Palpy Vs. Yoda (With a twist) SPOILERS POSSIBLE!!!!

[NecronLord]

He wasn't trained in the dark arts.

He doesn't need to be. He just needs to unleash his anger like Luke did in RotJ.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

The twist is, before Yoda goes to fight Palpatine, he goes into full dark side rage mode.......

900 years of pent up emotions, the anger from seeing the entire Jedi order wiped out, he just lets it all loose on Palpatine.

Could he have won?

No

He wasn't trained in the dark arts.

There are really no objectively 'dark' Force powers . . . except, perhaps, lightning, but even then Yoda could absorb it and then cast it somewhere less harmful (AOTC.) One might say crushing people's tracheas with your mind is dark, and Luke's daddy, the Dark Lord of the Sith was known for it. But Luke did it too (to a couple of Gammoreans in Jabba's palace in ROTJ.) In the end, it comes down to carefully using the Force to help you survive a fight and possibly disable your enemy, verses using the Force to roast your enemy alive before crushing him to bits and ripping his body into tiny little pieces.

[Darth Mortis]

He wasn't trained in the dark arts.

He doesn't need to be. He just needs to unleash his anger like Luke did in RotJ.

True, but would he know how to FOCUS his anger like Sidous and Luke have shown? I can't see Yoda beating Palpy, too many years of dark side study.


I have to assume it takes more than some anger to be able to do all the things we have see Palpy do (IE shroud the Council in Darkness)

meh, who knows really?

[NecronLord]

Palpatine's years of dark side study are nothing compared to the years Yoda has spent learning how to draw on the force and use its power. If he did so in anger, I see no reason why all those years would suddenly become irellevant.

Dooku knows, and he seems fairly adamant that Sidious would be up the creek without a water-leaverage inducing implement.

[Darth Mortis]

Palpatine's years of dark side study are nothing compared to the years Yoda has spent learning how to draw on the force and use its power. If he did so in anger, I see no reason why all those years would suddenly become irellevant.

Dooku knows, and he seems fairly adamant that Sidious would be up the creek without a water-leaverage inducing implement.

If that is the case, they why didn't Yoda sense the Sith lords intentions in the movies, I mean, if your point is correct, it should have been a walk in the park, right?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Palpatine's years of dark side study are nothing compared to the years Yoda has spent learning how to draw on the force and use its power. If he did so in anger, I see no reason why all those years would suddenly become irellevant.

Dooku knows, and he seems fairly adamant that Sidious would be up the creek without a water-leaverage inducing implement.

If that is the case, they why didn't Yoda sense the Sith lords intentions in the movies, I mean, if your point is correct, it should have been a walk in the park, right?

Because, in case you'd somehow missed the first two films, Sidious is a consumate master of deception. He never really used the Force much, instead dispatching his apprentices to places where his plans called for tackling the Jedi. All of his plotting up to the third movie was pulled off through expert political maneuvering and scheming. Unless you saw all the sides of the story, like us moviegoers sitting outside the fourth wall did, you'd not think Palpatine was anything more than another particularly slimy politician.

[Darth Mortis]

Agreed, but I would think that in direct contact that Yoda could sense his evil (Mace did, to a point).

He is a politically savvy person, but to stay in constant contact with the Jedi was ballsy, yes/no?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Agreed, but I would think that in direct contact that Yoda could sense his evil (Mace did, to a point).

He is a politically savvy person, but to stay in constant contact with the Jedi was ballsy, yes/no?

Again, he used his apprentices Maul and Tyrannis to do his dirty work that required a Force user. And when the Jedi were getting really suspicious, he maneuvered Anakin onto the Jedi Council, giving them a convenient focus for their suspicions (on Anakin,) and perhaps a false sense of security, since now they presumably think they'd have a powerful Force-user keeping tabs on Palpatine.

[Darth Mortis]

Agreed, but I would think that in direct contact that Yoda could sense his evil (Mace did, to a point).

He is a politically savvy person, but to stay in constant contact with the Jedi was ballsy, yes/no?

