Why did I think it would be fun?(debate)

[Quadlok]

see it here: +http://www.strek-v-swars.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=215

For some reason, I got it into my head that I should join up there and have some fun argueing agains them, disregarding the fact that I'm not an experienced debator or that knowledgable of physics. I think I'm doing an all right job, but suggestions or opinions would be appreciated.

And if none of you want to help my stupid ass out of a mess of my own creation, a mod should feel free to flush this thread.

[Noble Ire]

I suggest you leave. Now.
And burn the bridge.

I had one look at the Canon policy and.....gone.
Not to mention the idiots. Oh, the idiots.

[Vympel]

I don't know, I find mocking those idiotic "5 days/ 7 days/ 2 weeks" Rebel trip to Endor nonsense arguments enjoyable. I only pop in every few days or once a week there now.

[AdmiralKanos]

I await the fucktards over there trying to spin ROTS to pretend that Anakin stood on the platform at Mustafar for days while Amidala flew there, and then lay there horribly burned and mangled on the rock for days more while Palpatine flew there.

[Vympel]

I await the fucktards over there trying to spin ROTS to pretend that Anakin stood on the platform at Mustafar for days while Amidala flew there, and then lay there horribly burned and mangled on the rock for days more while Palpatine flew there.

I'd love for them to try the latter- Obi-Wan could see Palpatine's shuttle coming, according to the novelization.

Of course, you've got to understand this bizarre fantasy they've constructed to try and shore up their delusions about warp vs hyperdrive. Of course, they don't accept any EU, so the 120,000LY SW galaxy need not be considered by them.

1. Size of the galaxy.

Cling to the quote from A New Hope that says the SW galaxy is "modest sized". Pretend that it means "modest sized compared to the Milky Way", or "modest sized compared to the Local Cluster" or "modest sized is smallr than the Milky Way because the Milky Way is huge" or some such nonsense.

Then proceed to argue that "modest" somehow translates into galaxies a rational person would consider tiny (obviously, since the SW galaxy would have to be absurdly small to make warp drive competetive).

2. Semantics about the Outer Rim.

(a) We know that Tatooine is on the Outer Rim of the galaxy, and this is proven by Padme's map in AotC. So they just pretend that since we don't know exactly where Coruscant is, Darth Maul's trip there in less than a day (probably more than 12 hours, assuming he left immediately and it was sometime before sunrise when he got there) need not be considered. Refer back to point 1 about the size of the galaxy.

(b) Kamino is beyond the Outer Rim, but they'll use a vague zoom-in from the map in the Jedi Temple, to argue that the Outer Rim is actually near the centre of the galaxy. Never mind this contradicts Tatooine, and that the map they refer to is the galaxy being viewed from the side, not birds-eye. Combine that with not knowing how far the zoom went, and this argument is also baseless. Not that this'll stop them from arguing it over and over.

3. The "argument from stars"

(c) Naboo is near Tatooine (obviously- Obi-Wan could reach Tatooine and Naboo from Geonosis, but not Coruscant, and the Royal Yacht in TPM could make it to Tatooine from Naboo, but not Coruscant). It is stated in the TPM novelization to be "at the edge of the galaxy". Claim that the movie contradicts this, since, heck, Naboo has "a lot" of stars visible around it, so it must be at the centre

So you know, the moment somehting so inconvenient comes up, they'll simply handwave by humming and hawing about the meaning of the term "outer rim", appeal to ignorance about the distance between the relevant planets, and make assumptions about what the word "modest" means.

And on the other hand, you can't neglect to get amnesia about everytime max warp drive has been described as several thousand c at most and instead go for maximal incidents ("centre of the galaxy" in ST V for example) and ones where the ship was somehow altered or under some outside influence in some way.

[Quadlok]

So, basically, there is no convincing these people, and I should leave there? Won't that just give them an excuse to say 'we beat the stupid warsie?' Have any of them ever conceeded anything?

[Bounty]

Won't that just give them an excuse to say 'we beat the stupid warsie?

