Humans: the most powerful in the Force?

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-05-25 01:43pm

Here's what I've been thinking about. We have the Skywalker family, Palpatine , Obi-wan, Mace Windu, Count Dooku, Qui-Gon, all of whom are human. On the other hand, with the exception of Yoda and Maul, all of the non-human force users seem to suck donkey balls (the most notable example of this being Kit Fisto and the other 2 non-human Jedi who lasted all of one second against Palpatine). So, am I correct in assuming that humans have more force-sensitives and are in general more powerful than the other species of the SW galaxy?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-25 01:46pm

Humans greatly outnumber the other sentient species in the galaxy. Humans and near-humans must have been the first wide-scale spacefaring species, and we know they were the first to have hyperdrive.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2005-05-25 01:53pm

Humans have more Jedi representatives because they're the most ubiquitous race in the galaxy. Of course, some races would obviously make better Jedi than others. A Force-sensitive Hutt would still be a big, ungainly slug. Conversely, whatever Yoda is benefits from having a millenia long lifespan in which to master the intricacies of the Force.

Don't forget how many human Jedi bought the farm on Geonosis. The only Jedi to survive Order 66 was Yoda, so I wouldn't take Ayala and Ki-Adi-Mundi's death as evidence of their races making inferior Jedi. As for the arrest scene, Mace Windu survives because he's that much of a badass. Nevermind that Palpatine was toying with him to boot.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-05-25 01:57pm

Darth Raptor wrote: The only Jedi to survive Order 66 was Yoda...

Ummm... Obi Wan?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2005-05-25 01:58pm

*facepalm*

I just woke up.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-05-25 02:04pm

Darth Raptor wrote:
Don't forget how many human Jedi bought the farm on Geonosis. The only Jedi to survive Order 66 was Yoda, so I wouldn't take Ayala and Ki-Adi-Mundi's death as evidence of their races making inferior Jedi. As for the arrest scene, Mace Windu survives because he's that much of a badass. Nevermind that Palpatine was toying with him to boot.

That's my point. Other than Yoda, all of the big-name Jedi have been human. I mean, when 3 Jedi Council Members last less than 10 seconds in a lightsaber duel against a Human Sith Lord, there is a problem.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-05-25 02:23pm

Please forgive this horrible question... But what race are 'Humans' in StarWars? Are they just called... you know, 'Humans' ?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2005-05-25 02:26pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Please forgive this horrible question... But what race are 'Humans' in StarWars? Are they just called... you know, 'Humans' ?

Yes.

Glimmervoid · Post by **Glimmervoid** » 2005-05-25 02:29pm

fgalkin wrote:
Darth Raptor wrote:
Don't forget how many human Jedi bought the farm on Geonosis. The only Jedi to survive Order 66 was Yoda, so I wouldn't take Ayala and Ki-Adi-Mundi's death as evidence of their races making inferior Jedi. As for the arrest scene, Mace Windu survives because he's that much of a badass. Nevermind that Palpatine was toying with him to boot.
That's my point. Other than Yoda, all of the big-name Jedi have been human. I mean, when 3 Jedi Council Members last less than 10 seconds in a lightsaber duel against a Human Sith Lord, there is a problem.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

The was a second of yoda's species on the counsel in TPM called yaddle (he was 477 years old). Also since we only see yoda's species in the Jedi order and never in the street I think its safe to assume that they are a lot less of them than humans. This would mean that yoda's species has a far higher percentage of strong force users than humans.

Changed the mistake was not thinking about what I was typing.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-25 02:38pm

TFM called yaddle (he was 477 years old).

she (Yaddle is female) and it's TPM (the Phamton menace)

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-05-25 02:47pm

I wouldn't underestimate alien Jedi with extended lifespans. Yoda has 800 years to explore and train with the Force while Anakin and Palpatine would only have a 70-100 year window (sans immortality of course)

Then again, humans seem to catch up, match and in some instances surpass most force users so you have to wonder just why having an 800 year headstart doesn't make Yoda a MONSTER force user as opposed to say Mace whose only been doing it for like 40 years?

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-05-25 02:50pm

But she's clearly not as powerful as Yoda, or we would have seen more of her. Probably another redshirt Jedi, is she.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-25 02:50pm

Yoda may have only average mere potential, but such knowledge and experience that he's brilliant; meanwhile Mace and Palpatine are just exceptionally gifted from birth.

