Norwegian minesweeper burns

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-20 03:56pm

Europe's navies have not had much luck of late. Its sounding like this craft is going to be a total loss.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local ... eID=439179

Pic of a sister vessel followed by the KNM Orkla on fire.

I also stole this more recent summery of what's know from another board

"At around 7am local time, a fire broke out by the lifting-fans near the engine-room of the Norwegian Alta-class air-cushion catamaran minesweeper KNM Orkla. MAYDAY was immediately radioed, and civilian vessels were soon on the spot, immediately evacuating 26 of the 33 strong crew. The fire took only minutes to spread to the bridge. The CO and six others remained onboard to fight the fire. As the minesweeper took part of the Norwegian naval excercise Flotex 02, which involved the majority of the Norwegian navy, it was possible to dispatch a number of naval vessels to the area, including three MTBs keeping the area clear of civilian traffic and establishing a safe-zone, the MTB-force tender KNM Valkyrien, the frigate KNM Bergen, acting as command-ship for the rescue- and firefighting-operation, and in time the large coastguard-vessel KV Svalbard.

At around 8am it was believed that the fire was under control, but sometime around 10am, the fire flared up again, much more intensive than before, and it became necessary to evacuate the remaining seven crewmembers and continue firefighting from the other ships. The fire proved impossible to put out, as it had spread to the glass-fibre hull itself, and in time the fire spread to the entire ship. At around 3 pm the navy had given up hope of saving the ship, and the burning hulk was moved to a location with shallow water (rouhgly 25 metres/82 feet) - it is now believed that the vessel may well sink during the night, and it is considered desirable to be able to raise the wreck if that happens; the navy wishes both to examine the wreck for any faults native to the class, and to see if there is any reusable equipment.

The safe-zone around the hulk has been extended to one nautical mile, as the ship carries 1500 20mm rounds and 4000 12.7mm MG-rounds, which apparently are cooking off - numerous small explosions have been reported. The ships fueltanks, reportedly holding around 60 tons of Marine Diesel Oil, are also on fire, and the nvay has decided to let this burn - there are several fish-farms in the area, which will be hit hard if the fuel-oil leaks, so it is considered better to just let it burn out. The hulk was still reported as burning at midnight, Norwegian time."

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-11-20 03:58pm

Oh dear......<ROFL at the sad state of Europe's navies> would have been funnier it was a French ship

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-20 04:05pm

Mike_6002 wrote:Oh dear......<ROFL at the sad state of Europe's navies> would have been funnier it was a French ship

The French don’t have fires, they lose battleships on rocks off major port's whose waters they've had time to chart for hundreds of years.

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-11-20 04:07pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Mike_6002 wrote:Oh dear......<ROFL at the sad state of Europe's navies> would have been funnier it was a French ship
The French don’t have fires, they lose battleships on rocks off major port's whose waters they've had time to chart for hundreds of years.

ROFL LOL, ah the Daradalains Operation (Can't spell) during WWI, even funnier if you think about it

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-11-20 04:09pm

Looks like the superstructure is gone. Is the entire thing made of fiberglass?

I dont think Ive ever seen fiberglass burn. What happens does it melt like plastics?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-20 04:19pm

Mike_6002 wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
Mike_6002 wrote:Oh dear......<ROFL at the sad state of Europe's navies> would have been funnier it was a French ship
The French don’t have fires, they lose battleships on rocks off major port's whose waters they've had time to chart for hundreds of years.
ROFL LOL, ah the Daradalains Operation (Can't spell) during WWI, even funnier if you think about it

No warships where wrecked in the Dardanelles operation, and the French did quite well there, espically considering the caliber of the shore batteries there ships which where initaly in the front rank faced.

I was refering to the battleship France which foundered in Quiberon bay as few miles west of St. Nazaire 1922 after hitting an uncharted rock. Ironically St. Nazaire was also where she was built.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-20 04:21pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:Looks like the superstructure is gone. Is the entire thing made of fiberglass?

