What was so devastating about the Clone Wars? (Spoilers)

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-05-21 09:03pm

Okay, from the way people talked about in in the Original Trilogy and
the EU; it sounded like a huge devastating war that affected everyone;
but Lucas with his Prequel trilogy makes it sort of hard to believe that it
was devastating; because both sides are fighting with "free" expendable
soldiers aka Clones and mass produced droids; and most of the fighting
I think takes place on the Outer Rim; which is not exactly the beating
heart of the Galactic economy...

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 09:07pm

What makes you think the casualties were limited to droids and clones? Are there no civilian deaths in real wars? During the Battle of Coruscant alone, hundreds of thousands were killed by crashing starship hulls that penatrated the shield net. From an economic standpoint, most of the "bank" worlds of the CIS were either BDZed or taken, which would probalbly have serious reprocussions on any worlds under thier jurisdiction.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-05-21 09:08pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:What makes you think the casualties were limited to droids and clones?

Because I just finished watching "The Clone Wars Volume 1" on DVD, and
well, all we see are Clones, Clones, Clones, Clones; it seems the Republic
relies entirely on the Jedi and GAR to do their fighting.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 09:08pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:What makes you think the casualties were limited to droids and clones?
Because I just finished watching "The Clone Wars Volume 1" on DVD, and
well, all we see are Clones, Clones, Clones, Clones; it seems the Republic
relies entirely on the Jedi and GAR to do their fighting.

Did you read the rest of my post?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-05-21 09:11pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:Did you read the rest of my post?

Yes; don't forget that a lot of the economic damage from a war comes from
the youngest and healthiest young men going off and getting killed; with
an endless supply of Clones and Droids the galactic population isn't going
to be suffering a population drop other than that caused by collateral
damage.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 09:13pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:Did you read the rest of my post?
Yes; don't forget that a lot of the economic damage from a war comes from
the youngest and healthiest young men going off and getting killed; with
an endless supply of Clones and Droids the galactic population isn't going
to be suffering a population drop other than that caused by collateral
damage.

So by your definition, billions of civilian casualties doesnt count as devestating? Just economic impact?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-05-21 09:16pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:So by your definition, billions of civilian casualties doesnt count as devestating? Just economic impact?

Billions is a drop in the bucket in the Star Wars universe.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-05-21 09:17pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:Did you read the rest of my post?
Yes; don't forget that a lot of the economic damage from a war comes from
the youngest and healthiest young men going off and getting killed; with
an endless supply of Clones and Droids the galactic population isn't going
to be suffering a population drop other than that caused by collateral
damage.
So by your definition, billions of civilian casualties doesnt count as devestating? Just economic impact?

Let's not forget entire planets reduced to shimmering balls of slag...

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 09:19pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:So by your definition, billions of civilian casualties doesnt count as devestating? Just economic impact?
Billions is a drop in the bucket in the Star Wars universe.

So was 3,000 people in the USA, but it was a big deal after 9/11, wasnt it?
Besides, both sides had to dedicate massive resources to the war. That would severly deplete any economy (especially if your major resource worlds are getting BZDed.)

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-05-21 09:19pm

The Clone Wars carton is also a very small window into the conflict.

Consider the effect of a battle within a city on the local populace in modern warfare.

Now, sub in Star Wars level weaponary, and 200 Gigaton Turbolaser blasts hitting a planet.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2005-05-21 09:21pm

What about trade disruption and such? Even the most self-sufficient planet will suffer if it is cut off even a little from its regular trade...

And what is the defination of a drop in the bucket? Arguably 5000 causualties in New York City is a "drop in the bucket" in the United States, never mind the world, yet it is viewed as quite the tragedy.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-05-21 09:25pm

Solauren wrote:Now, sub in Star Wars level weaponary, and 200 Gigaton Turbolaser blasts hitting a planet.

Except we haven't seen naval fire support being used on the ground;
from watching the Clone Wars Cartoon Vol 1; as well as the ground
battles in AOTC and ROTS, I'm not seeing any orbital fire support.

Secondly, why is the Republic using clonetroopers as naval gunners
when you have to fight a massive land campaign across the galaxy?

It's not like they had a shortage of people who knew how to fire
starship weapons vice those who were knowledgable in mass
ground warfare tactics....

