Palpy putting Ani in the suit so quickly: deliberate?

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-05-23 01:11pm

now, we have all wondered why Sidious put Vader in the suit, rather than a bacta tank immediately after the battle. The RL explanation, of course, is that Lucas wanted the scenes side by side, but here's what I'm wondering. Palpy was threatened by Vader and didn't want to go the way of his own master, so it would make sense for him to weaken him to a point where he's no longer a threat, especially since the Jedi are now gone. So, I'm thinking that Vader was put in the suit so soon after the battle deliberately, to be kept weak and controlled.

What do you think?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Mr. T · Post by **Mr. T** » 2005-05-23 01:35pm

But how does the suit weaken him? I thought it gave him superior eye-sight, hearing etc. He obviously had some trouble moving around and walking when he first got off the medical table, but once he got experienced in the suit he didn't seem unable to perform any physical tasks that a regular human could do, both at the very end of ROTS on the stardestroyer and in the OT trilogy.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-05-23 01:37pm

The cure all abilities of Bacta is probably an EU brain bug.

Sephirius · Post by **Sephirius** » 2005-05-23 01:47pm

and last I remembered, bacta can't heal missing limbs and or burned lungs. he probably was put in bacta to heal his external injuries, then the suit.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-05-23 02:02pm

Sephirius wrote:and last I remembered, bacta can't heal missing limbs and or burned lungs. he probably was put in bacta to heal his external injuries, then the suit.

No.. recall seeing a droid arm removing patches of burnt skin from him in the scene.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-05-23 02:09pm

I think it was deliberate. What better was to have a powerful appretice that to have him in a position that I can push a switch and remind him who is boss.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2005-05-23 02:10pm

I think Palpy did let Anakin have the pain on propose. The pain would make him even more angry, he would be weaker andnot a threat, and it would be a good lesson what could happen if he dares to doublecross the Emperor.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-05-23 02:14pm

That doesn't make any sense at all when you consider that he was basically orgasming that he snagged the most powerful Jedi in the Order and he bragged to Yoda that Vader would be more powerful than either of them. So...why suddenly want to weaken him down?

Palpatine seems to WANT an apprentice that will bitch slap him eventually from what we gathered in ROTS. At one point virtually begging Anakin "Use me, use the knowledge I have, I beg you." He tosses aside Vader for Luke who just handed a Sith lord with 20 years experience and power his ass. Luke would be fucking dangerous for Palpatine but he revelled in that fact.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-05-23 02:34pm

Seems to me that Palpatine's intention was the formation of a Sith dynasty and a large part of his grand design as a devout practitioner of the dark side was to find and groom the best possible Sith apprentice as an heir to succeed his rule (one way or another).

I rather prefer this over the EU crap about Palpatine's immortality.

Glimmervoid · Post by **Glimmervoid** » 2005-05-23 02:42pm

It could be as simple as Anakin be allergic to bacta like some people to day are allergic to penicillin (I am just drawing a parallel between common medical stuff.).

But I personally like the idea of it being done without bacta as a sort of lesson to him, to increase his anger and bring him further to the dark side.

Also no were in the EU (TMK) is bacta able to re-grow lost limbs.

As to immortal palps is it possible he has not started that project by ROTS or it was in such an early stage that he did not know whether it would work.

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2005-05-23 03:20pm

LadyTevar wrote:
Sephirius wrote:and last I remembered, bacta can't heal missing limbs and or burned lungs. he probably was put in bacta to heal his external injuries, then the suit.
No.. recall seeing a droid arm removing patches of burnt skin from him in the scene.

I think those were robe remnants, not skin.

EDIT: Grammar

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-23 03:23pm

Galvatron wrote:Seems to me that Palpatine's intention was the formation of a Sith dynasty and a large part of his grand design as a devout practitioner of the dark side was to find and groom the best possible Sith apprentice as an heir to succeed his rule (one way or another).

I rather prefer this over the EU crap about Palpatine's immortality.

Has it ever occured to you that Palpatine's motives may have changed over time. Consider, before becoming the ultimant power in the universe, Sidious may have been thinking like every other sith for a millenia (IE must train apprentice to continue our quest to eradicate the Jedi) but when he finally wipes out most of the Jedi and becomes Emperor he may like what he sees, and rather than ensure a hier, begin to look for ways to strech his life out indefinately.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-23 03:50pm

My question is why they had this rather nasty looking suit of life-support armor just laying around. Did Palpatine message ahead and order the helmet and all custom-fabricated while they were flying in?

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-05-23 04:11pm

Maybe the suit was intended to be worn by Vader anyway, though just as armour? And the life support components were added in later.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-23 04:15pm

YT300000 wrote:Maybe the suit was intended to be worn by Vader anyway, though just as armour? And the life support components were added in later.

Interesting theory. If Palpatine regarded Anakin as his true apprentice, with Dooku as a throwaway stopgap, he could've had it waiting.

I could see the hasty alteration job going on with that...

"Okay, we need to lengthen the legs now."

Otherwise we have Palpatine sketching hastily on the shuttle. "The helmet should be... just so."

"Excellent drawing, your majesty."

