The Problem with Episode III (Spoilers, duh)

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-05-21 04:39pm

The movie is basically perfect, and Lucas has definitely redeemd himself. The feel of the movie is a lot smaller, and less grand than the others, but that's to be expected considering that much of it has to be Coruscant-centric, what with Palpatine's taking over. However, as a result of this smaller scale, I think Lucas has dispensed with what I call power scenes. The Devastator flying by the camera in ANH. The reveal of the Executor in ESB. Palpatine's massive lightning attack in RotJ. And, most directly, the loading of Clone Troopers onboard Acclamators at the end of AotC.

While there were scenes like this in the first half of the film, they were lacking in the second. This is partially explained by how the space battle was at the start, but I think with three changes, this movie would have quite possibly been the best of them all, as opposed to merely the best of the PT. The changes are:

1. Palpatine's declaration of the Empire. Make it all in one camera shot that swoops around behind him, instead of cutting in closer. And have some version of The Emperor's Theme playing, preferably with a lot of reverbration. Something to make the hairs on the back of your neck stand right up. And finally, have him raise his hands above his head as he says "... of the Republic into the first Galactic Empire!", instead of shortly thereafter. This change isn't really needed, though.

2. Vader's reaction to Padme's dead. Keep the scene as it is, but right after Vader's "NOOO!!" make him tilt his head forward, and then suddenly throw it back. Make a very deep but animalistic scream come out, and then basically have a force tornado, tearing the room into shreds, and obliterating everything. Possibly also have Palpatine cackling. This change is needed.

3. The Death Star. Don't show one Venator and then the Star Destroyer bridge. Show a fleet of dozens of them, with equal numbers of Victories interlaced, possibly with a few Acclamators and Dreadnoughts. And thousands of pre-TIEs on patrol, not just a few. Have the Imperial March blaring over the speakers. Have the camera tilt down, to show a Procurator or Mandator, or even the first ISD. THEN switch to the inside, but make sure that we can't see the Death Star until the final intercut. When that comes, make the March reach a final crescendo. Make sure the fleet of Star Destroyers is visible in from of the DS. This change is utterly necessary.

So, thats my opinion, and literally all I see that could be made better in this film. Comments?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-21 04:43pm

Yeah, how about posting this in the current thread instead of making a new topic:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=69115

Oh, and

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-05-21 04:46pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Yeah, how about posting this in the current thread instead of making a new topic:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=69115

Except that this isn't a review. Its a discussion of what changes could be made to make the film perfect, and if my changes would be better.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-05-21 04:47pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Oh, and

So the ending to AotC is wankish? Because this is the exact same sort of thing, and I think that this being the last Star Wars movie, we deserve to have that last bit of eyecandy.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-21 04:49pm

You're demands for Vader's scene and the fleet at the end cross the boarder of wanking, frankly. Sure it may be teenager-cool, but is it good cinema?

Also, having Vader go beyond apeshit is overkill. That would mess with the pacing of the film and isn't needed whatsoever, in my opinion.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-21 04:49pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Oh, and

Are you ever positive? Go fuck off Spanky. When you contribute something worth reading, maybe your constant critiquing won't be like a fucking tick in my skin.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-05-21 04:50pm

Well, I don't want to do too much of this Monday-morning quarterback shit, but I have a few suggestions;

Get someone else to write the love scenes. Honestly, the rest of the dialogue really was quite serviceable, but Lucas cannot write a love scene. There were people laughing in the theatre, and there shouldn't have been.

Expand on Qui-Gon's role in the third film. HUGE disappointment, and one of the biggest cheats in film history. It would have been fantastic to see Qui-Gon return one last time to teach his former apprentice and also his former master, and it would have really brought the dilemma between Qui-Gon's view of the Force and the more doctrinaire view of the Force established in EpI full circle. In Star Wars, we're supposed to see the major plot events happen, not have them briefly explained. Add in this scene and I think the PT ends perfectly, but without it, the ending is good, but not completely satisfying, in my opinion.

Oh, and Spanky? For god's sake, pull the stick out.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-21 04:55pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Oh, and
Are you ever positive? Go fuck off Spanky. When you contribute something worth reading, maybe your constant critiquing won't be like a fucking tick in my skin.

Oh no, IP thinks I'm being a dick! Oh, ennui!!

I admit that I should have offered my criticism earlier, but back off, hostility monitor.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 04:57pm

Give the SBD's in the beginning more robotic and and less slapstick voices and movements. That part in beginning is in my opinion a serious weakness. Even if the comedy there is needed, R2 kicking their asses like he does is plenty amusing without the squeaky voices.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-21 04:59pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Oh no, IP thinks I'm being a dick! Oh, ennui!! Puff off.

