Obi Wan had his own affair?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-05-25 02:24pm

I was perusing the Visual Dictionary today at B&N and saw in the databank entry for Obi Wan that he had his own affair with a Jedi Knight but no other information on it other than it was a deep secret. Wow. Perhaps the Jedi Order much like the Roman Catholic preisthood is riddled with such affairs and this monolithic front of "We just don't do that." is exactly that -a front.

Also his entry stated that one of the reasons why he is the premier swordmaster of the Order - Form Serusa? Supposedly the practioners of this form 'place themselves in the eye of the storm." - is because he learned audacity from Anakin. I don't know about you but Padawan Kenobi was a pretty audacious guy taking on a Sith Lord and his flashy pinache moves.

Drunk Monkey · Post by **Drunk Monkey** » 2005-05-25 02:29pm

Yea Obi and many other Jedi had affairs. The Jedi are supposed to be celibate hard for anybody and there were thousands of Jedi at their height so plenty of affairs going on in the order presumably. (makes you wonder if yadlle was yodas hoe)

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2005-05-25 02:31pm

Um, are Jedi supposed to be celibate? I thought they just weren't supposed to have relationships.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-05-25 02:34pm

Darth Raptor wrote:Um, are Jedi supposed to be celibate? I thought they just weren't supposed to have relationships.

Whatever it was Obi Wan wasn't supposed to be doing it.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-05-25 02:37pm

It is attachment that is forbidden. Note that Obi-Wan "loves Anakin like a brother" in his own words and Qui-Gon clearly regards Obi-Wan with affection and no one says anything negative about either relationship. It seems that caring about someone is fine with the Jedi, obsessively worrying if they will die in childbirth is not.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-25 02:46pm

is just me or does the Jedi policy on affairs seem to bit like the "don't ask, don't tell" policy US military has with homosexuals.

EDIT: though it would be to see what would Obi-Wan do if some other Jedi catched him this unnamed Jedi.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-05-25 02:56pm

Lord Revan wrote:is just me or does the Jedi policy on affairs seem to bit like the "don't ask, don't tell" policy US military has with homosexuals.

I would have to agree with that. I mean it is blindingly obvious that Anakin is in love with Padme in AOTC - so much so that Obi Wan cuations Anakin right as they meet.

Yet no one seems to bother him about it later and Obi Wan must know something is up - he's worried about Anakin so he goes to Padme. That's something you do when you're worried about a friend and you go to their girlfriend or wife not just some acquiantence, and he doesn't seem surprised that Anakin is the father so you have wonder just how hard are the Jedi looking over each other's shoulders.

They seem to know when another jedi is preoccupied or thoughts dwelling on someone - ie. Mace and Yoda right away felt Anakin's bond to his mom yet no one felt Anakin's bond to Padme?

I think there is a definate look the other way deal within the Jedi.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-25 03:23pm

I forget if it was Luminara or Shaak Ti, but there was a hint of affection that Obi Wan had with some other Jedi, but it came across to me as a 'Well, if we weren't Jedi, maybe...' kind of thing, not an actual affair.

I don't know of any sources that actually depict him having an actual relationship with a woman.

I tend to think of him as a permavirgin.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-25 03:26pm

Stravo wrote:Yet no one seems to bother him about it later and Obi Wan must know something is up - he's worried about Anakin so he goes to Padme. That's something you do when you're worried about a friend and you go to their girlfriend or wife not just some acquiantence, and he doesn't seem surprised that Anakin is the father so you have wonder just how hard are the Jedi looking over each other's shoulders.

the novelization goes gretter detail in it and Obi-Wan knew pretty much everything (but pretented he didn't)

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2005-05-25 04:16pm

Well we have GL's comments that the are not celibate. So I would imagine that as long as you keep it under control and those possesive feelings then know will call you on it.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2005-05-25 09:36pm

Heh. I remember after seeing TPM for the first time, I figured that Qui-Gon must have spent the night with Shmi, giving rise to Uncle Owen. AOTC proved me wrong, though.

wilfulton · Post by **wilfulton** » 2005-05-25 09:47pm

I'm probably going out on a limb here, but it seems to me like the Jedi believe in upholding the natural balance of things. They seem to have a high regard for nature (as well they should since the force isn't manufactured in a factory).