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-05-21 09:27pm

MKSheppard wrote:Except we haven't seen naval fire support being used on the ground;
from watching the Clone Wars Cartoon Vol 1; as well as the ground
battles in AOTC and ROTS, I'm not seeing any orbital fire support.

The RotS ICS and other sources state that BDZ operations have been carried out. In particular, Grievous is noted for BDZing a number of core worlds in the Invisible Hand.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 09:29pm

As I recall, the Republic also does an incomplete BDZ on Geonosis, but they get driven away before they can penetrate the crust and eliminate the Geonosians and their factories wholesale.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-05-21 09:41pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:As I recall, the Republic also does an incomplete BDZ on Geonosis, but they get driven away before they can penetrate the crust and eliminate the Geonosians and their factories wholesale.

Look, I'm going to come out and be a bit harsh here; but I'm sick and tired
of having to dig through the Expanded Universe to find out what should have
been included in the movies and the Clone Wars Cartoons

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 09:42pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:As I recall, the Republic also does an incomplete BDZ on Geonosis, but they get driven away before they can penetrate the crust and eliminate the Geonosians and their factories wholesale.
Look, I'm going to come out and be a bit harsh here; but I'm sick and tired
of having to dig through the Expanded Universe to find out what should have
been included in the movies and the Clone Wars Cartoons

Since when is the entire war encapsulated in the cartoons and RotS? It obviously is not. Why would it have to be?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-05-21 09:43pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:Since when is the entire war encapsulated in the cartoons and RotS? It obviously is not.

I was more than happy to dig through the EU during the time of the
Original Trilogy, but when Lucas makes the Clone Wars a central part
of his Prequel trilogy, I expect to see a lot more than just filler that
while is visually satisfying, does not answer the serious questions we've
had about the Clone Wars since it was first mentioned in 1977 in ANH.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 09:44pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:Since when is the entire war encapsulated in the cartoons and RotS? It obviously is not.
I was more than happy to dig through the EU during the time of the
Original Trilogy, but when Lucas makes the Clone Wars a central part
of his Prequel trilogy, I expect to see a lot more than just filler that
while is visually satisfying, does not answer the serious questions we've
had about the Clone Wars since it was first mentioned in 1977 in ANH.

The entire run of Clone Wars was two hours, in 3-12 minute episodes, There is no way they could include anything major other than the story. Besides, there is that Clone Wars CG series coming out....

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-05-21 09:46pm

The CIS Base Delta Zeroed Humbarine, a city world similar to Coruscant. That's trillions, if not quadrillions of casualties right there, and it is eluded that this has happened elsewhere as well.

If that's not devastaion, I don't know what is.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-05-21 09:48pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:The entire run of Clone Wars was two hours, in 3-12 minute episodes, There is no way they could include anything major other than the story.

Actually, it's quite easy to place in throwaway lines to give us the impression of a much larger war effort than just the Clones, such as a line being told
to Palpatine in his office by someone in Republic Army garb:

"Chancellor, our recruitment drives are showing great promise, the Army is ahead of it's projected numbers by 30 percent"

I had great hopes for the Clone Wars Cartoon; but instead, what I got was
idiotic Dragonball-Z style fighting where the elite troops of the Republic,
the Clonetroopers, line up in single file and march towards the droids firing
their blasters on automatic.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 09:49pm

I had great hopes for the Clone Wars Cartoon; but instead, what I got was
idiotic Dragonball-Z style fighting where the elite troops of the Republic,
the Clonetroopers, line up in single file and march towards the droids firing
their blasters on automatic.

There were ground troops in DBZ?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-05-21 09:52pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:There were ground troops in DBZ?

If there were, that's how it would be.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 09:53pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:There were ground troops in DBZ?
If there were, that's how it would be.

If you say so........

spongyblue · Post by **spongyblue** » 2005-05-21 09:56pm

I think both the Genosian and Wookie involvment shows that its more than just clons and driods doing the fighting. Then there is also the cost of either a droid or clone army sutting up shop in your back yard getting ready to fight a war. I know I woulnt be to happy, even if I did support them.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 09:58pm

spongyblue wrote:I think both the Genosian and Wookie involvment shows that its more than just clons and driods doing the fighting. Then there is also the cost of either a droid or clone army sutting up shop in your back yard getting ready to fight a war. I know I woulnt be to happy, even if I did support them.

Very true, and even in the Clone Wars cartoons, they show native forces fighting, and being enslaved and slaugthered, by the CIS.