Qui Gon and Anakin

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2005-05-26 09:53pm

I know this has been posted before, but it was posted before ROTS.

If Qui Gon had survived, would Anakin have Turned to the Darkside?

Before, Revenge of the Sith I would have said he would have turned anyways. After watching the way the Jedi Council treated Anakin, which is one of the reasons he turned (not the only reason, but one), I don't think Qui Gon would have stood for it, the way Obi Wan did.

But thats just my 2 cents. Thoughts?

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-26 10:18pm

There's a whole set of factors that added up to cause Anakin's fall to the Dark Side. If Qui-Gon had survived, it may have been enough to prevent his fall, but perhaps not.
I'll give you this much: Qui-Gon was certainly more empathetic and compassionate that most of the other Jedi portrayed in the movies.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-05-26 10:39pm

Bassed on what Obi Wan and Yoda said to Luke, it would seem they did indeed learn the harsh lesson that Anakin presented them. They were far less arrogant and said nothing about forming attachments.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-26 10:44pm

Whatever the case, if Anakin had someone like Aayla Secura has his master, he wouldn't have needed Padme. Win.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-05-26 11:40pm

I think maybe if Qui Gon had lived Anakin might have been worse off as Qui Gon might have been forced to train Anakin in secret rather than sancioned by the council. That's one more secret for ani to have to keep

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-05-26 11:43pm

Isolder74 wrote:I think maybe if Qui Gon had lived Anakin might have been worse off as Qui Gon might have been forced to train Anakin in secret rather than sancioned by the council. That's one more secret for ani to have to keep

Why would he have to train him in secret? He had already made it clear he was going to train Anakin and the council had said it disagreed with his decision, but did not stop him. Qui-Gon would have probably done a better job of helping Anakin with his problems than rote Jedi mantra answers.

In any case, it would have been hard for Qui-Gon to have produced worse results.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-05-26 11:53pm

Cykeisme wrote:Whatever the case, if Anakin had someone like Aayla Secura has his master, he wouldn't have needed Padme. Win.

On the other hand, if Anakin had someone like the Dark Woman as his master, he would have probably fallen that much sooner.

"WTF. Why did I get this bitch as my master? Fuck this shit."

Aayla was also a padawan around the same time Anakin was as well (though I believe she became a knight before him). That doesn't diminish your sentiment however, but I have to wonder if any work would get done. And besides, Quinlan Vos might get jealous.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-27 12:11am

And besides, Quinlan Vos might get jealous.

Dont forget Kit Fisto.
Man, Aayla was quite popular at the temple, wasnt she........

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-05-27 12:14am

Pure Sabacc wrote:
And besides, Quinlan Vos might get jealous.
Dont forget Kit Fisto.
Man, Aayla was quite popular at the temple, wasnt she........

...Not popular enough in the Clone Barracks it seems.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-27 12:17am

Nephtys wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:
And besides, Quinlan Vos might get jealous.
Dont forget Kit Fisto.
Man, Aayla was quite popular at the temple, wasnt she........
...Not popular enough in the Clone Barracks it seems.

At least not after Order 66, but before......
Bly did seem to have a repore with her.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-05-27 12:25am

Pure Sabacc wrote:
And besides, Quinlan Vos might get jealous.
Dont forget Kit Fisto.

Fuck that freak. He can go suck a lightsaber.

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Nephtys wrote:
Man, Aayla was quite popular at the temple, wasnt she........
...Not popular enough in the Clone Barracks it seems.
At least not after Order 66, but before......
Bly did seem to have a repore with her.

That's 'rapport', chief.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-27 12:28am

That's 'rapport', chief.

*Weeps a thousand tears of shame*

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-05-27 01:23am

Imperial Overlord wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:I think maybe if Qui Gon had lived Anakin might have been worse off as Qui Gon might have been forced to train Anakin in secret rather than sancioned by the council. That's one more secret for ani to have to keep
Why would he have to train him in secret? He had already made it clear he was going to train Anakin and the council had said it disagreed with his decision, but did not stop him. Qui-Gon would have probably done a better job of helping Anakin with his problems than rote Jedi mantra answers.

In any case, it would have been hard for Qui-Gon to have produced worse results.

The thing is the council told Qui Gon NOT to train the boy. He seemed the type to do it anyway

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-27 02:19am

She can have my rapport anytime, tbh.

And yeah, Kit Fisto can go suck a lightsaber.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-27 06:47am

Isolder74 wrote:The thing is the council told Qui Gon NOT to train the boy. He seemed the type to do it anyway

Qui Gon: "Fine. I'm leaving. And I'm going to train the boy anyway."
Yoda: "Great. First Dooku, now Qui Gon. Is this lost twenty-"
Mace: "Twenty one."
Yoda: "-thing part of Dooku's training?"

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-27 07:17am

Hrm.. if the council forbade Qui-Gon from training Anakin, why did they reverse their judgment (or at least become less stern in their ruling) later on when Obi-Wan said he was going to? I mean, they already sensed his clouded future and possible danger (if they only knew HOW much danger), and Obi-Wan is even less experienced then Qui-Gon!

Did they allow it out of respect for Qui-Gon's dying wish?

I guess the events come together in Star Wars is an intricate cascade of events that led to darkness.
Well, okay, the prophecy was fulfilled and the Sith were forever destroyed due to the actions of the Chosen One, but only after a lot of hardship.

Stofsk wrote:Aayla was also a padawan around the same time Anakin was as well (though I believe she became a knight before him). That doesn't diminish your sentiment however, but I have to wonder if any work would get done.

