Plagueis and Sideous (SPOLIERS)

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-05-20 11:04pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:I dont, personally, buy this 'Sith Creationism' thing. It's just too...far reaching. I have less trouble beleiving in one man castinga shroud of darkside energy over the entire Jedi Order, which is in and of itself kind of unbeleiveable, than i do one man singlehandedly manipulating EVERY event to his favor. I mean, one mistake and it all come scrashing down. Anakin was a slave, what if he is abused and killed? What if he gets caught in a pod-racer engine, or mamed by a malfunctioning machine? What if he tries to escape and is killed? No one, i think, is that good that they can have EVERY possibility planed for. Even counting Palpy's precog, he'd have to have agents everywhere, for years, to track and protect Anakin to make it all work out.

Palpatine has shown the ability to adapt his schemes for changing circumstances. There were probably a lot of things that did go wrong, along with a few things that Palpatine never thought of originally but which he managed to use to his advantage. Finding Anakin wasn't really essential to Palpatine's plan to take over the Galaxy, but when he was found, Palpatine recognized it as something that he could use to his advantage and incorporated it into his plans.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-05-20 11:08pm

There could always be the person that claims that Shmi was actually raped, and due to a sense of shame lied about there being no father (though, from a certain point of view, it wouldn't be a lie, since Anakin grew up with no father). The speculation would then continue to say that Qui-Gon didn't pick up on it because a) it wasn't a lie in a certain context, and/or b) he was thinking "0MG t3h Ch0zen 1!!!!1!eleven"

I, personally, find the "Anakin created by the Sith" cooler than "Zeus as The Force impregnates Shmi by appearing to her as a beam of light or something like that."

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-05-21 12:03am

I got the impression that Palpatine was lying through his teeth in order to entice Anakin, nothing more. Anakin was being an idiot through the whole movie.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-21 12:18am

Regarding Palpatine "switching plans" in TPM:

Palpatine's intention all the long was to screw over groups like the Trade Federation and Techno Union, he wanted to get the power out of the hands of the powerful factions, the alien factions, and into the central government. (References to that effect in Clone Wars Novels)

Plagueis or Sidious as Anakin's "creator:

If one of these guys did have a hand in it, I guess it would depend on how long it takes to actually impregnate Shmi at that point. Palpatine needed years in advance of TPM to lay the groundwork for his ascendancy, Anakin wasn't very old at the time of TPM. Also, in the novel Shadow Hunter, Maul talks of how Sidious raised him from his Youth and begun his Sith training at a young age, implying possibly that Sidious was the Master long in advance.

Anakin being born outside of the Republic:

It works into Palpatine's favor this way. Anakin entered the order with the attachment from his mother, and only made it into the order through Qui-Gonns insistence and Obi-Wans desire to train him has Qui-Gonn wished. The death of Shmi was Anakin's first major step, and later it was Anakin's attachment to Padme that sent him over the Edge. Having The Jedi and Amidala flee to Naboo in the first movie played right into Palpatine's hands. Who probably had it all played out according to his design, not in intricate detail but perhaps using the Force as a way of guiding events so they would play in his favor.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-05-21 12:32am

SCBN 2812:

Well, i dont really find it so hard to beleive that Palpatine manipulated the political aspects, that would be, in a way, very easy. Like you said, with some situations already in place before he popped up he could use as a stepping stone, it'd be even easier.

My problem is that it seemed like an extremely risky plan. I mean...this guy must suck at poker because he bets the whole farm every time. It would, really, be so easy for something to go wrong--not just "Oh snap, the princess has escaped, better send my Vin Deisel-like apprentice Maul to find her" wrong but "Oh snap, he got pasted in that pod-race, fuck" wrong.

But...my opinion is just that, since the intent seems to be the inferring Palpatine and/or the Force conceived Anakin. I'm just sayin', to me, it seems like a lot of risk for a guy who is so 'together' as Palpatine to take. OTOH it fits perfectly with the intent of the series, as it ties the relationship between Palpatine, Luke, Anakin all together quite tidily.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-05-21 12:44am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:SCBN 2812:

Well, i dont really find it so hard to beleive that Palpatine manipulated the political aspects, that would be, in a way, very easy. Like you said, with some situations already in place before he popped up he could use as a stepping stone, it'd be even easier.

My problem is that it seemed like an extremely risky plan. I mean...this guy must suck at poker because he bets the whole farm every time. It would, really, be so easy for something to go wrong--not just "Oh snap, the princess has escaped, better send my Vin Deisel-like apprentice Maul to find her" wrong but "Oh snap, he got pasted in that pod-race, fuck" wrong.

He almost certainly had a backup plan in case that happened (although he may not have even known that Anakin had been discovered at that point, since they didn't bring him to Coruscant until later.) Don't assume that the way things went was the only way that Palpatine's desires could have been fulfilled.