Padme - Bad Mother?

[Stravo]

Let's see...the droid EXPLICITLY states there is nothing physically wrong with her. She has simply lost the will to live. You want to try and spin out an explanation over a stated conclusion in the movie?

So says the droid. It's clear that droids are not fully competent in assessing reality, especially when it comes to things affected by the force. The weapon analysis droids in AOTC couldn't even fucking tell the saber dart was Kaminoan due to a couple changes in its shape. "If droids could think, there would be none of us, now would there?"

It doesn't take a genius to see, there's nothing wrong with her, yet she's not fighting to live, ergo NO WILL TO LIVE. In fact she's going down so fast we've got to rip these children out of her.

Once again I repeat the challenge. If Yoda can will himself to stay alive long enough to train luke why is it impossible to believe that she willed herself to die? Instead you have to construct a lame ass "Life Force Sucking Power"tm that Vader has never exhibit and does not exhibit ever again and would prove DAMN useful in trying to achieve immortality dontcha think?

She didn't want to live anymore, her body functions were failing despite the fact that there was nothing wrong with them ergo she willed herself to die. We can blieve that Yoda can will himself to live long enough to train Luke but the minute it makes Padme look like a selfish twat suddenly "That's imposdsible man." Its also impossible to move rocks by will alone yet I see it in every fucking movie set in that universe.

Darth Sidious EXPLICITLY told Darth Vader that he killed her in his anger. You completely assumed that Padme committed suicide when it's not possible to commit suicide when you're fucking healthy while lying down on a medbed doing absolutely nothing harmful to yourself.

The SAME Darth Sidious that told him his master taught him everything? The SAME Darth Sidious that faked his defeat at Windu's hands? The SAME Darth Sidious that lied to Anakin about knowing how to save people? I think I'll rely on medical droids for a medical diagnosis.

There's absolutely no proof that Vader is siphoning anything off of her. You see a simple cinematic moment of juxtaposition and read into it an ability we have never seen before or since in the films and denied by Vader himself when he doesn't even know where the fuck Padme is or what her state of being is.

While the nature of the manifestation Vader's anger is not stated, I thought it was rather clear that it ended up killing Padme. Whether it was supposedly "siphoning" her or not is irrelevant. Strong attachments to others can affect each other one way or another as observed by Yoda's pain when the Jedis were systematically eliminated by Order 66.

Speaking of which this same Yoda that could detect deaths across a galaxy couldn't detect the "Life Force Sucking Power"tm??

And you said it all - While the nature of the manifestation Vader's anger is not stated, It most certainly is - an entire room is crushed in his rage. No galaxy spanning life sucking power o' doom. A simple telekenetic wave of doom. A power we've seen used over and over not some nebulous half assed power that would prove to be the answer to Palpy's wet dreams.

If you don't like the conclusion drawn for Padme's characterization don't bitch to me. If she was dying because of internal injuries caused by Anakin's force choke then we have a tragedy. Right now as it stands we have a fighter that stormed her palace to take it back, that fought in an arena full of Jedi and lived lying on her back losing the will to live and dying leaving her helpless children on their own.

[JediMaster415]

She didn't want to live anymore, her body functions were failing despite the fact that there was nothing wrong with them ergo she willed herself to die. We can blieve that Yoda can will himself to live long enough to train Luke but the minute it makes Padme look like a selfish twat suddenly "That's imposdsible man." Its also impossible to move rocks by will alone yet I see it in every fucking movie set in that universe.

I'm not trying to get involved in this debate but I just had to comment on this.

You're comparing Padme to the Jedi/Sith here. That's rather unfair to her as the Jedi/Sith can tap into the Force to make their will reality. She can't.

[Stormbringer]

She didn't want to live anymore, her body functions were failing despite the fact that there was nothing wrong with them ergo she willed herself to die. We can blieve that Yoda can will himself to live long enough to train Luke but the minute it makes Padme look like a selfish twat suddenly "That's imposdsible man." Its also impossible to move rocks by will alone yet I see it in every fucking movie set in that universe.

I'm not trying to get involved in this debate but I just had to comment on this.

You're comparing Padme to the Jedi/Sith here. That's rather unfair to her as the Jedi/Sith can tap into the Force to make their will reality. She can't.

No but if you buy that, why should a passive-suicide be so hard to accept?

[Macross]

I personally like the Force explaination.

The Force gives the Jedi his power, one of the powers is precog visions, Anakin had visions of Padme dying in childbirth. And she did die during childbirth. It was the will of the Force. She was fated to die at that moment.

