Does the Dark Side inevitably lead to Empire?

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-05-28 07:50pm

Would all Masters of the Dark Side and Sith Lords and whatnot inevitably create a Galactic Empire? I was wondering if ROTJ had ended differently, with a dark jedi (you pick) taking over, but managing to convince most of the Rebels that he's actually a good guy, and he wouldn't create a dictatorship.

For one thing, had the Separatists and Count Dooku succeded, what kind of a government would they have created?

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2005-05-28 07:55pm

I don't think so. Someone belonging to the Dark Side is unquestionably evil, but evil people do not automatically pursue political power.

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2005-05-28 08:29pm

Darth Nihilus wanted to destroy all life in the galaxy. He wanted to destroy not build an empire.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-05-28 08:46pm

Admiral Drason wrote:Darth Nihilus wanted to destroy all life in the galaxy. He wanted to destroy not build an empire.

Darth Nihilus?

You're shitting us, right?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-28 08:49pm

YT300000 wrote:
Admiral Drason wrote:Darth Nihilus wanted to destroy all life in the galaxy. He wanted to destroy not build an empire.
Darth Nihilus?

You're shitting us, right?

What, he's a character from KOTOR 2. So?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2005-05-28 08:58pm

YT300000 wrote:
Admiral Drason wrote:Darth Nihilus wanted to destroy all life in the galaxy. He wanted to destroy not build an empire.
Darth Nihilus?

You're shitting us, right?

Is that any worse than Darth Maul or Darth Sidious? Come on, now. These Sith guys all have ridiculous names which sound like what they do. Maul was a brtual thug, and Sidious was, well, an insidious threat.

Nihilus is par for the course for Lucas productions.

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2005-05-28 09:01pm

Well, it is kind of an obvious name considering his goals.

As for Dooku, I don't think he wanted the whole Republic, or if he did, he could wait a while to get it. Were he acting on his own, I would guess his goal was simply to separate a bunch of worlds from the Republic, then consolidate them into his own personal empire, and maybe try to take over the Republic with them. Of course, he was working with Sidious, so he might have hoped to be granted rulership over the worlds that had been part of the Separatist movement after the war, and maybe hoped to become Sidious' successor.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-28 09:08pm

CDiehl wrote:Well, it is kind of an obvious name considering his goals.

As for Dooku, I don't think he wanted the whole Republic, or if he did, he could wait a while to get it. Were he acting on his own, I would guess his goal was simply to separate a bunch of worlds from the Republic, then consolidate them into his own personal empire, and maybe try to take over the Republic with them. Of course, he was working with Sidious, so he might have hoped to be granted rulership over the worlds that had been part of the Separatist movement after the war, and maybe hoped to become Sidious' successor.

As revealed in the ROTS novelization, he was also a closet Xenophobe who wanted to enslave the non-human races of the galaxy.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-28 09:10pm

Admiral Drason wrote:Darth Nihilus wanted to destroy all life in the galaxy. He wanted to destroy not build an empire.

Would that be the guy nicknamed Darth Kabuki?

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-05-28 09:12pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:
YT300000 wrote:
Admiral Drason wrote:Darth Nihilus wanted to destroy all life in the galaxy. He wanted to destroy not build an empire.
Darth Nihilus?

You're shitting us, right?

What, he's a character from KOTOR 2. So?

A Sith Lord named after nihilism? Well, I guess its not that bad, but it just sounds weird.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-28 09:15pm

A Sith Lord named after nihilism? Well, I guess its not that bad, but it just sounds weird.

If you want BAD Sith names, go to Supershadow's site.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-05-29 02:18am

CDiehl wrote:Well, it is kind of an obvious name considering his goals.

As for Dooku, I don't think he wanted the whole Republic, or if he did, he could wait a while to get it. Were he acting on his own, I would guess his goal was simply to separate a bunch of worlds from the Republic, then consolidate them into his own personal empire, and maybe try to take over the Republic with them. Of course, he was working with Sidious, so he might have hoped to be granted rulership over the worlds that had been part of the Separatist movement after the war, and maybe hoped to become Sidious' successor.

