WoT meet Posleen

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2002-11-20 03:49am

consequences wrote:i'm saying that it doesn't seem likely that the Asha'man would put anywhere near the amount of effort into their walls of air until it was too late, having no experience in a Posleen combat environment.

But the humans on Earth would have experience, and Asha'man used in combination with the Earth military would be a different story.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-20 05:32am

Alex Moon wrote:
consequences wrote:i'm saying that it doesn't seem likely that the Asha'man would put anywhere near the amount of effort into their walls of air until it was too late, having no experience in a Posleen combat environment.
But the humans on Earth would have experience, and Asha'man used in combination with the Earth military would be a different story.

How do you figure? In the end the Asha'man is just going to be a more vulnerable artillery piece.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-20 05:37am

SylasGaunt wrote:
Alex Moon wrote:
consequences wrote:i'm saying that it doesn't seem likely that the Asha'man would put anywhere near the amount of effort into their walls of air until it was too late, having no experience in a Posleen combat environment.
But the humans on Earth would have experience, and Asha'man used in combination with the Earth military would be a different story.
How do you figure? In the end the Asha'man is just going to be a more vulnerable artillery piece.

Easy enough. The humans have the tech to keep the Asha'man safe so they can warehouse the powers. The Asha'man could use siadin over long distances (I would assume) if they had access to angreal and sa'angreal.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2002-11-20 12:41pm

SylasGaunt wrote:
Alex Moon wrote:
consequences wrote:i'm saying that it doesn't seem likely that the Asha'man would put anywhere near the amount of effort into their walls of air until it was too late, having no experience in a Posleen combat environment.
But the humans on Earth would have experience, and Asha'man used in combination with the Earth military would be a different story.
How do you figure? In the end the Asha'man is just going to be a more vulnerable artillery piece.

Actually, in some ways less vulnerable. Ashaman can do a lot of destruction, but the enemy is going to have a harder time tracing it back to them, especially if the Asha'man are constantly on the move, then they would a stationary artillery piece.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-20 12:56pm

consequences wrote:Yes, but there is a more than signifigant difference between stopping arrows, and holding up against weapons that can take out an Abrams with a frontal hit.

Except that what it does is stop the molecular movement of the air. It efectively locks them in place. They don't move at all. The KE of the object is, in this case, irrelevant.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-20 03:43pm

Stormbringer wrote:
consequences wrote:
Except that what it does is stop the molecular movement of the air. It efectively locks them in place. They don't move at all. The KE of the object is, in this case, irrelevant.

Evidence please.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-20 04:17pm

SylasGaunt wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: Except that what it does is stop the molecular movement of the air. It efectively locks them in place. They don't move at all. The KE of the object is, in this case, irrelevant.
Evidence please.

So what sort of evidence do you want? It's described as holding the air in place that's what it is. I can't explain it any more than I just did.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-20 05:06pm

Stormbringer wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:

So what sort of evidence do you want? It's described as holding the air in place that's what it is. I can't explain it any more than I just did.

So because it can hold air in place against the impact of an arrow it can hold it in place against a c-fractional kinetic strike?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-20 05:12pm

SylasGaunt wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote: So because it can hold air in place against the impact of an arrow it can hold it in place against a c-fractional kinetic strike?

When it stops the air completely, yes! It pins it in place. There shouldn't be any difference because the KE does affect the user at all.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-20 05:45pm

You haven't provided evidence it's strong enough to hold air in place against that kind of impact (or why any chaneller could ever be killed if that was all that was required to make them invulnerable to anything but another chaneller).

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-20 06:15pm

SylasGaunt wrote:You haven't provided evidence it's strong enough to hold air in place against that kind of impact (or why any chaneller could ever be killed if that was all that was required to make them invulnerable to anything but another chaneller).

WoT is not scientific. You expect evidence. The weave is described as making the air a solid block. And you have provided no evidence that the air *couldn't* hold. So I ask you to back up your claims.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-20 06:56pm

verilon wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote:
WoT is not scientific. You expect evidence. The weave is described as making the air a solid block. And you have provided no evidence that the air *couldn't* hold. So I ask you to back up your claims.

That channelers don't immediately use this? Honestly you are for all intents and purposes using the whole trekkie shields and lasers bit.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-20 07:12pm

SylasGaunt wrote:
verilon wrote:WoT is not scientific. You expect evidence. The weave is described as making the air a solid block. And you have provided no evidence that the air *couldn't* hold. So I ask you to back up your claims.
That channelers don't immediately use this? Honestly you are for all intents and purposes using the whole trekkie shields and lasers bit.

First off, clean up your quotes better.

Second. Whatever. Show me evidence that they can't hold off the weaponry.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-11-21 03:24pm

Does the air shield have a temperature of Absolute Zero?