Again, he used his apprentices Maul and Tyrannis to do his dirty work that required a Force user. And when the Jedi were getting really suspicious, he maneuvered Anakin onto the Jedi Council, giving them a convenient focus for their suspicions (on Anakin,) and perhaps a false sense of security, since now they presumably think they'd have a powerful Force-user keeping tabs on Palpatine.

I have to respectfully disagree with point number 2 and concede point number 1.

The Jedi council did not have a high level of trust in Anakin, I think that attaching him to Palpy made them more aware of the situation, not less.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Agreed, but I would think that in direct contact that Yoda could sense his evil (Mace did, to a point).

He is a politically savvy person, but to stay in constant contact with the Jedi was ballsy, yes/no?

Again, he used his apprentices Maul and Tyrannis to do his dirty work that required a Force user. And when the Jedi were getting really suspicious, he maneuvered Anakin onto the Jedi Council, giving them a convenient focus for their suspicions (on Anakin,) and perhaps a false sense of security, since now they presumably think they'd have a powerful Force-user keeping tabs on Palpatine.

I have to respectfully disagree with point number 2 and concede point number 1.

The Jedi council did not have a high level of trust in Anakin, I think that attaching him to Palpy made them more aware of the situation, not less.

Concievably, if I were the Dark Lord of the Sith, I wouldn't cheerfully invite a Jedi to be at my side and to be my representative. This may have been the sort of thinking held on the Jedi Council. And again, it's more likely to make them watch Anakin more closely, since he's concieably young and impressionable, and worse, a powerful Force user, and can be readily swayed by a master of rhetoric who isn't a Force user.

[Darth Mortis]

"The force is strong in this one" how many times have we heard that very line. Hell Yoda could tell the force level of a toadstool 12 planets away, and yet could not sense Palpy AT ALL when he was standing 2 freaking feet away? 900 years of training and he can't sense this?

I am assuming you can't just turn off your powers at will.

[Darth Wong]

"The force is strong in this one" how many times have we heard that very line. Hell Yoda could tell the force level of a toadstool 12 planets away, and yet could not sense Palpy AT ALL when he was standing 2 freaking feet away? 900 years of training and he can't sense this?

I am assuming you can't just turn off your powers at will.

The Dark Side clouds the perception of others. Palpatine's presence in close proximity to the Jedi was probably diminishing their ability to use the Force (a mysterious problem that Windu mentioned in AOTC).

[Vympel]

The Dark Side clouds the perception of others. Palpatine's presence in close proximity to the Jedi was probably diminishing their ability to use the Force (a mysterious problem that Windu mentioned in AOTC).

I think that's accurate- in the novelization for a reason Obi-Wan cannot explain, he feels "the full power of the light" come back to him on the bridge of the Invisible Hand. My idea for why is that Palpatine did it on purpose, so that

a: he and his prospective apprentice could escape a doomed ship; and
b: he could do so without blowing his cover, since Grievous doesn't know Palpatine = Sidious;

[Uraniun235]

Yoda said in ESB that the Dark Side is not stronger, only easier and more seductive.

Personally, when I read that statement, I think "Then you've already lost." If something can give you equal power on an easier difficulty, it is an extrapolation to figure that given equal effort, you can get greater power.

But that doesn't make sense, because that would mean the Dark Side is stronger.

The Dark Side is instant gratification. The Light Side is delayed gratification.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

But that doesn't make sense, because that would mean the Dark Side is stronger.

Precisely. That's why the statement sounds like spin-doctoring to me.

[quoteThe Dark Side is instant gratification. The Light Side is delayed gratification.[/quote]

And what would you prefer, all else being equal? Why do I want to wait ten years for gratification when I can have it now?

[Darth Mortis]

If that is indeed the case (the dark side clouds the light) then you're saying yoda could be surrounded by 50 sith warriors and not sense a darn thing?


Also, Obi Wan sensed Vader in the OT.

So is essence dark side is > than light side in terms of satisfaction, and if indeed, that is the case, why isn't there a large number of dark jedi IN THE MOVIES? I mean as far as humans are concerned, quick and easy rules the day, now let me turn into McDonald's and use my palm to pay my bills......