Dooku was Darth Tyrannus. He wants a have a tyrannical reign. Voila.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-05-29 03:02am

C'baoth of Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy was far more interested in power at a small scale; he was uninterested in the galaxy at large.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-05-29 08:55am

In the movies, the primary objective of the Sith was the eradication of the Jedi Order in revenge for the Jedi doing the same to them millenia go. Presumably the Jedi took them out in the past because they were going for galactic domination back then.
So the events in the PT show the Sith completing both objectives in one fell swoop.

Even movie Sith names are pretty funny, if you think about it.. the words from which they're derived are pretty obvious.
Sidious
Maul
Tyranus
Vader.

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2005-05-29 09:15am

Pure Sabacc wrote:
As revealed in the ROTS novelization, he was also a closet Xenophobe who wanted to enslave the non-human races of the galaxy.

From the EU, that's pretty much the case with Palpatine as well.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-05-29 03:09pm

Vader means "father", not invader.

I'm not sure if he actually invades, anyhow.

I think Grievous sounded purposefully-angstful and angry.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-29 03:19pm

Sith name theory (that Sith names (in)something) can't correct as we have canon sith names that make little to no sense with that theory

Darth Maul
Darth Revan
Darth Malak
Darth Brandon
Darth Sion
Darth Nihilus
Darth Traya

and probaly more

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2005-05-29 04:33pm

Uraniun235 wrote:C'baoth of Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy was far more interested in power at a small scale; he was uninterested in the galaxy at large.

Wasn't he bat-shit crazy, though? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-29 04:42pm

Lord Revan wrote:Darth Maul

Named after the weapon.

Darth Revan

Raven. A bird that exists in SW.

Darth Malak

Malak? Not a clue. Maybe from Mal in french.

Darth Brandon

God that's shit.

Darth Sion

Don't know.

Darth Nihilus

Nihilism

Darth Traya

Don't know.

They're not named with an 'in' but they're named after something in all cases.

Glimmervoid · Post by **Glimmervoid** » 2005-05-29 04:45pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Vader means "father", not invader.

I'm not sure if he actually invades, anyhow.

I think Grievous sounded purposefully-angstful and angry.

It means farther in Dutch (I think it was that langue) but invader is the English word it wounds most like and it suits vaders character.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-29 04:53pm

NecronLord wrote:snip

in fact Revan, Malak and Brandon were possibly the real names of those Sith lords, of course all of those named for something, but it not simple as in+something = Darth Something

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-29 05:04pm

Revan, Malak and Bandon (Not Brandon, Rev) were all their actual names.

Darth Traya was implied to be a hereditary title, passed from one to another, for traitors. Betrayer, 'Traya', that one is pretty easy.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-29 05:08pm

Petrosjko wrote:Revan, Malak and Bandon (Not Brandon, Rev) were all their actual names.

Darth Traya was implied to be a hereditary title, passed from one to another, for traitors. Betrayer, 'Traya', that one is pretty easy.

KOTOR website said Brandon, but I'll conceed on this. as these being their real names, IIRC that's what's implied but it's never said to be so.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-05-29 05:15pm

Manus Celer Dei wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:C'baoth of Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy was far more interested in power at a small scale; he was uninterested in the galaxy at large.
Wasn't he bat-shit crazy, though? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Yes, he was crazy, but it still refutes the idea that the Dark Side leads to ambitions towards galactic power.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-29 05:17pm

Uraniun235 wrote:
Manus Celer Dei wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:C'baoth of Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy was far more interested in power at a small scale; he was uninterested in the galaxy at large.
Wasn't he bat-shit crazy, though? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Yes, he was crazy, but it still refutes the idea that the Dark Side leads to ambitions towards galactic power.

except towards the end he did have galactic ambitions