Ep3 review thread SPOILERS

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2005-05-22 11:05am

I'm sick of the people saying that the Anakin/Amidala scenes were "wooden". Goddammit, they're just copying what they see the critics say. They can't even make up their own phrasing, so they copy the oft-repeated "wooden" term. Have you ever tried listening to yourself when you try to sweet-talk a girl, for fuck's sake?

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-05-22 11:06am

Funnily enough I would liked more battle, but what they did provide was excellent in a variety of ways. A shitload of delving in there.

Indeed, there'll be tons of background stuff to check out once the DVD is released.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-05-22 11:11am

AdmiralKanos wrote:I'm sick of the people saying that the Anakin/Amidala scenes were "wooden". Goddammit, they're just copying what they see the critics say. They can't even make up their own phrasing, so they copy the oft-repeated "wooden" term. Have you ever tried listening to yourself when you try to sweet-talk a girl, for fuck's sake?

Never wooden, I just didn't care for the flow. In AoTC the way they spoke, sounded too forced, and their whole set of body language didn't convey any sort of hestiation on Padme's part or Anakin's pursuit. It looked odd. The words are cheesy, but so is romantic dialogue...it's never planned. I just didn't care for how Amidala and Anakin would have these pauses and the body language for me just didn't come off as natural.

For RoTS...I dunno...it honestly flowed better. It was really the way they acted it out was so much better, I could see in Anakin's body language and eyes and the way he held her, the way he greeted her and in fact how she reacted to him felt so much better. It gave to me the feeling they were very much in love.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-05-22 11:19am

AdmiralKanos wrote:Have you ever tried listening to yourself when you try to sweet-talk a girl, for fuck's sake?

In fact, I have. And from an outside observer standpoint, I sound like a complete and total jackass spewing corndog lines. And she didn't care, because she thought it was sweet that I was even trying. But then, I wasn't really bothered that much by most of the lovey-dovey lines during AotC or any during RotS, because they sounded not unlike something I would say.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2005-05-22 11:40am

Whilst viewing AOTC in the theater, upon reaching the fireside scene, the girl I was with leaned over and said something to the effect of "That sounds familiar!"

I'm a cheezy bastard, yes. But shit, it worked, so good times. w00t

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2005-05-22 11:48am

AdmiralKanos wrote:I'm sick of the people saying that the Anakin/Amidala scenes were "wooden". Goddammit, they're just copying what they see the critics say. They can't even make up their own phrasing, so they copy the oft-repeated "wooden" term. Have you ever tried listening to yourself when you try to sweet-talk a girl, for fuck's sake?

"Weak" is the term I lean too. I think these blanket statements that "every time Padme/Anakin opens their mouth I cringe" are way off. Though there are plenty of bad moments.

I also think Hayden Christiensen is taking a lot of flak and has been since Ep II. "He's whiney" Well, now you know Luke gets it from dear old dad. The reaction from most people tells me judgement was passed on him before he even appeared on screen.

And Natelie Portman...I dunno what is up with her because she is a fine actress (just watch "The Professional").

As for the Vader dialogue, I thought that only "NOOOOO!" was poorly executed. OTOH, when Vader asks if Padme is all right, the first time I saw it, I was still adjusting to hearing simply a new piece of dialogue in that voice. Upon rewatching that line, when he asks that question its chilling. Like if the Emperor gives him the wrong answer he'll tear his head off.

I was reading somewhere Lucas considered hiring a dialogue coach because he was too caught up in dealing with the technical issues of the film and I think that is really the problem with Lucas as a director, and these films. I'm wondering if he just did the live action takes as quickly as possible, settling for less so he'd have more time to do the visual effects. And dear God, are there a ton of effects shots. Where as in Star Wars, American Gaffitti and THX 1138, the visual effects technology wasn't there so he had to focus on what the actors were doing.

It was also rather telling on the documentry that came with the original trilogy dvds when Harrison Ford notes Lucas' directing style which is "its on the page...I wrote it...just do it!"

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2005-05-22 02:15pm

Just saw it today, and it's great.

