Falcon vs. Defiant

[Drunk Monkey]

Here’s the scenario Q is bored so he teleports the Defiant with warp drive disengaged and the Millennium Falcon from the asteroid field scene in TESB with no hyper drive and a piece of shit both must fight to the death or both galaxies are destroyed. Ladies and gentleman place your bets.

[Lord Revan]

the Falcon can defeat a Sovereign class starship under these conditions, the Defiant has no chanses (one bolt from the quad turret has about the same firepower as a Photon torp).

[Jay]

Must we go though this day after day, week after week in a myriad of different guises? In the ESB asteroid scene, the Falcon's shields and quad guns are working just fine IIRC. Therefore is going to be a pwn'dfest.

The falcon's shields will shrug off the phaser hits. The falcon's quad-guns will shred the Defiant clean in two. The main site has the numbers.

I'll put it in plain english:

teh F41c0n pwn's teh F3d n00b5.

[Drunk Monkey]

Must we go though this day after day, week after week in a myriad of different guises? In the ESB asteroid scene, the Falcon's shields and quad guns are working just fine IIRC. Therefore is going to be a pwn'dfest.

The falcon's shields will shrug off the phaser hits. The falcon's quad-guns will shred the Defiant clean in two. The main site has the numbers.

I'll put it in plain english:

teh F41c0n pwn's teh F3d n00b5.

Yes I know that. the reason I chose the Falcon vs. Defiant is that the falcon was week in ESB and yes the rear shields were dead remember that’s why Han went toward Needa’s ISD. The defient being a Starfleet’s first dedicated warship packing a bigger punch then most of the fed’s ships so this argument is viable.

[Lord Revan]

Yes I know that. the reason I chose the Falcon vs. Defiant is that the falcon was week in ESB and yes the rear shields were dead remember that’s why Han went toward Needa’s ISD. The defient being a Starfleet’s first dedicated warship packing a bigger punch then most of the fed’s ships so this argument is viable.

not it is not the Falcon was nowere weak enough (it's weapons, defences and sublight drive were working), nor is the Defiant anywere powerfull enough. Unless you have an ISD(that ignores the Defiant) firing on the Falcon to bring it's shields down nothing the Defiant has will be strong enough.

[Batman]

Urm-the Falcon's quads are fighter scale weapons. That means they're single figure kiloton level. Even the 'Pegasus' calcs put photorps in the three-figure kiloton level.
Since TIE fighters are a credible threat to the Falcon something tells me it doesn't have gigaton level shielding so Defiant may actually have a chance.
Conversely, Defiant seems to be able to take a photon torpedo or two on her shields just fine. Wearing that down with the quads may be a rather lengthy undertaking.
Not that Defiant could ever catch the Falcon, of course.

[Lord Revan]

I'll make this easy

The defiant
Weapons: pulse phaser (kt range) and torp laumcher (kt to low Mt range)
defences:shields (low Mt range) and ablitive armor (non-regenerative).

the Falcon
Weapons: two quad batteries (low kt range)
Defences:shields (1e12 range at least (can take hits from PD gun of an ISD) and strong hull.

[Jay]

Yes I know that. the reason I chose the Falcon vs. Defiant is that the falcon was week in ESB and yes the rear shields were dead remember that’s why Han went toward Needa’s ISD. The defient being a Starfleet’s first dedicated warship packing a bigger punch then most of the fed’s ships so this argument is viable. Rolling Eyes

I don't know about the Falcon, but since the starwars galaxy is technologically stagnant for the most part, and since both the falcon and slave I are both suped up stock-craft of similar size. I figure that the falcons stats are close enough to Slave !'s as stated on the main site:

Main guns: 64000 GW
Sublight acceleration: 2500G
Reactor power: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has power output of 7 billion GW max, and is probably similar)
Shield heat dissipation: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has shield dissipation of 2 billion GW peak, and is probably similar)

The defiant is not even going to dent the fully function front shields. Dude, I love startrek, but you have to admit that in the face of these numbers, the federatons best bet is to dop trou and suck it up.

