Light Sabre tech in ep3

[Sean Howard]

I remember reading a long evaluation of what properties light sabres must have according to how they perform in the movies. It was about a year ago, if anyone could point me to it, I'd be grateful.

Anyway, one of the basic premises established early on was that the shaft of light must not contain any physical component. As in, there isn't a glass rod inside the light shaft that heats up or something like that.

I did notice something in ep3 that I hadn't ever seen happen in any other light sabre battles. They started running people through, rather than slicing them. At least one time I remember seeing the old run the guy through, then step on him to pull your sword out thing.

Wouldn't that indicate that there is, in fact, some sort of physical component in order for it to get stuck like that?

[Perinquus]

ROTS is not the first time we see people run through. Qui Gon got run through by Darth Maul in TPM. And while it wasn't a person, we saw Qui Gon insert his saber to the hilt in a blast door, which was a stabbing motion.

Why do you think there needs to be a physical component to the blade for this? The best explanation I have ever heard of how a saber works came from Robert Brown's website. There were several explanations explored there, and the best one was that the blade consists of a long, thin, rod-shaped force field, which is rotated at zillion RPM. The outer edges are rotating so fast that they are nearing the speed of light, and are throwing off photons (hence the glow), and the hum comes from the spinning blade's contact with the air. Could such a thing ever be possible in reality? Meh... who knows? But it sounds plausible enough, and it explains why they block blaster bolts, cast a shadow, glow, hum, block other sabers, cur through anything, etc.

[Knife]

ROTS is not the first time we see people run through. Qui Gon got run through by Darth Maul in TPM. And while it wasn't a person, we saw Qui Gon insert his saber to the hilt in a blast door, which was a stabbing motion.

Why do you think there needs to be a physical component to the blade for this? The best explanation I have ever heard of how a saber works came from Robert Brown's website. There were several explanations explored there, and the best one was that the blade consists of a long, thin, rod-shaped force field, which is rotated at zillion RPM. The outer edges are rotating so fast that they are nearing the speed of light, and are throwing off photons (hence the glow), and the hum comes from the spinning blade's contact with the air. Could such a thing ever be possible in reality? Meh... who knows? But it sounds plausible enough, and it explains why they block blaster bolts, cast a shadow, glow, hum, block other sabers, cur through anything, etc.

I remember reading that too, I believe the theory was that it sheared through matter by ripping the matter apart rather than cutting it some how. This produced the heat we see in TPM while a lightsaber is cutting through a door, droid, ect.

I know I liked that explanation better than the 'arc wave' thingy, what ever the hell that was.

Some one here has BB's site archived, maybe they'll post that bit.

[Ender]

ROTS is not the first time we see people run through. Qui Gon got run through by Darth Maul in TPM. And while it wasn't a person, we saw Qui Gon insert his saber to the hilt in a blast door, which was a stabbing motion.

Why do you think there needs to be a physical component to the blade for this? The best explanation I have ever heard of how a saber works came from Robert Brown's website. There were several explanations explored there, and the best one was that the blade consists of a long, thin, rod-shaped force field, which is rotated at zillion RPM. The outer edges are rotating so fast that they are nearing the speed of light, and are throwing off photons (hence the glow), and the hum comes from the spinning blade's contact with the air. Could such a thing ever be possible in reality? Meh... who knows? But it sounds plausible enough, and it explains why they block blaster bolts, cast a shadow, glow, hum, block other sabers, cur through anything, etc.

Bob Brown's sabre concept violated Conservation of Energy IIRC. They are briefly described as standing waves of energy in the ROTS ICS. Basically, it's the damaging portion of a TL blast in permenant ripple status, contained by a shield like mechanism.

[Perinquus]

ROTS is not the first time we see people run through. Qui Gon got run through by Darth Maul in TPM. And while it wasn't a person, we saw Qui Gon insert his saber to the hilt in a blast door, which was a stabbing motion.