I like the droid voices. When i rule the world, my invincible army of droids will all talk like that. Nyah

Still not sure what the point of S-Foils are, other than to look cool. Especially so on the ARC-170s.
At least we got to see a capsip fire it's main guns. i don't recall seeing an ISD fire one of those 8 main cannons on the ventral hull. Probably gonna be proved wrong about that, now

Not sure about having Palpatine's image show up on a Clone fighter's HUD; was half expecting him to fly into a pillar with that hologram obscuring his view.
Someone above mocked Ki Adi Mundi's death "died like a bitch". He was the only one (except Yoda and the kid) who managed to put up a defense. it actually looked to me like he got shot in the back by a droid while he was turned round deflecting clones' shots.
What and where was Ayla's line? All I remember, apart from her dying under a flower, was her hologram standing next to Yoda's and someone else (Mundi?), not saying anything. Obviously, whatever planet she was on wasn't important.
Not impressed by the Wookiee charge. They made up for it with those Ornithopter gunships, but if you're gonna be civilised, could you at least show it onscreen?

Dammit, got out the cinema 3 and a half hours ago, and I still have the end theme stuck in my head

edit: Maybe it's me, but ILM seem to have a problem with large flame/fire effects. The bit in TPM where Ani blows the TradeFed ship, and the fireball wipes out the fleeing battledroids always looks a bit cartoony to me, and I had the same effect when watching some of the shots on Mustafar.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-22 02:24pm

andrewgpaul wrote:Still not sure what the point of S-Foils are, other than to look cool. Especially so on the ARC-170s.

Cooling.

Additionally, fire is still one of the harder things to do in visual effects.

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2005-05-22 02:30pm

The explosions, small fires (the SBD in Grievous' ship, Grievous' innards) were fine, although that might just be ebcause I didn't see them filling the screen, of for more than 10 frames, compared with the ones I mentioned above.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-05-22 02:44pm

andrewgpaul wrote:I like the droid voices. When i rule the world, my invincible army of droids will all talk like that. Nyah .

I just got through watching the Empire Strikes Back (All 6 in a row is my plan

) And the probe droid talks in a very similar, high pitch, nasally sort of robotic voice. Taking that into considerations, the voices of the SBD's fit perfectly in my opinion.

(You all know what I'm talking about: Clear around the system. Clear around the sys.)

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2005-05-22 03:05pm

I don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said, it was great, completely blew AotC and TPM (especially TPM) out of the water.
All the things I didn't like are basically the same as everybody else (Grievous, talking droids, 'Noooo!') except that I didn't mind the romantic bits.
The things I did like are also largely the same, Yoda taking out the Red Guards, Yoda vs Sidious, Palpatine and Anakin's chat at the opera, Order 66 and Anakin vs Obi Wan at the end. I also liked that so much of it was on or around Coruscant, I love that place, both as a concept and for the visuals.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2005-05-22 05:19pm

Ace Pace wrote:How much gore and blood do you want? Its not supposed to be a R-17 movie, the plant purposfully blocks that part.

There was no problem with scorched skeletons or smoking Greedo in the original, no problem in ROTS with dismembering people, with setting Anakin on fire, with any of the other stuff... the whole Aayla segment seemed to have something messed up about it. Countless shots from weapons that had been seen blowing apart metal droids were having almost no visible effect upon bare flesh. Uber-fishy.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2005-05-22 05:32pm

About the Tantive: Do we ever actually see or hear it named as the Tantive IV, or do we just assume that it is?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-22 05:43pm

We've been told by Lucasfilm that it is, and it's also been mentioned in the literature as such.

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2005-05-22 05:45pm

Beowulf wrote:About the Tantive: Do we ever actually see or hear it named as the Tantive IV, or do we just assume that it is?

Not in the movie if I remember correctly but it is in the book and tech manuals I believe.