MrAnderson · Post by **MrAnderson** » 2005-05-25 02:52pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Yoda may have only average mere potential, but such knowledge and experience that he's brilliant; meanwhile Mace and Palpatine are just exceptionally gifted from birth.

Except that when they do a Midi scan of Anakin they are amazed that he has more than even Yoda.

Which suggests that Midi count is at least partially linked to Jedi strength (a theory the Jedi seem to use and they would be the ones easily able to verify it) and that Yoda is Yoda not just because of age and experience but also because of raw force ability.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-05-25 02:54pm

Stravo wrote:I wouldn't underestimate alien Jedi with extended lifespans. Yoda has 800 years to explore and train with the Force while Anakin and Palpatine would only have a 70-100 year window (sans immortality of course)

Then again, humans seem to catch up, match and in some instances surpass most force users so you have to wonder just why having an 800 year headstart doesn't make Yoda a MONSTER force user as opposed to say Mace whose only been doing it for like 40 years?

Exactly. You have an ancient creature like Yoda equal to a 60 year old Sith Lord, if not in experience then in sheer raw power. Why? Is it because humans are stronger in the Force than Yoda's species? What would Palpatine with 800 years of experience be like?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2005-05-25 03:00pm

Lord Revan wrote:
TFM called yaddle (he was 477 years old).
she (Yaddle is female) and it's TPM (the Phamton menace)

Quality fix!

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-25 03:07pm

MrAnderson wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Yoda may have only average mere potential, but such knowledge and experience that he's brilliant; meanwhile Mace and Palpatine are just exceptionally gifted from birth.
Except that when they do a Midi scan of Anakin they are amazed that he has more than even Yoda.

Which suggests that Midi count is at least partially linked to Jedi strength (a theory the Jedi seem to use and they would be the ones easily able to verify it) and that Yoda is Yoda not just because of age and experience but also because of raw force ability.

And how do you know that midichlorians are not caused by general ability, acquired or innate? It could work just as well that "Holy shit this untrained slave kid has more midichlorians than Yoda who has been growing in the Force for 800 years."

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-25 03:08pm

fgalkin wrote:
Stravo wrote:I wouldn't underestimate alien Jedi with extended lifespans. Yoda has 800 years to explore and train with the Force while Anakin and Palpatine would only have a 70-100 year window (sans immortality of course)

Then again, humans seem to catch up, match and in some instances surpass most force users so you have to wonder just why having an 800 year headstart doesn't make Yoda a MONSTER force user as opposed to say Mace whose only been doing it for like 40 years?
Exactly. You have an ancient creature like Yoda equal to a 60 year old Sith Lord, if not in experience then in sheer raw power. Why? Is it because humans are stronger in the Force than Yoda's species? What would Palpatine with 800 years of experience be like?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

God.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2005-05-25 04:59pm

It is possible Humans are more powerfull because there are more of them. Essentially the force is generated by all living beings and permeats all of the Galaxy. Force users are able to channel all of the force, however that generated by members of the same species could be easier to channel.

Perhaps this is a very dumb annalogy, but if Dragon Ball Z Spirit Bombs only worked with the life energies of equal or similar species. A Human or Sayian (almost the same thing really, they are biologically compatible) in the SW Galaxy would be able to create the largest Spirit Bomb.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-05-25 05:07pm

fgalkin wrote:
Stravo wrote:I wouldn't underestimate alien Jedi with extended lifespans. Yoda has 800 years to explore and train with the Force while Anakin and Palpatine would only have a 70-100 year window (sans immortality of course)

Then again, humans seem to catch up, match and in some instances surpass most force users so you have to wonder just why having an 800 year headstart doesn't make Yoda a MONSTER force user as opposed to say Mace whose only been doing it for like 40 years?
Exactly. You have an ancient creature like Yoda equal to a 60 year old Sith Lord, if not in experience then in sheer raw power. Why? Is it because humans are stronger in the Force than Yoda's species? What would Palpatine with 800 years of experience be like?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

The midi count may represent a point of diminishing returns for the Jedi and Sith alike. If so, advancing beyond that point would take progressively longer and/or be harder the farther you go.

It would be in subtlety and understanding, not raw power where Yoda's advantage would be most evident. Mace Windu is a combat monster specializing in that particular application of the Force.