I dont think Ive ever seen fiberglass burn. What happens does it melt like plastics?

I don't know if it burns at the temperatures in question, anything will burn if you get it hot enough, that what makes C-4 so effective against steel. However it does break apart and melt under a couple hundred degrees IIRC.

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-11-20 04:23pm

No warships where wrecked in the Dardanelles operation, and the French did quite well there, espically considering the caliber of the shore batteries there ships which where initaly in the front rank faced.

I was refering to the battleship France which foundered in Quiberon bay as few miles west of St. Nazaire 1922 after hitting an uncharted rock. Ironically St. Nazaire was also where she was built.

Oh....talk about Irony here, still ROFL

against the French, and I repsect the Norwegians more than I will repsect the French, the Norwegians Oslo class frigates are good ships for there size

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-20 04:56pm

That sucks. The European navies are losing a lot of respect. Well, as much as you can lose from the low point you start out from.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2002-11-20 05:10pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:Looks like the superstructure is gone. Is the entire thing made of fiberglass?

I dont think Ive ever seen fiberglass burn. What happens does it melt like plastics?

Probably so...most older minesweepers were constructed of wood (so as not to attract those pesky mines with metallic hulls), and newer one's are fiberglass.

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2002-11-20 06:09pm

At least no one was hurt in the incident and the Norwegians have money to replace the lost ship. This incident alone or any of the recent naval-related things don't represent the current status of the European navies.

Mike_6002, if you think otherwise, then you are a silly bugger. The next time when an ultra-modern American attack sub of the Los Angeles class fails again to detect a 'stealth-equipped' Japanese fishing boat and collides with it, I'll ROFL at your piss poor Navy.

EDIT: Argh, you're not apparently from USofA. Still, I hope you get the point!

About the Frenchies: why do you hate them so much? I've never personally met an annoying, self-centered frog as the stereotype goes. What does it matter if they've had poor success in the majority of their military conflicts of the early 20th century? Don't diss the frogs (too much)!

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2002-11-20 06:13pm

Its the Quebecers, if you live in the same country as them, all frogs are considered evil.

Hyperion · Post by **Hyperion** » 2002-11-20 06:20pm

the material that the fiberglas is set in (forgot the name of the stuff, man my memory sucks), is rather flammable.

btw, that ship is very much a write off, i wonder if it was an exhaust leak that did it though, that close to the engines it's have to be that or an electrical problem. it also sounds like the on board fire suppression systems were not up to par for handling a shipboard fire.

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-11-20 06:24pm

Oberleutnant wrote:At least no one was hurt in the incident and the Norwegians have money to replace the lost ship. This incident alone or any of the recent naval-related things don't represent the current status of the European navies.

Mike_6002, if you think otherwise, then you are a silly bugger. The next time when an ultra-modern American attack sub of the Los Angeles class fails again to detect a 'stealth-equipped' Japanese fishing boat and collides with it, I'll ROFL at your piss poor Navy.

EDIT: Argh, you're not apparently from USofA. Still, I hope you get the point!

About the Frenchies: why do you hate them so much? I've never personally met an annoying, self-centered frog as the stereotype goes. What does it matter if they've had poor success in the majority of their military conflicts of the early 20th century? Don't diss the frogs (too much)!

WWI, WWII poor preformance, and I get this information from angry tourist coming back from France, I have no repsect for them

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2002-11-20 06:26pm

KNM Orkla (in a slightly better shape)

Some information: http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/oksoy/

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2002-11-20 06:31pm

Mike_6002 wrote:WWI, WWII poor preformance

What does it matter now? We are living in the 21st century. If you want to see how capable their military is nowadays, look at more recent conflicts such as the Gulf War, Kosovo or their opreations in Africa.

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-11-20 06:33pm

Oberleutnant wrote:
Mike_6002 wrote:WWI, WWII poor preformance
What does it matter now? We are living in the 21st century. If you want to see how capable their military is nowadays, look at more recent conflicts such as the Gulf War, Kosovo or their opreations in Africa.