[Lord Revan]

Urm-the Falcon's quads are fighter scale weapons. That means they're single figure kiloton level. Even the 'Pegasus' calcs put photorps in the three-figure kiloton level.
Since TIE fighters are a credible threat to the Falcon something tells me it doesn't have gigaton level shielding so Defiant may actually have a chance.
Conversely, Defiant seems to be able to take a photon torpedo or two on her shields just fine. Wearing that down with the quads may be a rather lengthy undertaking.
Not that Defiant could ever catch the Falcon, of course.

also the Quads have a lot better ROF then Defiant's launchers (and I don't think that the pulse phasers are more powerfull then photon torps).

[Batman]

Defences:shields (1e12 range at least (can take hits from PD gun of an ISD) and strong hull.

Can take hits from PD gun of an ISD which is intentionally going out of its way as to not destroy it.
If the Falcon has that high a shield capacity why are TIE fighters even a concern?

[Isolder74]

Defences:shields (1e12 range at least (can take hits from PD gun of an ISD) and strong hull.

Can take hits from PD gun of an ISD which is intentionally going out of its way as to not destroy it.
If the Falcon has that high a shield capacity why are TIE fighters even a concern?

Probably because the Ties can attack weak points in the shield while the ISD can not

[Lord Revan]

Can take hits from PD gun of an ISD which is intentionally going out of its way as to not destroy it.
If the Falcon has that high a shield capacity why are TIE fighters even a concern?

PD guns are almost fighter grade (no need for anything more powerfull) and Mike calculates that (power on those guns is 14580 TJ (give or take)). I wouls say that an standard YT-1300 has about same shield power as a Naboo diplomat cruiser (6e12 Mw (peak)) and TIEs have quite good ROF (and we don't know how powerfull the guns are).

[Batman]

Defences:shields (1e12 range at least (can take hits from PD gun of an ISD) and strong hull.

Can take hits from PD gun of an ISD which is intentionally going out of its way as to not destroy it.
If the Falcon has that high a shield capacity why are TIE fighters even a concern?

Probably because the Ties can attack weak points in the shield while the ISD can not

Or maybe it quite simply doesn't have all that much shielding in the first place.

[Drunk Monkey]

Can take hits from PD gun of an ISD which is intentionally going out of its way as to not destroy it.
If the Falcon has that high a shield capacity why are TIE fighters even a concern?

PD guns are almost fighter grade (no need for anything more powerfull) and Mike calculates that (power on those guns is 14580 TJ (give or take)). I wouls say that an standard YT-1300 has about same shield power as a Naboo diplomat cruiser (6e12 Mw (peak)) and TIEs have quite good ROF (and we don't know how powerfull the guns are).

wouldn’t the falcon have higher shields then that Han was a smuggler who modified the Falcon so you’d think the falcon would have better shields then the average YT-1300

[Lord Revan]

wouldn’t the falcon have higher shields then that Han was a smuggler who modified the Falcon so you’d think the falcon would have better shields then the average YT-1300

possibly, but the Falcon's stat change very often so it's better to use a stock YT-1300 then the Falcon itself

Or maybe it quite simply doesn't have all that much shielding in the first place.

if diplomat cruiser (a target few would want to attack) has shield of 6e12 Mw why would freighter have shield that are nowere near that? and the the Falcon's shield didn't go down from just one or two hits (in both ANH cases it took several minutes or PD gun to bring them down)

[Trekdestroyer]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I feel that we all know what the answer is in this scenario. Even with both FTL drives disengadged it does little to flatten the playing field. We all know that Star Wars weapons throw around strong blasts that would work too well against Federation sheilds, which are made to deflect weaker weapons. The fact remains that the Defiant is nothing more than scrap metal in space. The Defiant may be able to launch a small offensive which will probably not even put a scratch on the Falcon. Then you have the possibility that when the Defiant announces that it is going to attack, the crew of the MF will die of laughter.

[Lord Revan]

snip

I would go that far, but the defiant is a lot bigger (120-170 m) compared to the Falcon (20m-40m) and doesn't seem to have very accurate weapons. The Falcon would probaly win .