I know I'd be busy, but I wouldn't be getting any work done, yeah.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2005-05-27 02:43pm

Cykeisme wrote:Hrm.. if the council forbade Qui-Gon from training Anakin, why did they reverse their judgment (or at least become less stern in their ruling) later on when Obi-Wan said he was going to? I mean, they already sensed his clouded future and possible danger (if they only knew HOW much danger), and Obi-Wan is even less experienced then Qui-Gon!

Did they allow it out of respect for Qui-Gon's dying wish?

I think it was because the Jedi Council got increasingly desperate to make the "Chosen One" prophecy come true to try to set the world to rights again.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-27 03:17pm

What would have changed their mind between their refusal (when Qui-Gon asks) and their acceptance (when Obi-Wan asks, after Qui-Gon's death) to accept Anakin into the order?
It seems to be that the only thing that changed their mind is the fact that it was Qui-Gon's dying wish.

Considering how detached and impartial the Jedi are supposed to be, this seems to add even more credence to the arrogant, hypocritical nature of the Jedi Order that's apparent.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2005-05-27 10:50pm

Cykeisme wrote:What would have changed their mind between their refusal (when Qui-Gon asks) and their acceptance (when Obi-Wan asks, after Qui-Gon's death) to accept Anakin into the order?
It seems to be that the only thing that changed their mind is the fact that it was Qui-Gon's dying wish.

Considering how detached and impartial the Jedi are supposed to be, this seems to add even more credence to the arrogant, hypocritical nature of the Jedi Order that's apparent.

You mean besides the fact that one of their masters was slain by a Sith lord and that this boy was prophised to destroy the sith. I know Maul revealed himself before Anakin's disapporval, but, and its been a long times since I've really sat down and watches this movie, I don't think they seem so sure that it was a Sith til after Qui-Gon's demise.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2005-05-27 11:30pm

Cykeisme wrote:She can have my rapport anytime, tbh.

And yeah, Kit Fisto can go suck a lightsaber.

*growl* Do NOT bad-mouth Kit Fisto, man. He's one of the very few Old Republic Jedi who actually lived up to expectations in a fight, and he was pretty damn charismatic to boot.

Not to mention, he helped save the Mon Calamari, and that gets him some extra points in my book.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-28 04:30pm

Anarchist Bunny wrote:You mean besides the fact that one of their masters was slain by a Sith lord and that this boy was prophised to destroy the sith. I know Maul revealed himself before Anakin's disapporval, but, and its been a long times since I've really sat down and watches this movie, I don't think they seem so sure that it was a Sith til after Qui-Gon's demise.

Ah, good point there bunny, you're right.

I had considered the prophecy of the Chosen One that would destroy the Sith, but I thought they already knew that Maul was a Sith Lord. It's apparent now that they were skeptical at first.
When the characters first appeared before the council they doubted that the attacker was a Sith Lord, and it took the death of a Jedi Master to convince them he was right. I suppose it also made the Chosen One prophecy more real in their eyes.. hence their acceptance of Anakin.

Well, then I cite the Order's skepticism of Qui-Gon's claims (till after his death) as a sign of arrogance! Har!

Molyneux wrote:*growl* Do NOT bad-mouth Kit Fisto, man. He's one of the very few Old Republic Jedi who actually lived up to expectations in a fight, and he was pretty damn charismatic to boot.

Not to mention, he helped save the Mon Calamari, and that gets him some extra points in my book.

Haha I have nothing against Kit Fisto personally. He does plenty of great stuff in the comics (Kamino etc), and he was cool from the moment he gives that manic grin in the Geonosis arena.

He should've just keep his slimy hands off Aayla

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2005-05-29 10:17am

Ya know I have to think that Anakin wouldn't have felt the need to keep secrets from Qui-gon. Also, I doubt Palpatine would have found it much more difficult to drive a wedge between Anakin and Qui-gon then Annie and Obi.

It obvious that Anakin had formed a very strong bond with Qui-gon. Which is why in the CW vol 1. He tells Obi-wan "Your no Qui-gon Jinn!". Hell Qui-gon was the only one other than Palpatine that ever believed in the boy. Even Obi-wan was against taking the boy on originally, he only doesit out of love for Qui-gon. The duel between Anakin and Obi-wan nearly brought me to tears. How much more emotional impact would a duel between Anakin and Qui-gon have had.

Stofsk wrote:

On the other hand, if Anakin had someone like the Dark Woman as his master, he would have probably fallen that much sooner.

"WTF. Why did I get this bitch as my master? Fuck this shit."

Amen to that. New rule...if your padawan goesto the darkside and becomes a murderous mannical bitch you don't get to train anyone else ever!

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2005-05-29 10:22am

Molyneux wrote:

*growl* Do NOT bad-mouth Kit Fisto, man. He's one of the very few Old Republic Jedi who actually lived up to expectations in a fight, and he was pretty damn charismatic to boot.

Not to mention, he helped save the Mon Calamari, and that gets him some extra points in my book.

I always like Kit, even the silly little grin of his. Plus he gets bonus points cause he was good enough to make the Jedi council, survive Genosis, the clone wars, and lasted much longer against Darth Sidious than either Master Agen Kolar (punked!) or Master Saesee Tiin (punked!).

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-29 11:27am

I liked the novelization's account of Kit Fisto's death, or rather, Anakin thinking about Kit Fisto's death. His head is on Palpatine's table (went flying off and landed there)- it's something along the lines of whether he found death as amusing as he clearly found combat.

BigBeaner · Post by **BigBeaner** » 2005-05-29 01:19pm

The factors or some of the story of Anakin might change but remember Anakin is the chosen one who was destined to bring balance to the force no matter who he was with. I think the clone wars, obi-wan, palpatine and padme expedited it.