Whatever you little shit. Doesn't change that you're not constructive, helpful, or useful and next to no one would miss your presence here you pissant little turd.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-21 05:01pm

Jesus, back the fuck off.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-05-21 05:02pm

Okay, knock it off, fellas. We can do without the testosterone spraying over the forum.

I, too, would like to have seen Qui-Gon, but I can only assume Neeson (who vowed never to act again after Episode I) was too busy with other projects, ironically. If not, he should've been in.

I had no real problem with the droid voices given the funny "roger roger!" of the ones in previous films.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-05-21 05:06pm

The problem with Revenge of the Sith was The Phantom Menace, in particular the fact that almost nothing of not happened in that movie, forcing Lucas to cram nearly all the relevant parts of the story into two films instead of three, causing them both to feel a bit rushed.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-05-21 05:07pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:The problem with Revenge of the Sith was The Phantom Menace, in particular the fact that almost nothing of not happened in that movie, forcing Lucas to cram nearly all the relevant parts of the story into two films instead of three, causing them both to feel a bit rushed.

Having seen Episode I again this afternoon on TV, I agree. I had to try and recall why the TF was doing that embargo and what relevance it had to the plot (very little). It just seemed like the only real thing happening was finding Anakin and setting up the characters for the next two films.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-21 05:10pm

In Entertainment Weekly, Lucas said that pretty much 60% of the prequel story he previously thought up was for RotS, with the remaining 40% being split up between the first two film, requiring quite a bit of filler.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-05-21 05:11pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:You're demands for Vader's scene and the fleet at the end cross the boarder of wanking, frankly. Sure it may be teenager-cool, but is it good cinema?

Also, having Vader go beyond apeshit is overkill. That would mess with the pacing of the film and isn't needed whatsoever, in my opinion.

I suppose you're right with the Vader part, but as far as the fleet goes, its about one sector group. Certainly that isn't unrealistic for a station of such size and strategic importance. And the lack of a full-out Imperial March in the darkest chapter of the saga was a bit unfortunate, IMO.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-21 05:14pm

In my opinion the components of AOTC and TPM should've been largely aggregated in one film, and many of the components of ROTS split over two.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-05-21 05:19pm

My main complaint of the whole thing was the clunky Anakin/Padme. It's a huge improvement over AOTC, but damn, they're still too wooden. Rewrite that and it'd be just spiffy.

I was kinda... 'wtf'd' at Grievous' organic bits catching fire, but it was decent.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-21 05:25pm

I had to try and recall why the TF was doing that embargo and what relevance it had to the plot (very little)

Actually it has very much to do with some of the Separatist factions and their motivations (which of course help kick off the CW).

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 2005-05-21 05:40pm

I was kinda... 'wtf'd' at Grievous' organic bits catching fire, but it was decent.

I kinda put that down to some waste bodily gasses igniting. The only bit that didn't work for me was the buzz droids. They just seemed like a needless gimmick to sell toys. Had the vulture droid launched an actual missile with an actual warhead, Obi Wan would have been killed.

Still, others i watched the film with didn't mind them, so I guess it's just me.

The Anakin/ padme bit was hugely wooden and forced. But I am of the opinion that this was deliberate. They're young and neither of them have had much experience in articulating feelings and emotions. One being a Jedi, the other raised around royalty and politics.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-21 05:52pm

jasonicusuk wrote:Had the vulture droid launched an actual missile with an actual warhead, Obi Wan would have been killed.

And Dooku would have been pissed off. Because he wanted to fight them.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 2005-05-21 06:05pm

And Dooku would have been pissed off. Because he wanted to fight them.

And there would have been nobody to pwn Anakin at the end.

If obi-wan were killed, there would have been nobody to cut Anakin down to size, and the emperor would have been overthrown by his own apprentice.

Prehaps then, the buzz droids were part of the emporers master plan

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-21 06:07pm

jasonicusuk wrote:The only bit that didn't work for me was the buzz droids. They just seemed like a needless gimmick to sell toys. Had the vulture droid launched an actual missile with an actual warhead, Obi Wan would have been killed.

Funny, because the buzz droids toy-wise are really just a small gimmick of the Droid Tri-fighter.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 2005-05-21 06:23pm

Funny, because the buzz droids toy-wise are really just a small gimmick of the Droid Tri-fighter.

"Mummy, Mummy look. This fighter comes with that cute little droid with the big eyes. Can I have one? Pleeeeaaaase! "

Your point?

*edited grammer*

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2005-05-21 06:28pm

I was quite disappointed by Vader's rage scene near the end. He was obviously pissed, but all he did was put a couple of dents in nearby metal surfaces. "yay". I was fully expecting the room to be torn apart, with even Palpatine backing off to avoid the carnage. Vader's abilities in ESB were far more impressive.