[Batman]

*Sigh*
Unless we know which power level those guns were set to Mike's firepower figures for them are meaningless.
1. X Wings have single-figure KT firepower.
2. TIEs do NOT wipe the floor with X-Wings.
3. Therefore, we can conclude that TIE fighters have about the same level of firepower.
4. If the Falcon has 6e12 MW of shields that assuming a generous 10 KT for TIE firepower per bolt that works out to the TIEs having to hit in excess of 139,534 times a second to bring its shields down.
How about-no?

[Batman]

if diplomat cruiser (a target few would want to attack) has shield of 6e12 Mw why would freighter have shield that are nowere near that?

Right. Like Leia's ship in ANH didn't?
How about the Naboo have access to the resources of an entire planet whereas Han is a small-time smuggler barely managing to break even most of the time?

[Lord Revan]

*Sigh*
Unless we know which power level those guns were set to Mike's firepower figures for them are meaningless.
1. X Wings have single-figure KT firepower.
2. TIEs do NOT wipe the floor with X-Wings.
3. Therefore, we can conclude that TIE fighters have about the same level of firepower.
4. If the Falcon has 6e12 MW of shields that assuming a generous 10 KT for TIE firepower per bolt that works out to the TIEs having to hit in excess of 139,534 times a second to bring its shields down.
How about-no?

or we could use the sink theory (it's peak, not consant bombarment power), and a TIE has never (IIRC) brought the Falcons shield down in single volley (the YT series and the Naboo cruiser can have high peak shield power, but low steady bombarment shield power as they're not meant to hang around battlefields, but to take hit until they can escape).

[Lord Revan]

Right. Like Leia's ship in ANH didn't?
How about the Naboo have access to the resources of an entire planet whereas Han is a small-time smuggler barely managing to break even most of the time?

not a typical pre clonewars situation or typical GCW situation (Leia protested the attack on the ground that Tantive 4 was diplomat ship (as did the captain), that's not something you would do if attacking diplomatic ship was common practice) and what Han was capable of is irrelevant as he a)didn't buy the Falcon b) had access to the Rebel Alliance resources at that time.

[Batman]

or we could use the sink theory (it's peak, not consant bombarment power), and a TIE has never (IIRC) brought the Falcons shield down in single volley (the YT series and the Naboo cruiser can have high peak shield power, but low steady bombarment shield power as they're not meant to hang around battlefields, but to take hit until they can escape).

You realize that that peak would be 1.39GT/second while the sustained is in the KT to dozens of KT/second level.
That's one hell of a discrepancy.

[Lord Revan]

or we could use the sink theory (it's peak, not consant bombarment power), and a TIE has never (IIRC) brought the Falcons shield down in single volley (the YT series and the Naboo cruiser can have high peak shield power, but low steady bombarment shield power as they're not meant to hang around battlefields, but to take hit until they can escape).

You realize that that peak would be 1.39GT/second while the sustained is in the KT to dozens of KT/second level.
That's one hell of a discrepancy.

true, but normally a YT-1300 or Naboo cruiser ain't take that many hits before they can escape and Falcon's radiators may not have been up specs (it needed constant repair after all).

freighter or diplomat shuttle is gonna need shields to protect it from those enemies that get past the escorts or until it can plot a hyperspace jump.

[Stark]

Don't these scenarios always come down to missiles? Since this MF doesn't (AFAIK) have missiles, it can't easily destroy the ST ship. It's quadguns aren't going to have the punch to quickly destroy the ST ships, so proximity fused torpedoes (if they're accurate enough) may carry the day.

Is it just me, or is this 'Drunk Monkey' fellow always using other peoples' avatars?

[Drunk Monkey]

Don't these scenarios always come down to missiles? Since this MF doesn't (AFAIK) have missiles, it can't easily destroy the ST ship. It's quadguns aren't going to have the punch to quickly destroy the ST ships, so proximity fused torpedoes (if they're accurate enough) may carry the day.

Is it just me, or is this 'Drunk Monkey' fellow always using other peoples' avatars?

There public I believe I just have to go to profile an “select avatar”.