Why do you think there needs to be a physical component to the blade for this? The best explanation I have ever heard of how a saber works came from Robert Brown's website. There were several explanations explored there, and the best one was that the blade consists of a long, thin, rod-shaped force field, which is rotated at zillion RPM. The outer edges are rotating so fast that they are nearing the speed of light, and are throwing off photons (hence the glow), and the hum comes from the spinning blade's contact with the air. Could such a thing ever be possible in reality? Meh... who knows? But it sounds plausible enough, and it explains why they block blaster bolts, cast a shadow, glow, hum, block other sabers, cur through anything, etc.

Bob Brown's sabre concept violated Conservation of Energy IIRC. They are briefly described as standing waves of energy in the ROTS ICS. Basically, it's the damaging portion of a TL blast in permenant ripple status, contained by a shield like mechanism.

How does it violate conservation of energy?

[Sean Howard]

Why do you think there needs to be a physical component to the blade for this?

For it to get stuck. The cutting and poking parts I don't have a problem with, I just don't understand how pure energy could get snagged on something.

I'll go find that Rob Brown site, that sounds interesting. Thanks!

[Admiral Valdemar]

Why do you think there needs to be a physical component to the blade for this?

For it to get stuck. The cutting and poking parts I don't have a problem with, I just don't understand how pure energy could get snagged on something.

I'll go find that Rob Brown site, that sounds interesting. Thanks!

Even a lightsabre encounters some resistance. Qui-Gon encountered obvious problems cutting through those blast doors when they were fully closed and Yoda's lightsabre being flung into that Clonie and then grabbed as he fell was likely due to the armour helping stop the blade cut down without applied force.

[Knife]

Why do you think there needs to be a physical component to the blade for this?

For it to get stuck. The cutting and poking parts I don't have a problem with, I just don't understand how pure energy could get snagged on something.

I'll go find that Rob Brown site, that sounds interesting. Thanks!

That Clone trooper reached up and grabbed the hilt when he was skewered in front of the temple.

Oh, and http://web.archive.org/web/200106052246 ... abres4.htm

That Lightsaber 'how's it work' that Per and I like;

MODEL SIX: virtual light produced from a spinning field surface
The idea & physics behind, this model supplied by the incredible Mr Albert Forge.
This model is similar to model five, but is FAR more solidly based in REAL physics, and is a FAR better match for the observed sabre (and blaster) behaviours! It provides a theoretical answer to ''where does the 'stuff' of the blade come from'' *AND* actually NEEDS both a fields AND rotation!

According to astrophysicist Yakov Borisovich Zel'dovich, a rapidly spinning conductor will cause the creation of virtual particle radiation at its surface. Particle production is controlled by the charge, angular velocity (of rotation) and radius of this charged conductor.

If we imagine a rod shaped charged field of atomic-scale cross-section, which is superconducting and rotating at near-lightspeed, then charge regulation becomes the control for the particle emission type and quantity. Such charged fields would tend to repel one-another (if they are of like polarity), which means the blades would BLOCK one another.

NOTE: a sabre would have to be built carefully and tuned correctly! A badly adjusted sabre would subject its user (and everyone in range) with considerable amounts of gamma radiation!.

The glow of the sabre blade consists of virtual-photons energised by the rotating field into real photons ... virtual light make real! The opaque 'thumb-thick' blade shape may be a swirl of ionised atmospheric particles (the AIR) drawn in and swirling about the core. When you IONISE a gas, you actually have a PLASMA (as it is meant by terrestrial physics) ... and this would glow JUST LIKE A FLUORESCENT TUBE (which is ALSO a plasma!) ... BUT this thumb-thick plasma zone is merely a by-product ... the REAL cutting is performed by minuscule core of the true blade ... leaving almost microscopically thin cuts. (The blade would STILL glow fiercely in even in a vacuum, as it throws off 'virtual photons - made real' ... but the thumb-thick core may not be visible.)