Yet love and attachment are the most natural parts of the human existence! So why would a Jedi be denied these things? Kind of short sighted in its own right if you ask me.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-05-26 12:01am

The gal in question is Siri Tachi; she and Kenobi almost ran off with each other in their teens but were stopped by Qui-Gon. Appatently they still retained feelings for one another and had some sort of on again, off again thing throughout the years. Tachi died during the clone wars.

Jedi pairings seem to be pretty common. Quinlan Vos admits to a sexual reltionship with another jedi when he was in his teens; during the Battle of Jabiim, two padawans in their late teens/early twenties are very open about being in love with one another.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2005-05-26 01:32am

Petrosjko wrote:
I don't know of any sources that actually depict him having an actual relationship with a woman.

Why does it have to be a woman?

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2005-05-26 02:37am

Petrosjko wrote:I forget if it was Luminara or Shaak Ti, but there was a hint of affection that Obi Wan had with some other Jedi, but it came across to me as a 'Well, if we weren't Jedi, maybe...' kind of thing, not an actual affair.

I don't know of any sources that actually depict him having an actual relationship with a woman.

The Visual Dictionary is a canon source, and it plainly speaks of a romantic relationship. I haven't got the thing in front of me, but I am pretty sure it mentions his romantic interest as a female jedi as well.

Petrosjko wrote:I tend to think of him as a permavirgin.

Since we have a canon source referring to a romantic/sexual relationship of his with a female jedi, then clearly that perception is incorrect.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-05-26 03:52am

In that aspect, the Jedi Code seems to be honored more in the breach than in the observance. When it comes down to it, the Jedi tend to come down hard over the matter only when they want to.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-13 07:19pm

(to avoid duplicating the topic, here's my reply!)

Okay, is the Visual Dictionary the first/only source for this "relationship"?

I'm curious if this is another one of those "retconned" relationships they had for Jedi prior to the situation in AOTC.

It would have been interesting for Anakin to bring up this when Obi-Wan is criticizing his relationship with Padme, or perhaps in the "jealousy" angle played up later. That is if Anakin even knows about it. Or perhaps Palpatine knows and would tell him, etc.

I think like the "Immaculate Conception/Virgin Birth" confusion, some folks aren't understanding these religious conventions.

"Celibacy" just means "marriage not allowed." This might seem like nitpicking, but marriage has a lot of legal baggage tied up with it.

Clerics at least in Catholicism tend to take vows of "chastity, poverty and obedience" (though it may vary with the order, you get the idea). A vow of poverty would mean you only get whatever property the church/abbey whatever has to loan you, and when you kick off it doesn't go to your family, it goes back to the Order. The "chastity" vow means no sex. So that would rule out the "well you can't get hitched, but one night stands or visiting hookers are okay or fool around all you want."

The Lucas interview shows this confusion. The Jedi could be celibate but still not have a problem with Jedi having sex unattached (though you'd think all the emotional baggage would come into play, and the idea of seeking pleasure woudl be against their ideals, but whatever). The Jedi could have vows of chastity or not.

But I mean either it's okay for the Jedi to have sex and they do, or it's just marriage that's forbidden. The idea of them winking at such relationships or just covering them up to avoid scandal seems plausible enough, but I'm curious as to what the intention was.

It seems that Lucas just came up with this idea out of the blue in order to have a vehicle for Anakin's fall ("forbidden love") but the EU authors knew nothing of this so they started matching people up with marriages, dating romances, etc. prior to this, and these had to be retconned. So I wonder if in Obi-Wan's case, this is what happened? Otherwise why toss it in if it's never mentioned?

Mr. T · Post by **Mr. T** » 2005-06-13 07:28pm

Wow, this is actually a bit shocking. I suppose that for all there skill with the force, jedi's are regular people afterall whom I'm sure the Corucuscant ladies are all over. I mean, who wouldn't like to be able to brag about the fact that they fucked a jedi? I suppose that the jedi council/other jedi's must have just looked the other way towards these relationships out of fear of losing the respectability of the jedi order, which as many have pointed out, sounds eerily familiar.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-13 10:49pm

Well if they are so big on controlling their emotions, couldn't lust also be controlled? Guess not!

Fear, Anger Agression, hate, the Dark Side are they! Horniness? Perfectly fine, that is, young Padawan!

Perhaps this is Lucas again trying to resonate with current events but I doubt it (2002 was the year the clergy sex abuse scandal broke in the American Catholic Church, a coincidence, unless you count those gay priests that got caught in the 80's).