Bug-Eyed Earl · Post by **Bug-Eyed Earl** » 2005-05-22 07:06pm

Stravo wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:I
DID NOT buy Anakin's conversion. Not for one fucking second. It pissed me the fuck off that Lucas dropped the ball on this one. How the hell does Anakin go from turning Palpy in, almost killing him where he stood to getting down on one knee and calling him master. Sorry. I DID NOT BUY IT. It seemed like Lucas just wrote "And then Anakin becomes a bad guy,...cue evil light switch."

Lucas promised a character study in how a good man turns bad and what we got instead was a head scratching moment of "Why are you kneeling down before this man and calling him master?" Palpy did not provide an IOTA of proof to his claims yet the Jedi had been Anakin's friends and mentors all his life.

Anakin goes from telling Obi Wan how sorry he is for being an arrogant little twat to kneeling before a man who he just helped kill one of his idols and benefactors.

It pissed me off. I so Wanted to see that transformation. To see that decision and change and all I got was that lousy scene.
All that can be said against this complaint is that there were time constraints. I would have liked more emotional conflict there, but I think it was done as well as it could have been in the amount of film given (I personally thought Anakin's scene starring out from the council chamber beforehand built up to his conversion well, but it is true I would have liked to see more.)
Ahhh...but in ROTJ working under the same time constraints Lucas provides us with a very believable in character conversion moment for Luke. Vader just threatened his sister, his friends are being massacred in battle and they've been turning the screws on him double team style.

Anakin....sort of gets mad because the Emperor kind of says that he MIGHT have this power that COULD keep the people he loves from dying so he sort of gets on his knees to be an apprentice to someone after helping to kill one of his mentors and BTW this is after basically having a melt down a few scenes ealrier for not being dubbed a Master is now willing without hesittation to become an apprentice again?

Not to mention that he believes Palpy's lies over the Jedi lies? Palpy is a sith lord, has lied to him from day one. The Jedi raised him and only now is he suspecting that they're lying to him. So who do you throw your lot in with? The staypuft Sithlord man who lied to you, deep fried a mentor after you disarmed him or the group of people that raised you, one of whom you look on as a brother or father figure?

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Palpy's hissing and groveling made me groan outloud in his duel with Mace. What the hell?! I'm supposed to be afraid of this guy? "No...No...No..." UGH. That affected growling voice was hideous and then when you add the melting marsh mellow face you have nothng left to do but laugh at the most evil man in the galaxy. He became a charactiture.
The entire point of that scene was for him to look pathetic for Anakin. He did it well ( and I personally didnt mind the make-up.)
Its not so much the groveling as it was the whole over the top malevolence, hissing and especially the voice. Palpy in ROTJ had a soft seductive voice that only turned over the top cackling evil near the end. This was over the top from go.

Here's another problem I have with that scene: Sith Lord A (Darth Maul) kills Anakin's would be mentor who he grew to care for in a very short time. Sith Lord B (Dooku) tries to assassinate Padme and is responsible for an insanely bloody war.

The Sith in the prequels do NOTHING but destroy, and I don't see why Anakin wouldn't know about the "always two there are" rule. Wouldn't he put two and two together and realize that Palpatine has been the cause of a great deal of pain in his life?

I'm sorry, but even though it was otherwise a great movie, Anakin was a complete dumbass. I don't care about his premonitions- he should at least remain level headed enough to know someone is telling him what he wants to hear- especially if that person turns out to be a Sith Lord.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-05-22 08:27pm

Did it bother anyone else that there was no political exposition in the movie? The Senate are a bunch of cheering sycophants, but why? Palp was being voted 'new powers' to 'reduce debate', but we never see (or even hear) about debate causing problems. Further, why would their BE any debate if the Senate were a bunch of sycophants? The obvious explanation, that Sidious was arranging/controlling the situation to create these reactions, is unsatisfying because there is no evidence whatever that Lucas felt this way, and that it's just poor storytelling.

All non-SoD, of course. In-universe it makes sense, it's just really badly communicated to the audience.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-05-22 08:40pm

Stark wrote:Did it bother anyone else that there was no political exposition in the movie? The Senate are a bunch of cheering sycophants, but why? Palp was being voted 'new powers' to 'reduce debate',

And "increase security"

but we never see (or even hear) about debate causing problems.

