaxy, forever.. and the necessity of other Jedi to flesh out any EU that takes place during or after the OT.

I like lots of the EU, but when I'm actually watching RotJ, I view it with GL's idea in mind (of Luke being the last). It also makes the name of "A New Hope" that much more powerful IMO.