Post-Borged Vader really weaken?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-20 03:17pm

Are you talking about Luke Skywalker, Grand Master of the Jedi Order here, or are you talking about Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight...?

Darth Mortis · Post by **Darth Mortis** » 2005-05-20 03:20pm

So, the assumption is that Maul was greater than vader, Luke, and yoda I guess.

If so, then why is he dead?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-20 03:21pm

He was dead because he was overconfident. You will note he didn't simply finish Obi-Wan. I doubt he could take on Yoda, to be honest,.

Darth Mortis · Post by **Darth Mortis** » 2005-05-20 03:22pm

I personally am of the opinion that over-confidence IS weakness.

And I am sticking to my guns, Maul could not handle Luke.

I'm pretty sure the novels and EU support my theory.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-20 03:24pm

So you're talking about Luke Skywalker, Jedi Grand Master.

Well... Yes. Of course he could take Maul at this stage. However, as you didn't specify, everyone got the (entirely valid) impression that you mean Luke during the films.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-20 03:24pm

Darth Mortis wrote:So, the assumption is that Maul was greater than vader, Luke, and yoda I guess.

If so, then why is he dead?

Because you touch yourself at night.

Luke of the OT was going on a bit of talent, a lot of strength, and virtually no training. Maul would have cut him down in a heartbeat.

Luke was able to hold his own because Vader never actually cut loose on him.

Post-OT EU Luke comes into his own, but the Luke of the OT was not even at Obi Wan's level from ANH in terms of skill. (Though he did at least avoid the obnoxious lightsaber twirling.)

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2005-05-20 03:26pm

Darth Mortis wrote:So, the assumption is that Maul was greater than vader, Luke, and yoda I guess.

If so, then why is he dead?

Luke couldn't defeat Vader on Cloud City or the DSII. So that obviously means that if Maul can defeat Luke, then he could defeat Vader and Yoda as well.

Yeah, great logic

.

Darth Mortis · Post by **Darth Mortis** » 2005-05-20 03:28pm

Never mind, don't want to start a flame war.

Guess I'm just a big Skywalker fan.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-20 03:34pm

Darth Mortis wrote:Meh,

Maul isn't that impressive, I don't remember Palpy rushing down to "save" his prize apprentice. He was fodder.

Maul was a one-dimensional killing machine. Palpatine wasn't upset to lose him at all, but in his niche Maul was one of the best.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-20 03:35pm

Darth Mortis wrote:Never mind, don't want to start a flame war.

Guess I'm just a big Skywalker fan.

Okay, it's irrelevant to the topic at hand anyway.

Darth Mortis · Post by **Darth Mortis** » 2005-05-20 03:35pm

Fair enough, but if I'm going into a fight, I want Yoda, Anakin, or Obi before maul.

Although Maul would crush General G.

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2005-05-20 03:37pm

Darth Mortis wrote:Meh,

Maul isn't that impressive, I don't remember Palpy rushing down to "save" his prize apprentice. He was fodder.

You seem to be confusing innate ability with training. TPM Anakin might have had the highest midichlorian count Qui Gon had ever seen, but that doesn't mean that any youngling from the Temple couldn't have kicked his ass.

Actual ability = innate ability + training. OT Luke clearly had little of the latter compared with the PT force users.

Darth Mortis · Post by **Darth Mortis** » 2005-05-20 03:42pm

I see your point, however, Anakin could certainly out fly any other youngling I suppose.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-20 03:45pm

Jedi don't fly!!

Darth Mortis · Post by **Darth Mortis** » 2005-05-20 03:50pm

Well at least I know one who hates it..

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2005-05-20 05:08pm

Damn I can't think the name of the name right now but their is a martial art in the SW RPG; that allows a person to greatly increase their force potential by doing ti-chi or some shit. Seriously....

The originater of the art was so weak in the force that the Jedi passed her over. She eventually became strong enough in the force that she stood out like a beacon and Jedi came running wonder what was going on. According to the RPG, even an average (ie virtually nil force potential) person could become powerful in the force.

So maybe it seems that there is a state of mind aspect and a physical aspect to being strong in the force.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-05-20 05:10pm

Teras Kasi?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-05-20 05:46pm

Seriously, look at Anakin's body in the medical chamber in ROTS; particularly
his face; it's displaying MASSIVE burns; and burns are very very painful; he
must have been in screaming agony every time he moved, unless of course
he was doped up on painkillers...

Then look at him when he's unmasked in ROTJ; his face has healed up
over the last 20 years.

EDIT: And it should reason that as his body heals, his powers would return;
Oh, I know that there's a Sith Lord in KOTOR II who had every bone in his
body broken and that he survives only through the sheer hatred of the
Dark Side; but he can't be that powerful if he has to consciously keep his
body alive...that would absorb a lot of his energies.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-20 05:50pm

Darth Mortis wrote:Well at least I know one who hates it..

Hates what?

Grandmaster Jogurt · Post by **Grandmaster Jogurt** » 2005-05-20 06:11pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Hates what?

Flying. I assume he refers to Obi-Wan.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-20 06:54pm

Shep's theory is actually a good one; constant physical agony and discomfort would be an impediment toward focusing oneself in the Force.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-20 06:56pm

McC wrote:Teras Kasi?

Teräs Käsi with an ä (word is finnsh for steel hand)

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-20 07:07pm

I thought of more to add.

Darth Wong wrote:Because the midichlorians will reject them or they will reject the midichlorians? You can't always transplant things. You don't even know where they come from; they apparently entered Shmi Skywalker's body with no real explanation and then left her with the boy, so she didn't gain any powers out of the deal.

Why would that happen? Couldn't you isolate your own midichlorians, clone them, then reinfuse? We can certainly isolate midichondria? Those would not reject?

I would also like to add that sperm cells cannot contain sub-cellular organelles; mitochondria, which midichlorians are based on, only pass from the mother's side. Sperm just are not big enough for them to fit inside. By this "cellular hereditary" theory, the Force sensitivity would only pass from the mother to her children - this is clearly not the case. And again, cloning technology should have no problem hacking it - each instance of Force sensitive clones could be explained by my exposure theory - C'boath was produced under Palpatine's eye, Palpatine's clones under his eye, and Luuke Skywalker under C'boath's eye. Each instance has an available Force user who can concentrate the Force within the developing individual. Otherwise, why not breed Force sensitive armies if the midichlorians can just be duplicated in development?

Sean Howard · Post by **Sean Howard** » 2005-05-20 09:01pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Sean Howard wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: The best solution I think is that midichlorians are caused by Force sensitivity - they do not cause Force sensitivity
I like this idea.

Midichlorians could also be a type of cell that gets created like cancer, with the force being the carcinogen.

Ok bad example, but it could be that its not the midis doing anything, they're just a symptom of being force sensitive.
This explanation completely falls apart when you attempt to explain how the fuck Luke inherited his Force ability from his father. There must be some kind of physical cause involved; any explanation which flatly denies this is fucking ostrich head-in-sand material.

I don't disagree that E1-3 strongly support the physical explanation. I just don't like it. It makes my butthole pucker.

Sean Howard · Post by **Sean Howard** » 2005-05-20 09:03pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Shep's theory is actually a good one; constant physical agony and discomfort would be an impediment toward focusing oneself in the Force.

You know, I was wondering why they weren't like, at least wiping the fucking crust off the guy before putting his suit on. jeez, I woulda thought he'd have gone into the aqua-healing tank at least until his major wounds were healed.