Such a tight rapidly spinning charged superconducting field would rend (tear) through most matter by stripping off electrons which bind atoms together. The ionized matter about the 'cut', as well as field-excited atomic movement in the localized area of the 'cut', would mimic great point-of-contact heat. A wound to a soft-tissue organic being would appear to be a microscopically thin BURN - and such a wound would usually tend to be cauterized (depending on how slowly the blade passed through - a large blood vessel cut too quickly may not be sufficiently 'burned' to cauterize).

Dense metals which have loosely bound electrons (which are free to wander about their lattice structure) would be more resistant to cutting. The 'atom stripping' effect would take a little longer to cut through, because such materials have more electrons 'to spare' before their lattice structure becomes 'torn'. Metals are also more highly conductive, and the localized 'heat' effects are minimized because the heat is carried away and dispersed through the material more quickly.

This means that even though with varying amounts of effort, a lightsabre could cut through virtually anything, some materials would offer more resistance to a sabre blade, and therefore we can now understand how Lord Vader's armour was able to ward off most of Luke's glancing blow, saving his life.

[Ender]

ROTS is not the first time we see people run through. Qui Gon got run through by Darth Maul in TPM. And while it wasn't a person, we saw Qui Gon insert his saber to the hilt in a blast door, which was a stabbing motion.

Why do you think there needs to be a physical component to the blade for this? The best explanation I have ever heard of how a saber works came from Robert Brown's website. There were several explanations explored there, and the best one was that the blade consists of a long, thin, rod-shaped force field, which is rotated at zillion RPM. The outer edges are rotating so fast that they are nearing the speed of light, and are throwing off photons (hence the glow), and the hum comes from the spinning blade's contact with the air. Could such a thing ever be possible in reality? Meh... who knows? But it sounds plausible enough, and it explains why they block blaster bolts, cast a shadow, glow, hum, block other sabers, cur through anything, etc.

Bob Brown's sabre concept violated Conservation of Energy IIRC. They are briefly described as standing waves of energy in the ROTS ICS. Basically, it's the damaging portion of a TL blast in permenant ripple status, contained by a shield like mechanism.

How does it violate conservation of energy?

the shearing of atomic bonds without applying said energy to shear bonds.

That and it lacks the atmospheric effects one would see if you had something simmilar to what BB describes.

[Molyneux]

Why do you think there needs to be a physical component to the blade for this?

For it to get stuck. The cutting and poking parts I don't have a problem with, I just don't understand how pure energy could get snagged on something.

I'll go find that Rob Brown site, that sounds interesting. Thanks!

That Clone trooper reached up and grabbed the hilt when he was skewered in front of the temple.

Oh, and http://web.archive.org/web/200106052246 ... abres4.htm

That Lightsaber 'how's it work' that Per and I like;

MODEL SIX: virtual light produced from a spinning field surface
The idea & physics behind, this model supplied by the incredible Mr Albert Forge.
This model is similar to model five, but is FAR more solidly based in REAL physics, and is a FAR better match for the observed sabre (and blaster) behaviours! It provides a theoretical answer to ''where does the 'stuff' of the blade come from'' *AND* actually NEEDS both a fields AND rotation!

According to astrophysicist Yakov Borisovich Zel'dovich, a rapidly spinning conductor will cause the creation of virtual particle radiation at its surface. Particle production is controlled by the charge, angular velocity (of rotation) and radius of this charged conductor.

If we imagine a rod shaped charged field of atomic-scale cross-section, which is superconducting and rotating at near-lightspeed, then charge regulation becomes the control for the particle emission type and quantity. Such charged fields would tend to repel one-another (if they are of like polarity), which means the blades would BLOCK one another.

NOTE: a sabre would have to be built carefully and tuned correctly! A badly adjusted sabre would subject its user (and everyone in range) with considerable amounts of gamma radiation!.