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-05-23 04:28pm

Lets keep in mind a few things about Anakin's condition:

1) He's suffered third degree, deep tissues burns over damn near his whole surviving body. He was the next best thing to roasted alive and that's a horrific condition for the body. Burns are the worst possible injury from a medical stand point; they rarely heal well and almost always infect. And it seems his lungs were among those things crisped; any healing tech is going to have a hard time dealing with that. He should by all rights have been dead from that alone.

2) Aside from his arm and the spinal cord injuries, he suffered all the injuries Curtis Saxton catalouged in that fight. He's probably deep in shock, probably lethally so to any other human being. That's going to have horrific affects when combined with injuries that extensive.

3) Anakin had a few hours of blood loss, shock, burns, and other affects to work him over. Palpatine could not have arrived that quickly, a few hours mostly likely. Supposedly only the Force and his own hate kept him alive. Again, not the best news for healing.

It's my contention that Vader was simply too injured, too much accumulated injury for them to attempt to heal him then or ever afterwards. There was little left of him and you'll note they pretty much put him in stasis on the spot. No doubt they looked him over on the flight and in the clinic. That not transplants were even attempted suggests his health and his immune system are simply not resilient enough to deal with the trauma. He probably would have flat out died had they not hooked him up immediately.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-05-23 04:30pm

Petrosjko wrote:My question is why they had this rather nasty looking suit of life-support armor just laying around. Did Palpatine message ahead and order the helmet and all custom-fabricated while they were flying in?

It's not necessarily all custom. A lot of it seems to be standard medical technology. There have been EU instanced of life support gear of similar extent and function.

And the armor could and probably was some relic or premade stuff. A lot of it also seems to be similar to clone-trooper armor and Anakin's own Jedi gear. So my guess would be it's just armor that was around and could be put to that use.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-05-23 04:32pm

Stormbringer wrote:3) Anakin had a few hours of blood loss, shock, burns, and other affects to work him over. Palpatine could not have arrived that quickly, a few hours mostly likely. Supposedly only the Force and his own hate kept him alive. Again, not the best news for healing.

According to the novelization, Palpy arrived as Obi-Wan was leaving with Padme.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-05-23 04:43pm

Iceberg wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:3) Anakin had a few hours of blood loss, shock, burns, and other affects to work him over. Palpatine could not have arrived that quickly, a few hours mostly likely. Supposedly only the Force and his own hate kept him alive. Again, not the best news for healing.
According to the novelization, Palpy arrived as Obi-Wan was leaving with Padme.

If you say so. It seemed the timing was a bit different to me in the movie. Not to mention it's less problematic.

Still, in the end Anakin was left with injuries that probably should have killed him immediately. So it's not a good thing.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-23 06:30pm

Perhaps the suit's "life support systems" include the administration of bacta or some similar healing compound in addition to the assisted-breathing apparatus?

SoD aside, I'd just toss the EU immortality-wank idea right out the window. The writer's intention is that, as with every preceding Sith Lord, Palpatine was searching for as powerful a successor as possible, to continue the galaxy-wide rule of the Sith for eternity.

Glimmervoid · Post by **Glimmervoid** » 2005-05-23 06:54pm

Cykeisme wrote:Perhaps the suit's "life support systems" include the administration of bacta or some similar healing compound in addition to the assisted-breathing apparatus?

SoD aside, I'd just toss the EU immortality-wank idea right out the window. The writer's intention is that, as with every preceding Sith Lord, Palpatine was searching for as powerful a successor as possible, to continue the galaxy-wide rule of the Sith for eternity.

No it just means he had not thought of being immortal in that way yet (even in the film palps was interested in immortality) or he did not know if it would work yet.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2005-05-23 07:04pm

Petrosjko wrote:
YT300000 wrote:Maybe the suit was intended to be worn by Vader anyway, though just as armour? And the life support components were added in later.
Interesting theory. If Palpatine regarded Anakin as his true apprentice, with Dooku as a throwaway stopgap, he could've had it waiting.

I could see the hasty alteration job going on with that...

"Okay, we need to lengthen the legs now."

Otherwise we have Palpatine sketching hastily on the shuttle. "The helmet should be... just so."

"Excellent drawing, your majesty."

Haha, just reminded me of the line from the Darthside blog about the Emperor designing all of the uniforms used in the empire.

ANyway, simple reason to get him in the suit is that you need him at your side IMMEADIETLY in case some Rogue Jedi decide to come at you again. Doing this the clean way isn't going to help you in the long run, doing this immeadietly helps you immensley now that you can actually use Vader as a tool to keep anyone else from throwing a wrench into your machinery.

Myrmidon · Post by **Myrmidon** » 2005-05-23 09:39pm

Palpy can't afford to seem personally cruel as Emperor, lest he drive his subjects to rebellion. So he creates a merciless golem, a terror fit to keep his subjects up at night. The only way to control Vader is to beg Palpy to reign him in. Stalin and every other bad guy in history created their own monsters and in each case, the people blamed the monster, not its creator.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2005-05-23 09:43pm

in the d20 book, they talk about how the suit provides vader with an alchemical mix provided by palpy.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2005-05-23 10:01pm

Did anyone else notice the suit does NOT have the Hebrew letters from the original trilogy? It may not be exactly the same suit Vader wears in the OT, or the letters may have been added later for some unknown reason.