Nothing but live fire exersices, Ops in Africa WTF????? I'm in Canada, we don't get that news, please do tell me..........

Hyperion · Post by **Hyperion** » 2002-11-20 06:35pm

a pretty cool looking ship actually.

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2002-11-20 07:03pm

Mike_6002 wrote:
Oberleutnant wrote:
Mike_6002 wrote:WWI, WWII poor preformance
What does it matter now? We are living in the 21st century. If you want to see how capable their military is nowadays, look at more recent conflicts such as the Gulf War, Kosovo or their opreations in Africa.
Nothing but live fire exersices, Ops in Africa WTF????? I'm in Canada, we don't get that news, please do tell me..........

"Nothing but live fire excerises" just proves that the modern French military is that weak compared other NATO-countries. The French troops have operated in several places in Africa. Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Somalia and Zaire to name a few. The French also performed quite well in Bosnia from what I've heard.

Hyperion wrote:a pretty cool looking ship actually.

Yeah, it seems like a nifty design. Too bad she suffered such a cruel fate. I think that this is not the first time when the 'cods' lose a naval ship in an accident.

Hyperion · Post by **Hyperion** » 2002-11-20 07:15pm

some of the coolest looking (and sometimes best performing) ships in history have met some of the most gruesome fates.

though at least none of the crew went down with her.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-20 07:17pm

Oberleutnant wrote:At least no one was hurt in the incident and the Norwegians have money to replace the lost ship. This incident alone or any of the recent naval-related things don't represent the current status of the European navies.

Mike_6002, if you think otherwise, then you are a silly bugger. The next time when an ultra-modern American attack sub of the Los Angeles class fails again to detect a 'stealth-equipped' Japanese fishing boat and collides with it, I'll ROFL at your piss poor Navy.

EDIT: Argh, you're not apparently from USofA. Still, I hope you get the point!

About the Frenchies: why do you hate them so much? I've never personally met an annoying, self-centered frog as the stereotype goes. What does it matter if they've had poor success in the majority of their military conflicts of the early 20th century? Don't diss the frogs (too much)!

They have the money but the people in charge of it are worse the British when it comes to allotting it. Currently the navy is buying a class of missile boats, which have zero military value, but there construction will keep a yard open. The result is something like a 100 million going down the drain.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-20 07:41pm

Oberleutnant wrote:
Mike_6002 wrote:
Oberleutnant wrote: What does it matter now? We are living in the 21st century. If you want to see how capable their military is nowadays, look at more recent conflicts such as the Gulf War, Kosovo or their opreations in Africa.
Nothing but live fire exersices, Ops in Africa WTF????? I'm in Canada, we don't get that news, please do tell me..........

"Nothing but live fire excerises" just proves that the modern French military is that weak compared other NATO-countries. The French troops have operated in several places in Africa. Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Somalia and Zaire to name a few. The French also performed quite well in Bosnia from what I've heard.

There tactics in the Gulf war where beyond awful. The airforce did okay though. Its Mirage 2000N loss over Bosnia was really luck of the draw even though oppsition was very light and the strikes heavy. Still not good to lose your brand new nuclear bomber to a SA-7..

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-11-20 08:24pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:They have the money but the people in charge of it are worse the British when it comes to allotting it. Currently the navy is buying a class of missile boats, which have zero military value, but there construction will keep a yard open. The result is something like a 100 million going down the drain.

Ahh yes, the stealthy missile boat that has no guardrails and kicks up so much seaspray that a blind radar operator could see it.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-11-20 09:47pm

Well, I looked around on the net for some info on fiberglass boats burning. All I really found is that it burns hot and it kinda nasty, but I think that was a given. *shrug*

Its just good that nobody was hurt.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-20 09:53pm

More news: The wreck has capsized and the fire seems to have burned out but it is slowly sinking. Evidently the smoke being given off contained chlorine-gas and cyanide-gas. Sounds like some fun stuff burning onboard.