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-21 08:37pm

consequences wrote:Does the air shield have a temperature of Absolute Zero?

Why would it have to? Science doesn't matter, remember?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-11-21 08:47pm

-sniffs- I swear, you people have no imagination at all.

I remember in book 5 rand forms a sheild that stops everything, specifically said. considerign he's fighting rahvin at the time, a mage who can do a might more damage then most armouries, channelers have at least some defense capabilities.

but, your assuming he is going to stand there for all the weapons of an army to shoot at him, which is really not what asha'man are good for. their super artillery in a medieval world, but they have to be more subtle against that kind of firepower.

use a weave of spirit, so that you arent worthy of people's attention, like a gray man. walk past sentries. use a weave of air for invisibility. there are prolly other ways to see a man, I'm not famaliar with the people their fighting, but there's likely a defense against it.

then you can wander about. a little compulsion, and a commander throws away his forces. a tied off fireball weave, so you can launch heat waves like a nuke, and then travel away before they reply. there are *so* many weaves you can use against a modern society.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-21 08:52pm

Ooh! Illusion would be a good one, too! Plus, if they have Dreamwalkers, well, then they can be quite useful!

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-11-21 08:55pm

oh, hell yes. I forget about that one. dreamwalkers would screw over any war.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-21 08:56pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:oh, hell yes. I forget about that one. dreamwalkers would screw over any war.

Yes, if humans in the modern world could enter Tel'aran'rhiod, then they would be even worse off....

But again with the Compulsion....they could make generals nuke themselves...

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-11-21 08:59pm

riskier, tho. you have to get to the generals inside all that secuirty.

though, during the war of power, you could change people's allegiances in the dreamworld. draw them out, torture them, break them. or draw them out, compel them. either way, you've got enemy fleets self destructing like there's no tomororw.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-21 09:03pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:riskier, tho. you have to get to the generals inside all that secuirty.

though, during the war of power, you could change people's allegiances in the dreamworld. draw them out, torture them, break them. or draw them out, compel them. either way, you've got enemy fleets self destructing like there's no tomororw.

This is true...

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-11-22 12:27am

Bun-Bun kills them all!*

[size=small]* And no, it's not off topic![/size]

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-22 09:45am

Enforcer Talen wrote:-sniffs- I swear, you people have no imagination at all.

I remember in book 5 rand forms a sheild that stops everything, specifically said. considerign he's fighting rahvin at the time, a mage who can do a might more damage then most armouries, channelers have at least some defense capabilities.

And? The smallest regular posleen troop formation would be easily more destructive than almost any WoT army. Of course there is the matter of:

a.) whether or not that shield blocks light, if not he still gets sawed in half by the first happy postie with a laser

b.) whether any of the asha'man present are strong enough to make one.

but, your assuming he is going to stand there for all the weapons of an army to shoot at him, which is really not what asha'man are good for. their super artillery in a medieval world, but they have to be more subtle against that kind of firepower.

Of course the posties have a lot better range than any archer.

use a weave of spirit, so that you arent worthy of people's attention, like a gray man. walk past sentries. use a weave of air for invisibility. there are prolly other ways to see a man, I'm not famaliar with the people their fighting, but there's likely a defense against it.

God-King saucer's sensors detect him, auto-target and fire.

then you can wander about. a little compulsion, and a commander throws away his forces. a tied off fireball weave, so you can launch heat waves like a nuke, and then travel away before they reply. there are *so* many weaves you can use against a modern society.

Where has ANY fire weave matched a nuke? Please point me towards where this has ever occured.

And Posleen God-Kings already spend their troops like water.

And this is of course assuming he doesn't run afoul of a five percenter and get swatted by an anti-starship plasma cannon.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-22 09:50am

You avoided the Compulsion and Dreamwalking, it seems to me (or maybe you're still goin through the posts?). Compulsion is putting someone under their will, meaning that they can warrant the commanders/generals/whatever to fight amongst each other.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-11-22 10:05am

verilon wrote:You avoided the Compulsion and Dreamwalking, it seems to me (or maybe you're still goin through the posts?). Compulsion is putting someone under their will, meaning that they can warrant the commanders/generals/whatever to fight amongst each other.

1.) How many Asha'man actually know how to do this? Compulsion is an ability for subtle moves and infiltration, not the wholesale destruction the Asha'man are trained for.

2.) We're talking about aliens here. Ones who DON'T speak the same language, and wouldn't understand any of the commands you gave them in the first place (provided while they don't find their head blown off by a hungry normal)

As for Dreamwalking, Posties may not even dream for all we know, and if they do, consider:

1.) How many Asha'man do you think would actually be trained to dreamwalk? Remember that whole lesson the Aiel wise ones gave Egwene and co. about just how damn dangerous a practice it is?

2.) If going into the mind of a human is dangerous what do you think it's going to be like with an alien?