I doubt anyone would notice if you'd leave. It's not a community like SDN.

[Firefox]

I'm still rather amused by their hand-waving over scaling the ships. They're still fucking adamant about Tantive IV being less than half its actual size, and suggesting it could still accomodate the interior scenes in ANH!

[Lord Revan]

I'd love to hear how they fit that Hangar from EP3 in Tantive 4 and still keep it <75 m.

[Firefox]

They apparently thought Grievous' fighter wasn't any bigger than a car, and that the hangar bay took up the entire midsection of the ship.

[Noble Ire]

They apparently thought Grievous' fighter wasn't any bigger than a car, and that the hangar bay took up the entire midsection of the ship.

That is funny.

[Lord Revan]

They apparently thought Grievous' fighter wasn't any bigger than a car, and that the hangar bay took up the entire midsection of the ship.

the fact that Obi-wan really small didn't cross their minds, or that the hangar is not even as wedge thing at center, why ain't I supriced.

[Darth Servo]

I await the fucktards over there trying to spin ROTS to pretend that Anakin stood on the platform at Mustafar for days while Amidala flew there, and then lay there horribly burned and mangled on the rock for days more while Palpatine flew there.

predicted Darkstar stupidity: We see Anakin's shadow to the right when Obi-wan chops his legs off, to the left when he's dragging himself along the ground and to the right again when Palpatine rescues him, so clearly it was over a day.

[Darth Servo]

Have any of them ever conceeded anything?

No to my knowldege. The main requirements for being a Darkstar disciple are an incredibly strong and thick wall of ignorance along with an incurable case of black knight syndrome.

[Quadlok]

Okay, so the consensus is that I won't accomplish anything and I should masturbate more often. Good to know.

[Crown]

I await the fucktards over there trying to spin ROTS to pretend that Anakin stood on the platform at Mustafar for days while Amidala flew there, and then lay there horribly burned and mangled on the rock for days more while Palpatine flew there.

predicted Darkstar stupidity: We see Anakin's shadow to the right when Obi-wan chops his legs off, to the left when he's dragging himself along the ground and to the right again when Palpatine rescues him, so clearly it was over a day.

You know I would love it if he did that; you mean to tell me that Anakin survived on the banks of a hell hot volcano and molten lava for a day?

Jedi wankantine helped by Darkstar, who da thunk it?

[Firefox]

I just remembered an observation that would help in the scaling debate. Bail Organa strolls from the port docking hatchway in the hammerhead, then turns left to enter the cockpit. His walk was fairly long for a ship only what? 26m according to the trektards?

Of course, they like to ignore interior sets, so it may not work out, on second thought.

[Mange]

I just remembered an observation that would help in the scaling debate. Bail Organa strolls from the port docking hatchway in the hammerhead, then turns left to enter the cockpit. His walk was fairly long for a ship only what? 26m according to the trektards?

Of course, they like to ignore interior sets, so it may not work out, on second thought.

IIRC, some of the claims is that it's 64 meters in length. The 150 meter length of the Tantive IV has been firmly established in ROTS. There is the AOR picture which shows Grievous's fighter in comparison to it. Grievous's fighter is 11.5 meters long and we know where the small hangar is located in which Kenobi docks with the fighter as well as the proportions of it (from the AOR picture and the ROTS comic which proved itself to be accurate).

[Glimmervoid]

I await the fucktards over there trying to spin ROTS to pretend that Anakin stood on the platform at Mustafar for days while Amidala flew there, and then lay there horribly burned and mangled on the rock for days more while Palpatine flew there.

I'd love for them to try the latter- Obi-Wan could see Palpatine's shuttle coming, according to the novelization.

Of course, you've got to understand this bizarre fantasy they've constructed to try and shore up their delusions about warp vs hyperdrive. Of course, they don't accept any EU, so the 120,000LY SW galaxy need not be considered by them.

1. Size of the galaxy.

Cling to the quote from A New Hope that says the SW galaxy is "modest sized". Pretend that it means "modest sized compared to the Milky Way", or "modest sized compared to the Local Cluster" or "modest sized is smallr than the Milky Way because the Milky Way is huge" or some such nonsense.

