Women and ROTS

[Stravo]

I watched ROTS with my best freind. She enjoyed the movie even though she's not a fan anywhere near the level that most of us are. Its always nice to watch these movies with someone not as into the story as I am.

Anyway, we're having a big breakfast after the movie (7:30am showing) and I'm jabbering about how cool it was here and there when she says "Aside from Padme can you think of any other women in that movie?"

I paused for a moment.

"Well there was Ayla Secura." I offered.

"Who?"

"The blue skinned Jedi woman."

"Oh, you mean the one that appeared for about 8 seconds and gets wasted while the other funky looking Jedi gets to at least put up a fight before dying? That one?"

I nodded weakly.

"and about Padme..." and she proceeded to complain about how Padme was just 'there." She didn't do much except look beautiful and be the reason for Anakin's fall. She complained that in her view it was uncomfortably close to the whole Eve storyline where the otherwise good Adam is led to sin by his love of woman. If not for Padme Anakin would not have fallen because he felt a need to 'save' his helpless woman.

"And wasn't she blasting stuff in the last two movies?"

"Uhh...she was pregnant?"

"So she was a walking womb in this movie?"

"Why do you bring me down bitch?" (Because we have it like that )

Now she's no feminazi by any stretch but it clearly bothered her. It began to bother me when she started outlining it for me. I know I have a glaring weakness when it comes to recognizing woman issues both at work and in movies.

So I ask you, what are your views of the lack of women in the ROTS and frankly the prequels in general.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Don't forget the OT as well.

My view is that I shrug my shoulders and just watch the movie. I don't think it's an issue.

[Darth Wong]

The way she dismissed Padme's pregnancy as an inhibitor to her activity level makes me suspect that she's never had any children of her own. Rebecca had no problem at all with the portrayal of Padme in this film.

And where exactly would your friend have wanted to insert another female character anyway? What necessity was there for such a character in the plot? To add one simply for the sake of having one?

[Zaia]

I saw the movie with my brother, and I complained about Padme sitting around a fucking couch all the time, doing absolutely NOTHING, except waiting for Anakin to come home. There were a couple of shots of her just sitting, hands folded across her pregnant stomach. Then, on the more exciting parts, she'd get up and walk somewhere. Ooooh. Thrilling. She didn't even say anything passionate, and her loving dialogues with Anakin made me want to wretch. It was like the stuff I'd liked about her in the earlier movies had evaporated.

That was really goddamn annoying.

And the blue-skinned Jedi chick, who was the only other woman I could really think of too, she didn't even get a chance to fight back because she was too slow. Her attackers had her down before she had even drawn her saber. What the hell? Everyone else had at least some chance to fight back.

That was mildly annoying.

Edit: Spelling again! Gah.

[Joe]

How is Padme like Eve? She's certainly not directly responsible for Anakin embracing the dark side, he did that on his own.

[Stravo]

The way she dismissed Padme's pregnancy as an inhibitor to her activity level makes me suspect that she's never had any children of her own. Rebecca had no problem at all with the portrayal of Padme in this film.

She's never had children. Having experienced what pregnancy can do to a woman I had no problems with Padme not being a warrior senator - point in fact THAT would have bugged the shit out of me.

And where exactly would your friend have wanted to insert another female character anyway? What necessity was there for such a character in the plot? To add one simply for the sake of having one?

I guess there's the rub. The story itself was basically set in 77, we start seeing a female Jedi Master that we never heare of before helping to save Padme or fight off Anakin it starts to smell.

But there is the rather telling lack of even incidental females. Look at the younglings - all boys (from what we can see) and I think the only female Jedi we see is Ayla who is taken down in 8 seconds of screen time. Couldn't ONE of the 4 Jedi masters that goes arrest Palpatine been a woman for example?

And the one that gets me that I never realized before examining this stoery is the whole Padme as Eve angle. She is the reason for his downfall.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Yeah, it's his own personal lust for power/fear of loss thing.

You're friend likes to read shit into stuff, Stravo...

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Additionally, Padme had to be pregnant for story purposes.

[Straha]

I think Padme had more action in the script, along with Mon Mothma, but the formation of the rebellion scenes got cut, so.... she got left with the dregs.

But, aside from that, the story was basically already written, so where can you shoe-horn another few females into the script?

[Stravo]

Yeah, it's his own personal lust for power/fear of loss thing.

You're friend likes to read shit into stuff, Stravo...

Intersting...you can read all kinds of shit into movies as a cinema major (IIRC) but some lay person non Star Wars fan reacts to what she percieves from her POV and its now "reading shit into the stuff".


I'm not a woman so none of this really struck me. Looking at it through a woman's eyes you see things as a guy you take for granted.