[wolveraptor]

How the fuck do you "lose the will to live"? You can't shut down your own internal organs by will power. Hell, even if you crush your own heart with the Force, you'll likely pass out and lose concentration before you can go through with it. The only way for her to show her lack of will to live would be to refuse to eat, and that was never shown in the movie.

[Zaia]

It's not that big of a stretch to think that Padme lost the will to live from her heart breaking over Anakin, and that her body shut down as her mind and heart shut down. My great-grandmother passed away from illness, and my great-grandfather passed only a month later although he was physically very healthy. He was unbearably depressed after she died, and when he passed away, people talked of how he died of a broken heart.

I don't know the science of medicine, but I do know that the power of the mind is very strong, and if people can tap into it to heal themselves from things doctors say are untreatable, why wouldn't the reverse be true? Why couldn't complete despair of the heart and mind cause the body to shut down?

[Pint0 Xtreme]

It doesn't take a genius to see, there's nothing wrong with her, yet she's not fighting to live, ergo NO WILL TO LIVE. In fact she's going down so fast we've got to rip these children out of her.

Yeah okay, she has no will to live so she's dying even though she's doing jack shit but lying there on the med bed while delivering the babies. She is perfectly healthy but her depression is making her vitality go down at an incredibly drastic rate.

Once again I repeat the challenge. If Yoda can will himself to stay alive long enough to train luke why is it impossible to believe that she willed herself to die?

Uh... Padme isn't force sensitive and thus is much weaker in controlling the nature of life?

Instead you have to construct a lame ass "Life Force Sucking Power"tm that Vader has never exhibit and does not exhibit ever again and would prove DAMN useful in trying to achieve immortality dontcha think?

What the hell are you talking about? I never constructed a lame ass "Life Force sucking power" theorum. HOW Vader did to kill Padme is irrelevant to WHETHER he did or not.

The SAME Darth Sidious that told him his master taught him everything? The SAME Darth Sidious that faked his defeat at Windu's hands? The SAME Darth Sidious that lied to Anakin about knowing how to save people?

First of all, Darth Sidious never claimed his master taught him "everything". So you're lying right off the bat.

Secondly, Darth Sidious lied when it was absolutely necessary for survival and for his goals as do most people. There is no rational REASON to lie about Padme's death. Given your version of the story, Padme died from a "lack of will to live". Why the fuck would Darth Sidious lie to Darth Vader about her death? It's pointless whether or not Sidious even knew she died. You IMMEDIATELY assumed Darth Sidious goes on lying for the pure joy for the mere reason he was a Sith Lord as if all Sith Lords are lying scumbags. As it turns out, "many great truths come from our point of view" and Darth Sidious makes no reservation about his beliefs based on his point of view and revealing the nature of the dark side.

I think I'll rely on medical droids for a medical diagnosis.

Just like weapon diagnosis on the Kaminoan saber dart?

Speaking of which this same Yoda that could detect deaths across a galaxy couldn't detect the "Life Force Sucking Power"tm??

Never said anything about a "Life Force Sucking Power".

And you said it all - While the nature of the manifestation Vader's anger is not stated, It most certainly is - an entire room is crushed in his rage. No galaxy spanning life sucking power o' doom. A simple telekenetic wave of doom. A power we've seen used over and over not some nebulous half assed power that would prove to be the answer to Palpy's wet dreams.

So Vader's telekenetic wave of doom AFTER Padme died == Vader's anger had no effect on Padme DURING both surgery and child birth.

If you don't like the conclusion drawn for Padme's characterization don't bitch to me. If she was dying because of internal injuries caused by Anakin's force choke then we have a tragedy. Right now as it stands we have a fighter that stormed her palace to take it back, that fought in an arena full of Jedi and lived lying on her back losing the will to live and dying leaving her helpless children on their own.

I'm not bitching at you because on the mere basis of a shitty conclusion. I'm bitching at you for your refusal to acknowledge the evidence against your conclusion. As it stands as of now, Vader'a defeat at Mustafar caused an immense pain and anger, which manifested itself during his surgery and somehow killed Padme during childbirth.

[avatarxprime]

Didn't the med droid say that she had lost the will to live before they started the operation on Anakin? I watched the movie at the midnight showing, so it's been a while and I could be wrong. Anyway, I think that the "diagnosis" of her losing the will the live might actually be accurate. When Anakin was force choking her, he was doing it out of anger, rage, hurt, and the feeling of abandonment. Working with the two of them being linked by the force, is it so far out there that he ended up transferring some of these feelings into Padme as he chocked her? Then all of this darkside influence could have resulted in her not wanting to live anymore.