Then proceed to argue that "modest" somehow translates into galaxies a rational person would consider tiny (obviously, since the SW galaxy would have to be absurdly small to make warp drive competetive).

I though the milky way was small for a galaxy and most were much bigger.

[Glimmervoid]

Yoda’s response to darkstar “Hum the stupidity is strong, in this one is.”

[apocolypse]

I used to post over there, but haven't in some time. I actually forgot about it for a while. It's like debating with a room full of retarded monkeys. Seriously, it's just the same asinine, easily debunked but yet never seems to sink in, bullshit that we've all seen.

AKA, you'll have more fun jacking off.

[Ender]

Scale Vader to his shuttle in ROTJ, the Shuttle to the forward Bay in ROTJ, the forward bay to the total ship off the model, the total ship to the main bay off the model, the main bay to the T4 in ANH. It's 150.

And those tits get hammered if you bring actual physics to bear on them. I can justify 220 GT HTLs from the films, low end. And triple digit MTLs. Not to mention a shit ton of other stuff. Its like Bobby, who actually claims that conservation of energy does not apply in his rebuttal to MoO, and ignores conservation of momentum on his Death Star thing.

[Mange]

There is no point discussing over there. Here are some of the claims:

* An ISD is 686.5 meters long (or rather, it's about 17 times the size of the Falcon), an Executor-class Star Dreadnought is 6,004 meters long and the Tantive IV is 64 meters long. The corvettes seen in ROTJ belongs to a bigger class than the Tantive IV.

* The SW galaxy is a tiny dwarf galaxy and the Empire constitutes a tiny fraction of it.

* Luke wasn't brought before the Emperor until about one week after he arrived at the Death Star. Then he spent at least one more week in the Emperor's throne room. You see, that's the time it took for the Alliance fleet to travel to Endor from Sullust and for the Ewoks to prepare their attack on the Imperial troops (which, by the way, Han Solo and the rest of the strike team was well aware it would take place).

* The Ewok village is small and only consists of a few small huts.

* Some arguments, such as Han's attempt to explain the negative effects of the Empire's presence on Endor for the Ewoks in the ROTJ novelization, are to be taken literally, while others, such as "...spread across the galaxy", "... on the other side of the galaxy by now" doesn't mean anything.

[Vympel]

There is no point discussing over there. Here are some of the claims:

* An ISD is 686.5 meters long (or rather, it's about 17 times the size of the Falcon), an Executor-class Star Dreadnought is 6,004 meters long and the Tantive IV is 64 meters long. The corvettes seen in ROTJ belongs to a bigger class than the Tantive IV.

* The SW galaxy is a tiny dwarf galaxy and the Empire constitutes a tiny fraction of it.

* Luke wasn't brought before the Emperor until about one week after he arrived at the Death Star. Then he spent at least one more week in the Emperor's throne room. You see, that's the time it took for the Alliance fleet to travel to Endor from Sullust and for the Ewoks to prepare their attack on the Imperial troops (which, by the way, Han Solo and the rest of the strike team was well aware it would take place).

* The Ewok village is small and only consists of a few small huts.

* Some arguments, such as Han's attempt to explain the negative effects of the Empire's presence on Endor for the Ewoks in the ROTJ novelization, are to be taken literally, while others, such as "...spread across the galaxy", "... on the other side of the galaxy by now" doesn't mean anything.

ROFLMAO. Classic summary.

I really want to take a poll: did anyone who saw RotJ honestly think that the Rebels knew the Ewoks were going to attack, and had actually planned it with them in advance?

[Firefox]

I'm surprised no one has attempted what Mike suggested a while back by scaling the Lambda in relation to Vader's height, then extrapolating the ISD's size from the opening RotJ scene. Although, Dr. Saxton has already made such a measurement.

It's still amusing, yet frustrating, that they casually dismissed my attempts at scaling a CVN based on a couple of photos despite the fact that I used the same fucking methodology Weyoun used.