ARC Troopers and Order 66

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-20 10:54pm

Another thing.. the last question here on this Star Wars Minatures FAQ is in no way official at all, and is just a justification for a game ruling, but it got me thinking.
How did the ARC Troopers, who received no genetic modification, and received most of their training from human trainers, respond to Order 66?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-20 10:56pm

I'd assume in the exact same manner that the rest of the Clonetroopers did: with total obedience.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-20 11:03pm

Weren't they supposed to be rebellious, difficult to control, with disrespect toward authority in the first place? How would those who had some sense of camaraderie with the Jedi have responded, without the absolute loyalty of rank-and-file genetically modified Clones?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-20 11:08pm

They should still be completely and utterly loyal to Palpatine first and foremost, no matter how Jimmy Dean they were.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-05-20 11:10pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:They should still be completely and utterly loyal to Palpatine first and foremost, no matter how Jimmy Dean they were.

That's James Dean. Jimmy Dean is a brand of sausages.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-20 11:17pm

I know.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-05-20 11:20pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I know.

What, so they're artificial, fat-laden and potentially carcinogenic?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-20 11:24pm

Just seeing if you guys are paying attention.

Zed Snardbody · Post by **Zed Snardbody** » 2005-05-20 11:31pm

Iceberg wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I know.
What, so they're artificial, fat-laden and potentially carcinogenic?

The carcinogen is what makes them tasty

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-21 12:30am

Perhaps they did carry out the Order.
But why would they?

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:They should still be completely and utterly loyal to Palpatine first and foremost, no matter how Jimmy Dean they were.

They certainly should be loyal, but were they?

Those who have fought along side and/or had their lives saved by Jedi would respond to such actions the way a normal human would, not a genetically and psychologically manipulated rank-and-file Clone.

Perhaps this has something to do with why ARCs were replaced with Republic Commandos (who are genetically tweaked) so quickly. IIRC the only ARCs in existence are as old as the oldest clones, made with the first batch.

I'm considering this in parallel with the discussion on the "Order 66 question (naturally spoilers)" thread.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-21 01:16am

Because even though the ARCs have the increased thinking and such on their minds, they are still soldiers with the mission and their orders being their first priority.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2005-05-21 09:00am

It would certainly be an interesting scenario to imagine an ARC trooper getting Order 66 and seeing his fellow clonetroopers raise their rifles to the back of a Jedi who's a friend of his, pausing for a WTF moment, and then busting in and blasting the clonetroopers away while the Jedi escapes.

Still, i'd expect the reality would be he'd just think "I trusted you and you betrayed me/us, die Jedi dog!"

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-05-21 09:04am

Wasn't Commander Cody an ARC trooper? Or was that Clone Commander?

I can't keep track of all this shit. But even so, it doesn't matter: Cody was a friend of Obi-wan, a comrade-in-arms, and he returned his lightsaber and you can even see the cheerful expression behind the mask. Then Order 66 comes in, and he orders an immediate strike on Obi-wan.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-21 11:36am

Cody was a Clone Commander. Not as independant as an ARC trooper.

The ARC troopers are at least independant enough to defy stupid orders from their Jedi generals. I would expect that there is a chance the ARC troopers would question the orders if the jedi in question was obviously loyal.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-05-22 01:22am

Cykeisme wrote:Perhaps they did carry out the Order.
But why would they?

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:They should still be completely and utterly loyal to Palpatine first and foremost, no matter how Jimmy Dean they were.
They certainly should be loyal, but were they?

Those who have fought along side and/or had their lives saved by Jedi would respond to such actions the way a normal human would, not a genetically and psychologically manipulated rank-and-file Clone.

Perhaps this has something to do with why ARCs were replaced with Republic Commandos (who are genetically tweaked) so quickly. IIRC the only ARCs in existence are as old as the oldest clones, made with the first batch.

I'm considering this in parallel with the discussion on the "Order 66 question (naturally spoilers)" thread.

Huh. I thought ARCs /were/ the Republic Commandos.