[Darth Wong]

Padme never did anything wrong, nor did she "tempt" anyone into anything. She's hardly Eve. Anakin is just a panicky, self-centred prick. And Padme's tendency to go off and sulk by herself is only unbelievable to someone who's never been around a pregnant woman.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Yeah, it's his own personal lust for power/fear of loss thing.

You're friend likes to read shit into stuff, Stravo...

Intersting...you can read all kinds of shit into movies as a cinema major (IIRC) but some lay person non Star Wars fan reacts to what she percieves from her POV and its now "reading shit into the stuff".

Yeah, I'm a cinema major, but I'm also a very cautious one, more so than most.

Comparing Padme to Eve just comes out of nowhere, and basically made up.

[Stravo]

Padme never did anything wrong, nor did she "tempt" anyone into anything. She's hardly Eve. Anakin is just a panicky, self-centred prick. And Padme's tendency to go off and sulk by herself is only unbelievable to someone who's never been around a pregnant woman.

I imagine if we look at it from the POV that if not to save Padme Anakin would not have turned then there's something to this view of Padme as the cause of his fall. If you read Paradise Lost Adam takes the fruit because he cannot bear not to join his woman in exile when God finds out and therefore he sacrifices himself for his woman and as Milton states Woman earns her name as "woe unto man."

Obviously not a perfect analogy but I gave it some credence upon some reflection.

[Noble Ire]

For the record, Luminara Unduli and Adi Gallia also make brief apperances.

[JediMaster415]

If I may ask: where did the idea that Aalya was the only Jedi to go down without a fight? If I remember the movie, only Ki-Adi-Mundi put up anything close to a fight.

On-topic: If Padme had taken up a blaster, who was she going to fight? The Clonetroopers? The Jedi? Palpatine? Anakin? All possibilities result in her death and she would be an irresponsible mother by taking her children with her.

She fights, she dies and there is no OT. Or she becomes a Kira Nerys clone.

On the other female Jedi, I saw Lumianra Unduli, Adi Galia and Barris Offee.

[Stravo]

On the other female Jedi, I saw Lumianra Unduli, Adi Galia and Barris Offee.

In anything other than a cameo?

I guess that's the annoyance, any scene of substance had male or alien Jedi in it.

[Noble Ire]

Barris Offee

Really? Where?

By the way, both Plo Koon and Adi had little chance to fight back, considering Plo was fired on at close range by his wingmen, even though he did evade a bit, and Adi was just blown to hell on her speeder, by her wingmen again.

[Noble Ire]

On the other female Jedi, I saw Lumianra Unduli, Adi Galia and Barris Offee.

In anything other than a cameo?

I guess that's the annoyance, any scene of substance had male or alien Jedi in it.

I'm really hoping that the Delegation scene that will hopefully make it into the DVD gives Mon Mothma some lines.

[JediMaster415]

I can't really remember because I always confuse her and Luminara. I know I saw both of them in the movie, though. I remember seeing one of them on Kashyyyk and another was on a different planet so I know they weren't the same one. Maybe on Utapau or with Ki-Adi? Mostly in the background so you actually have to know them or be looking for Jedi.

I'll have to rewatch the movie, only seen it twice. But it's only like a two second shot.

[Solauren]

What, no women?

Wookie woman look just like the men!

[Vympel]

For the record, Luminara Unduli and Adi Gallia also make brief apperances.

No, that was Stass Allie who got killed on the RotJ speeder bike.

Don't ask me why Adi Gallia and Stass Allie look the same, but they're not.

[Vympel]

Databank:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/charac ... index.html

Stass Allie is Adi Gallia's cousin.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/charac ... index.html

Stass Allie's wardrobe consists of recycled elements from Adi Gallia's costume in Episode I. Adi Gallia does appear in the Council sequences of Episode II, though no new footage of that character was shot -- the Council backgrounds consisted of Episode I archival footage. Stass Allie, played by Lily Nyamwasa, is seen in Palpatine's office and in the Geonosian execution arena. Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter reveals that Adi Gallia was at Geonosis as well, but was flying overhead as part of a Jedi starfighter strike force.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

I'm really hoping that the Delegation scene that will hopefully make it into the DVD gives Mon Mothma some lines.

I'm not sure I want this part of the continuity - years of isolated Rebellion before being glued together into the Alliance destroyed.

[Vympel]

They didn't start the Rebel Alliance in RotS anyway. They just spoke vaguely of resistance and forming an organization. Nothing more.

[Darth Raptor]

Welcome to Star Wars, the galaxy-wide sausage fest.

This trend is not confined to RotS, I'm affraid.