I wonder if the Jedi Code has anything against the other "seven deadly sins." I mean we haven't seen any "fat jedi" so maybe gluttony is okay too. Just don't get too attached to the food you're eating... or something.

I know in some strains of Buddhist thought it's believed that if you indulge seriously in certain passions to "release" that desire you can achieve enlightenment that way (the origin of so-called "tantric sex"). The idea being you use up those urges and you can go back to your meditation without the distraction... if I understand it correctly. Maybe the Jedi are similar?

SVPD · Post by **SVPD** » 2005-06-14 08:28am

I'd be willing to bet that Jedi get enough exercise to not get fat, and I'm sure SW medical science is sufficiently advanced to treat such things as hypothyroidism, which make weight loss difficult.

As to the "emotions" thing, I don't see lust as an inherently harmful or violent emotion in the way of fear, anger, or hatred. All of those call for the destruction of the object of the emotion, lust does not. There's potential for misunderstandings, but the emotion is not harmful by itself.

I think the "no marriage" thing might also be a prohibition based on the time one devotes to Jedi service. Being married might not leave enough time to do either commitment justice.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-06-14 10:08am

In Yoda: Dark Rendevous the Reltionship is brought up and Obi Wan states somethng to the effect that he was young and 'we all do it" at one time or another and it passes as you become more mature and better trained.

The Jedi are not Vulcans. The no attachment clause is simply saying that you cannot play favorites and feel a sense of loss when someone leaves your life. Not that you can't get your swerve on, merely that you can't get your swerve on and fall in love. So actually the Jedi are encouraged to be players.

Can you imagine the Player Hater's Ball in the Jedi Temple?

Mace Windu: "Obi Wan Kenobi....your cloak looks like Geonosis...bombed out and depleted."

Kenobi: "Mace Windu...when you touch yourself at night it's like black on black crime."

Yoda: "Good God, Anakin's momma one large tittie and one small tittie she has. Biggie Smalls we call her."

Anakin: "I'll be retiring for the evening but first let me put Master Yoda's bowl out and I like the way you mushed mouth that line you stroke victim."

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-15 03:37pm

I think it's pretty clear that what's forbidden is the attachment to a loved one could potentially lead to fear, sadness and/or anger intense enough to drive someone right over the edge.

Even if they have meaningless flings all the time, Obi-Wan's relationship must have been a problem because it was becoming something more.

The last time this subject came up, I did mention that being a Jedi must actually have been pretty good, what with such outstanding individuals as Aayla Secura and Barriss Offee about...

Btw has anyone read the Databank entry on Siri Tachi? It was a bit... eh. What source (comic, novel etc) is it from? Doesn't sound like very high canon, since fallen Jedi are supposed to be rare (The Lost Twenty?).
http://www.starwars.com/databank/charac ... index.html

Stravo wrote:Can you imagine the Player Hater's Ball in the Jedi Temple?

Mace Windu: "Obi Wan Kenobi....your cloak looks like Geonosis...bombed out and depleted."
Kenobi: "Mace Windu...when you touch yourself at night it's like black on black crime."
Yoda: "Good God, Anakin's momma one large tittie and one small tittie she has. Biggie Smalls we call her."
Anakin: "I'll be retiring for the evening but first let me put Master Yoda's bowl out and I like the way you mushed mouth that line you stroke victim."

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-15 03:40pm

Kurgan wrote:The Lucas interview shows this confusion. The Jedi could be celibate but still not have a problem with Jedi having sex unattached (though you'd think all the emotional baggage would come into play, and the idea of seeking pleasure woudl be against their ideals, but whatever). The Jedi could have vows of chastity or not.

Did you consider that not having sex might actually cause greater problems?

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2005-06-16 12:09am

Like I said in the other thread on this:

"Go forth and fuck her brains out, my young padawan. Just remember, no cuddling or pillow talk afterwards."

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2005-06-16 04:31am

Cykeisme wrote:Btw has anyone read the Databank entry on Siri Tachi? It was a bit... eh. What source (comic, novel etc) is it from? Doesn't sound like very high canon, since fallen Jedi are supposed to be rare (The Lost Twenty?).
http://www.starwars.com/databank/charac ... index.html

Look up for the author "Jude Watson". From my quick-n-dirty search on google, Siri Tachi is from a few SW books published by Scholastic (i.e. aimed mainly at teen-or-younger audience).