That was in TPM.

Further, why would their BE any debate if the Senate were a bunch of sycophants?

Maintain the image that Democracy takes too long, isn't working, etc.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-05-22 08:49pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Stark wrote:Did it bother anyone else that there was no political exposition in the movie? The Senate are a bunch of cheering sycophants, but why? Palp was being voted 'new powers' to 'reduce debate',
And "increase security"

Missed one

but we never see (or even hear) about debate causing problems.
That was in TPM.

I think Anakins comments in ROTS are more recent than ten years ago. That single line is the only piece of info we have on the last few years, and (apparently) there has been debate etc, although I don't doubt Sidious is behind it all.

Further, why would their BE any debate if the Senate were a bunch of sycophants?
Maintain the image that Democracy takes too long, isn't working, etc.

Oh I know that it'd all be Sidious' doing. I guess I shouldn't be too noisy about it, given Earths history, but I would have liked to actually SEE Sidious slow down a deployment or requisition with his Dark Conniving, and then harvest the distrust and demands for greater expidency that result. Like I said, it's a non-SoD thing, since I just think RoTS was bad storytelling. I'm sure EU crap will fill in the blanks: but come on, fucking INCREDIBLES had a more fleshed out background for the action.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-22 08:52pm

I think Anakins comments in ROTS are more recent than ten years ago. That single line is the only piece of info we have on the last few years, and (apparently) there has been debate etc, although I don't doubt Sidious is behind it all.

there's also the problems the Senate is giving to Palpatine art directing the War (that so bad that at one point he basically order an operation without taking it to the Senate.)

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-22 08:52pm

The political related scenes in the script were likely cut because of pacing issues- not only was the movie 2 hours 20 minutes long already, but more than a few reviews noted with approval that the film wasn't "bogged down" in those scenes like TPM and AotC supposedly were. Though I found Palpatine talking about the Senate in TPM great, for example.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-05-22 08:57pm

Lord Revan wrote:
I think Anakins comments in ROTS are more recent than ten years ago. That single line is the only piece of info we have on the last few years, and (apparently) there has been debate etc, although I don't doubt Sidious is behind it all.
there's also the problems the Senate is giving to Palpatine art directing the War (that so bad that at one point he basically order an operation without taking it to the Senate.)

Burt? Really? EU, right? Was this before ROTS? Because, well, the Senate was utterly whipped in ROTS. I can't see them opposing ANYTHING.

Then again, I'm kind of bothered that he could just say 'yeah, btw n00b, Jedi are t3h evil and we're going to kill the lot. Not with bombs, or gas, but with swords. Because I'm t3h evil.'. Without evidence or anything. I hear he at least records Mace being threatening in the novel.

The pacing argument is okay, but I felt the movie DID drag in parts (overlong tedious 'action' scenes, mostly), but I'm obviously in the minority.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-22 09:03pm

The pacing argument is okay, but I felt the movie DID drag in parts (overlong tedious 'action' scenes, mostly), but I'm obviously in the minority.

Yeah, you're odd. Those action scenes can hardly be described as "overlong". Too damn short!

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-05-22 09:07pm

When one considers how plodding the political scenes were in TPM and the little we saw in AOTC I have to say that it was a correct choice on Lucas' part plus by this time I think it's fairly obvious the Senate is mostly under his control. I mean there were only a handful of signatories to the Rebel Alliance charter at this time, no?

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-22 09:13pm

Stravo wrote:When one considers how plodding the political scenes were in TPM and the little we saw in AOTC I have to say that it was a correct choice on Lucas' part plus by this time I think it's fairly obvious the Senate is mostly under his control. I mean there were only a handful of signatories to the Rebel Alliance charter at this time, no?

There wasn't a Rebel Alliance "charter" by the time of RotS- the discussions are very vague- just forming an "organization" to save the Republic from Palpatine. The one organization referred to in the script and the novel is the Committee or petition of 2,000 or some such (presumably 2,000 systems), of which Padme is head.