The glow of the sabre blade consists of virtual-photons energised by the rotating field into real photons ... virtual light make real! The opaque 'thumb-thick' blade shape may be a swirl of ionised atmospheric particles (the AIR) drawn in and swirling about the core. When you IONISE a gas, you actually have a PLASMA (as it is meant by terrestrial physics) ... and this would glow JUST LIKE A FLUORESCENT TUBE (which is ALSO a plasma!) ... BUT this thumb-thick plasma zone is merely a by-product ... the REAL cutting is performed by minuscule core of the true blade ... leaving almost microscopically thin cuts. (The blade would STILL glow fiercely in even in a vacuum, as it throws off 'virtual photons - made real' ... but the thumb-thick core may not be visible.)

Such a tight rapidly spinning charged superconducting field would rend (tear) through most matter by stripping off electrons which bind atoms together. The ionized matter about the 'cut', as well as field-excited atomic movement in the localized area of the 'cut', would mimic great point-of-contact heat. A wound to a soft-tissue organic being would appear to be a microscopically thin BURN - and such a wound would usually tend to be cauterized (depending on how slowly the blade passed through - a large blood vessel cut too quickly may not be sufficiently 'burned' to cauterize).

Dense metals which have loosely bound electrons (which are free to wander about their lattice structure) would be more resistant to cutting. The 'atom stripping' effect would take a little longer to cut through, because such materials have more electrons 'to spare' before their lattice structure becomes 'torn'. Metals are also more highly conductive, and the localized 'heat' effects are minimized because the heat is carried away and dispersed through the material more quickly.

This means that even though with varying amounts of effort, a lightsabre could cut through virtually anything, some materials would offer more resistance to a sabre blade, and therefore we can now understand how Lord Vader's armour was able to ward off most of Luke's glancing blow, saving his life.

Okay...I know next to nothing about high-energy physics, but at the least, that sounds pretty plausible.

[Perinquus]

Bob Brown's sabre concept violated Conservation of Energy IIRC. They are briefly described as standing waves of energy in the ROTS ICS. Basically, it's the damaging portion of a TL blast in permenant ripple status, contained by a shield like mechanism.

How does it violate conservation of energy?

the shearing of atomic bonds without applying said energy to shear bonds.

That and it lacks the atmospheric effects one would see if you had something simmilar to what BB describes.

It's still the best explanation anyone's come up with, in that it's most consistent with all the observed characteristics of a lightsaber. Maybe it doesn't cut by shearing atomic bonds. A rod spinning at the speeds describes would still cut most anything. Or maybe a little more energy is applied from the power cell to shear atomic bonds.

[Knife]

the shearing of atomic bonds without applying said energy to shear bonds.

That and it lacks the atmospheric effects one would see if you had something simmilar to what BB describes.

Could it not apply more power from the power cell as it encounters matter and or more matter until it gets to the point where the power cell doesn't have enough 'umph' to cut it?




Edited to fix quote tags.

[Admiral Valdemar]

In wouldn't mind a real lightsabre, but I'd imagine it easier to create an ultrasonic blade rather or one that is rapidly heated to high temperatures.

[Cykeisme]

the shearing of atomic bonds without applying said energy to shear bonds.

Hrm, are you sure?

The power output of a lightsaber is fixed. This is why when it cuts through materials with stronger atomic and/or molecular bonds, thus requiring a greater amount of energy for a given surface area that is cut, it takes longer.

This manifests itself in the user actually feeling varying levels of physical resistance from material that takes time to cut. I mentally picture it to feel like using a hot soldering iron to cut through a piece of plastic... there's still resistance, but you can push through it slowly.

Am I the only one who thinks that Qui-Gon was actually applying force to push the lightsaber down while cutting the door, rather than just holding it in there to melt it?

In wouldn't mind a real lightsabre, but I'd imagine it easier to create an ultrasonic blade rather or one that is rapidly heated to high temperatures.

I've never heard a realistic analysis of "vibroblades".. do they actually do anything?
I can say with some certainty that a blade that is heated to high temperatures is a bad idea. You'll just make your blade soft and malleable!

[Cykeisme]

Oops.