[Illuminatus Primus]

It takes Jedi training to learn to touch the Force - and the Jedi are very good at training and indoctrinating young Force adepts. Unsuitable ones are taught self-control and how to resist the dark side and funneled into the AgriCorps or ExploriCorps. Very few achieve power and then fall to the dark side and escape to wreak havoc. But some do.

Xanatos being just one prequel era example.

[CDiehl]

I think Yoda could have beaten Palpatine had he given himself to the Dark Side, since the Jedi and the Sith seem to use a lot of the same abilities, but for different ends. However, I also think Yoda would have made himself Emperor, which would be merely trading one Dark Lord for another. While it is perversely entertaining to imagine Yoda going utterly apeshit on the Emperor, it may be for the best that he didn't. After all, who would be able to defeat him if that happened?

[MrAnderson]

Agreed, but I would think that in direct contact that Yoda could sense his evil (Mace did, to a point).

He is a politically savvy person, but to stay in constant contact with the Jedi was ballsy, yes/no?

There is one scene in AOTC when Yoda is by Palpy and an expression crosses Yoda's face. Yoda senses that something is there but he cannot place what it is.

Remember there are only two Sith. There are thousands of Jedi. I would bet that the first thing a Sith masters is how to hide. It is a skill far more important to a sith than a jedi.

[Darth Mortis]

And by hiding you mean sitting 3 feet from them?

[Guardsman Bass]

When Dooku commented on an enraged Yoda tearing through any living force-user, was it a short quote? Could you post it?

[Darth Mortis]

Quick Question, now there are only supposed to be two sith at Any time correct? Can somebody give me timeline of the Maul era and that of the Darth T. setting up the clones?


Thanks

[Guardsman Bass]

I think Yoda could have beaten Palpatine had he given himself to the Dark Side, since the Jedi and the Sith seem to use a lot of the same abilities, but for different ends. However, I also think Yoda would have made himself Emperor, which would be merely trading one Dark Lord for another. While it is perversely entertaining to imagine Yoda going utterly apeshit on the Emperor, it may be for the best that he didn't. After all, who would be able to defeat him if that happened?

Not likely. With Yoda, once he regained his senses, he would probably realize he had "tainted" himself and gone into exile, anyways.

[Lord Revan]

Personally, when I read that statement, I think "Then you've already lost." If something can give you equal power on an easier difficulty, it is an extrapolation to figure that given equal effort, you can get greater power.

Didn't Yoda say "Then the Emperor has already won"?

Perhaps for equal effort, the Dark Side can bestow you with more power.. but the Light Side increases the amount of effort you are capable of putting out.

it was Kenobi and I think that in total both sides are of equavel power the Dark side can bring more power to a fight with less effort.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

If that is indeed the case (the dark side clouds the light) then you're saying yoda could be surrounded by 50 sith warriors and not sense a darn thing?


Also, Obi Wan sensed Vader in the OT.

So is essence dark side is > than light side in terms of satisfaction, and if indeed, that is the case, why isn't there a large number of dark jedi IN THE MOVIES? I mean as far as humans are concerned, quick and easy rules the day, now let me turn into McDonald's and use my palm to pay my bills......

A) Dark Side users had a real good reason to learn how to not be found, after getting their asses handed to them by the Jedi thousands of years before. But they're not as good as Palpatine. Palpatine could keep himself hidden. His two pawns were quickly identified as Sith when they showed themselves.

B) Darth Vader isn't Palpatine. And Vader's not exactly known for being subtle about his Force usage. Just ask Admiral Ozzel and Captain Needa. And he had no reason to hide his Force powers in the late Imperial era, especially being the Emperor's very-visible enforcer.

C) The Jedi had created thousands of years of tradition and testing to snatch up all the good Force users they could, and keep the bad apples from researching and using the Force. They probably did their absolute best to keep all knowledge of the Force locked up within the Order. (The Sith were secretive about the Force as well. Albeit for slightly different reasons.) This is probably why the Jedi went from being a well-known fact of life in the Republic era, and dismissed as a superstition inside the space of a generation.