Setesh · Post by **Setesh** » 2005-05-22 01:31am

Nephtys wrote:
Cykeisme wrote:Perhaps they did carry out the Order.
But why would they?

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:They should still be completely and utterly loyal to Palpatine first and foremost, no matter how Jimmy Dean they were.
They certainly should be loyal, but were they?

Those who have fought along side and/or had their lives saved by Jedi would respond to such actions the way a normal human would, not a genetically and psychologically manipulated rank-and-file Clone.

Perhaps this has something to do with why ARCs were replaced with Republic Commandos (who are genetically tweaked) so quickly. IIRC the only ARCs in existence are as old as the oldest clones, made with the first batch.

I'm considering this in parallel with the discussion on the "Order 66 question (naturally spoilers)" thread.
Huh. I thought ARCs /were/ the Republic Commandos.

Not really, the first line of RC were still called ARC's but only one of the original ARC troopers trained by Jango survived the battle of Kamino. He's also the first Trooper to get a name, 'Alpha', from Ani who always seems to care more about the clones than the other Jedi anyway. (backed up by Ani's desire to go help the Clone Pilots in the openning, but Kenobi just brushes their deaths off. Granted this isn't surprising his view of the clonetroopers is affected by his own slave up bringing, the clones are slaves, from a certain point of view.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-22 03:59am

ARCs and Republic Commandos are totally different.

ARC stands for Advanced Recon Commando.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-22 06:10pm

ARCs have no docility and obedience modifications to their genetics... only growth acceleration. They are otherwise identical to Jango. That's the reason I'm asking this.

In case anyone is wondering, Republic Commandos are genetically identical to regular Clonetroopers, which are unable to disobey orders.

Setesh wrote:only one of the original ARC troopers trained by Jango survived the battle of Kamino.

So there's only one remaining clone soldier who isn't genetically tweaked for obedience?
(Aside from Boba).

Btw, the observation that Anakin's consideration for the clones' welfare due to his slave upbringing is interesting.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-22 06:17pm

like said ARC and Clone Commandos are not the same, but in Republic Commando (the game) Clone Commando were able to resist/disobey orders, but I think that Second generation ARCs and all Clone Commandos had modifications to make unable to disobey order 66 (or any order by the Senate and/or Palpatine)

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-22 06:18pm

Lord Revan wrote:like said ARC and Clone Commandos are not the same, but in Republic Commando (the game) Clone Commando were able to resist/disobey orders, but I think that Second generation ARCs and all Clone Commandos had modifications to make unable to disobey order 66 (or any order by the Senate and/or Palpatine)

Huh? When did they disobey orders?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-22 06:24pm

Huh? When did they disobey orders?

from the end movie

Delta 38 wrote:I don't care if they did come from Master Yoda himself

this shows that Delta 38, was willing to disobey orders and go rescue Sev (aka Delta 07), the fact that he didn't do it is irrelevant (as Clonetrooper obey orders without questioning them

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-22 06:30pm

Lord Revan wrote:
Huh? When did they disobey orders?
from the end movie
Delta 38 wrote:I don't care if they did come from Master Yoda himself
this shows that Delta 38, was willing to disobey orders and go rescue Sev (aka Delta 07), the fact that he didn't do it is irrelevant (as Clonetrooper obey orders without questioning them

Hmm, that's true. Still I wonder if something in their mental programing would have stopped them if they actually tried to save Sev? You're probably right though.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-22 07:28pm

The behaviour of Delta 62 (Scorch) in particular seems inconsistent with the willingness of Commander Cody and Bly to immediately try to kill their Jedi generals.

The idea that something would have prevented them from actually deserting to rescue Delta 07 is interesting. Nevertheless, they showed hesitation, and this alone distinguishes their behaviour from that of Bly and Cody (assholes).

While genetically identical, Republic Commandos refer very different training programs, including large amounts of live training from human instructors (mercenaries, bounty hunters and other experts in various fields). In addition, RCs are meant to operate with a high degree of independence from higher command.
Perhaps the inability to disobey orders is partly genetic and partly ingrained through some psychological drilling, and hence is not present in RCs?